Need Help finding motherboard, bare bones, or prebuilt.

[goldragon_70]

Ok, I have received just a little more then $1600 from a job I did a while ago, and this money I have set aside for building a computer system. I'm at a cross roads of a sort. I have limited amount of money and large need. I'm trying to hold enough money to get a 17' LCD. I'm asking for help for a few reasons. One I've little time because of pressing family matters, and have only been able to put about a day into research for a good cheap option. Two the last motherboard I went with hasn't been the most stable thing (in fact I probably won't buy ASUS this time because of it). Three, I have IDE drives that I will be moving into the new computer which will give me power issues with a dell or HP prebuilt, unless I can get them to put in a bigger power supply. Four I need a dual processor for working with multiple images, occasional 3d imaging and cpu heavy task, and a good graphics card, because: I want to play Oblivion!!!(I'm not planing to play it at the highest resolutions, so I don't need anything supper high end, just something that can play it at 1152 by 864, at a High refresh rate.) And not on an Xbox (can't stand to use a controller for an FPS).

The big questions are should I go with prebuilt with Dell or HP so I can get the warranty and the vista Up grade, go with a prebuilt like this website : http://www.portatech.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=13564&O=3967 (can I overclock it so I can use the 4200 like a 5000?), Or should I try to build my own again and what would be a good mother board that is cheap overclockable and stable with AMD am2?

If I do go to build my own, good suggestions for cheap hardware would be helpful too (Including OS).

 

[goldragon_70]

Has anyone had any experiance with a TFORCE4 AM2? I can't find any reviews on it. The Pentium version was farely stable except when over clocking and then it couldn't handle mutiple stress test, but I haven't found even a hint that they are alike other then in name right now. I'm thinking of using it in a bare bones system here. http://www.cpusolutions.com/8004744CPU/customkititems.asp?kc=D939GBB


Edit: With this site I can get the vista upgrade, but only a one year warranty.

 

[o1die]

I would go with a bundled package, and get a pci-e video card for it later. I just recommended a Lenovo pc from office depot that comes with a 17 inch lcd for $599. The case reminds me of the old IBM, and it should, as IBM sold them the technology for building pc's. Dell also offers similar deals. A dual core amd 3800 is ideal, but I don't know if you can find one in this price range.

 

[g-paw]

If you have $1600 for the computer, I'd go with an Intil 6600 Core 2 Duo and a 19" LCD, you could easily afford it with that much money. More information would help, e.g., do you want SLI, do you have a camcorder and want to capture and burn videos, if so, you'll want a mobo with onboard firewire, are you going to use the onboard audio or a separate audio card?

 

[goldragon_70]

I'm planning to at least have a 4200+ and overclock it ( I figure If I can get a 4600 x2 or OCing a 4200 x2 to 2.4 Ghz, that would be enough power for image editing), but my big problem with the last site I found is figuring out how much power I will need from the graphics, again I want to run oblivion smooth, but I really don't care to run it at the highest resolution, probably only at 1152 by 864 normally. If I can do this cheaply without SLI I will. But I have been considering if I will get a graphics card with built in video capture or get the separate latter. With Intel every were I go I seem to find the Intels with the speed I'm looking for, selling for more in a bundle. The one thing I want to be careful of is the motherboard. I made the mistake of buying a ASUS SK8N last time, and would rather get a motherboard that is stable normally, and can be stable under OCing under slightly high stress.

I do plan on getting or putting 2GB of ram in the system, but the drives are optional. I'm going to research LCD's after checking graphics and see if I can find a better price or better monitor for the same price.

 

[g-paw]

I'm planning to at least have a 4200+ and overclock it, but my big problem with the last site I found is figuring out how much power I will need from the graphics, again I want to run oblivion smooth, but I really don't care to run it at the highest resolution, probably only at 1152 by 864 normally. If I can do this cheaply without SLI I will. But I have been considering if I will get a graphics card with built in video capture or get the separate latter. With Intel every were I go I seem to find the Intels with the speed I'm looking for, selling for more in a bundle.

The reason I suggested the Core Duo is it seems to be faster than the AMD AM2. Not an Intel fanboy, in fact I'm using the older version of X2 4200, just right now Intel seems to be better. I'd check out the CPU comparison chart on tomsharedware.com. Be sure to compare based on what you'll be doing. From what you say it doesn't sound you'd need SLI but I'm not a gamer. Not sure what you mean by a bundle, e.g., do you mean you want to get the mobo, CPU, and memory asssembled when you get it? Definitely less expensive if you put it together yourself. With $1600 you can together a really nice machine especially if you stick with one video card. Right now I'm running the X2 4200 and 7600GT video card in an Antec Sonata II with a 450w PSU and not having any issues but I'm not overclocking. You certainly can put together a really nice machine using the 4200 and likely wouldn't likely take $1600. Suggest once you make your the final decision on the CPU I'd go to newegg.com and do a power search for the mobo. I'd suggest one with 3 PCI slots given most cards, e.g., wireless network card and audio cards are PCI. I also always get one with onboard firewire because I have a camcorder. Basically you need to figure out what features you want. Once you pick the mobo, you decide on the RAM.

 

[gondo]

For $1600 for for an Intel Core 2 DUO 6400. Better than AMD at this point in time even though I am an AMD fan.

Go for an Abit board. Check them out at www.abit-usa.com

Get a 2GB DDRII kit. 2x1GB modules. OCZ or something similar. Get the speed you need to overclock. DDRII 800 seems ot be popular and decently priced.

If you want a good videocard cheap get the Radeon 1950XT 256MB.

I'd get a 19" or 22" widecreen LCD. The prices on those are amazing. a 22" can be had for $300 or less.

For $1600 get a SATA hard drive or 2. Use your older IDE drives in a cage as externals. Great if you have several computers or would use them between yours and office or friends computers.

Definitely build your own. You get manufacturers warranty for each component. You get better quality at an equivalent price point.

For software go Windows Vista. It's supposed to be out at the end of January.

If you have specific questions please post.

 

[goldragon_70]

All right I'm going to try to do the research for building a pc from scratch, and post a few configurations. hummm, Based on the main reasons I will be using the computer; the Intel Core 2 DUO 6400 is a better buy, In fact only in 3d rendering the 4600 x2 kept up, but that will be a rare thing for me to use, and even there the Intel is a steady performer. I still have to do some comparison on the Intel side to see if it would be better to bundle part of the build or not. I still would like to see how the 5200 x2 performs and see if Vista leans in a direction for better performance in processors (I doubt it will change anything.) Sigh, I feared that I might have to go Intel. I hope it force AMD to really improve.

Edit: Oh, yea, right, I forgot to mention the other reason why I'm looking to control the power supply. I'm a nut for upgrading. Even if I turn my old computer into a storage server, and not put these hard drives in the new computer, I still need power for video capture overclocking and two DVD burners, Plus I will probably add more drives to the new computer from the others I have laying around.

 

[goldragon_70]

Any suggestions for a mother board for the Intel Core 2 DUO 6400?

 

[g-paw]

Any suggestions for a mother board for the Intel Core 2 DUO 6400?

Currently this mobo is on my Core DUO wish list. It's not SLI, which I don't intend to use anyway, and it has onboard firewire for video capture as well as 3 PCI slots. While I don't overclock I understand that ASUS is pretty good for overclocking.

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16813131070

 

[gondo]

The Abit AB9 Quad GT is a nice little board. It has a Firewire/USB header, External SATA, HDMI, and only 1 PCI-E 16 for video which means extra normal PCI for additional cards.

 

[goldragon_70]

The Abit AB9 Quad GT is a nice little board. It has a Firewire/USB header, External SATA, HDMI, and only 1 PCI-E 16 for video which means extra normal PCI for additional cards.

http://www.dvhardware.net/article16055.html
http://www.abit-usa.com/news/2007/20070102.php

It has two PCIE x16 from these reviews.

 

[goldragon_70]

Ok,

eather the Gigabyte GA-945PL-S3, Abit AB9 LGA775, or ASUS P5B-E LGA 775.
I want to go with the E6600 processor. With a 2 year exstended plan on both that will be a little under $600. I would like to do some overclocking but that will be in about 2 to 3 years, so I don't need anything exstream in ram. Does anyone have a suggestion on the speed and/or brand. I'm going to research a few graphic cards.

 

[goldragon_70]

OK I might have the configuration.

ASUS P5B-E LGA 775 150.99
Intel E6600 317.99
POWERCOLOR X1950PROXTR512M 259.99
SAMSUNG 940BX Black 19" 5ms DVI LCD Monitor 239.99
Spire SP-ATX-600W™ RockeTeer IV 20/24pin (SATA) 68.98
Pioneer Black DVD Burner 31.99
Rosewill R6426-P BK ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 17.99
Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive 52.99
A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory 229.99
Microsoft Windows XP Home Sp2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista 89.99

Subtotal is $1,459.90
Total with 10% tax is $1,605.89
Leaving about $44.11 for shiping.

What do you think of the set up?

 

[gondo]

Looks like an awesome setup. You hit the budget right on the nose.

I would consider lowering the CPU to a E6400 and upgrading to the X1950 XT. You can easily overclock the 6400 to 6600 speeds with the OEM heatsink.

Other than that I'd go Abit for the board and Seagate on the hard drive but that is just personal preference.

 

[goldragon_70]

I would consider lowering the CPU to a E6400 and upgrading to the X1950 XT. You can easily overclock the 6400 to 6600 speeds with the OEM heatsink.

256mb less of memory, and I'm playing a game and working with photo editing which would be memory intensive. Even though the memory clock is fast. The price is about the same.

Other than that I'd go Abit for the board and Seagate on the hard drive but that is just personal preference.

I'm a wd fan, but I might go seagate. I haven't bout anything yet, I'm still debating on weather to give up the esata.

 

[gondo]

As far as I know the extra RAM on a video card helps with higher refresh rates and resolutions. But other than that the 256MB won't hinder you that much. The 1950XT should still kick a 1950 Pro even if the Pro has 512MB.

With photo editing the extra video ram wont help. A better CPU and more system memory is what's important.

An XT with an overclocked 6400 would beat a 6600 and a Pro hands down no comparison.

Anybody care to elaborate on this?

I like seagate cause over the years I found them to be more reliable and compatible. I've never had a problem with RMAs as well.

Abit is the same deal. I find them to be reliable with few problems. They have wonderful telephone and online support. Their website is the best ammungst motherboard manufacturers. They are prompt with drivers and support. Their website is always up so you can get driver downloads when you want them. They also have the best RMA process in the business.

I find just the opposite with Asus boards, regardless of how good they are. I have nothing but a sour history with Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI. My preference goes to Abit, DFI, eVGA, Soyo, Shuttle, etc... The 3 listes above I try to avoid at all costs.

I am biased somewhat though, so take my Abit and Seagate recommendations with a grain of salt.

 

[goldragon_70]

As far as I know the extra RAM on a video card helps with higher refresh rates and resolutions. But other than that the 256MB won't hinder you that much. The 1950XT should still kick a 1950 Pro even if the Pro has 512MB.

The reson I picked the Power color 1950 pro is that it has the double ram, and is over clocked in both core and ram; and Oblivion seems to do a little better on the cards with 512 mb of ram, but that could be because those cards are the high ends.

An XT with an overclocked 6400 would beat a 6600 and a Pro hands down no comparison.

Weather I change cards or not between the two the price is about the same. I can have the 6600 and over clock it when I feel the need for more power.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102067

I like seagate cause over the years I found them to be more reliable and compatible. I've never had a problem with RMAs as well.

I like Western Digital for the same reason, I've never had one brake down on me.

Abit is the same deal. I find them to be reliable with few problems. They have wonderful telephone and online support. Their website is the best ammungst motherboard manufacturers. They are prompt with drivers and support. Their website is always up so you can get driver downloads when you want them. They also have the best RMA process in the business.

That's good to know.

I find just the opposite with Asus boards, regardless of how good they are. I have nothing but a sour history with Asus, Gigabyte, and MSI. My preference goes to Abit, DFI, eVGA, Soyo, Shuttle, etc... The 3 listes above I try to avoid at all costs.

I have had an Asus motherboard that just keeps getting worse on me, so I know how you feel. I've seen fewer complaints with Gigabyte and MSI, that's why I put an abit and Gigabyte. Really the Abit just a a few less back connections, but I've haven't had a need for them so.....

uote="gondo"]
I am biased somewhat though, so take my Abit and Seagate recommendations with a grain of salt.[/quote]

Don't worry I have been. I have done so before: you were probably talking about the Abit AB9 before and put the Quad GT by accident.

Ya'll have helped me out a great bit so far. Can the votage be kicked up on a 1.8v ram to overclock it, or is that inviting trouble?

 

[Newf]

Just to give my 2 cents, here's what you can do for about $1000, giving you lots of room for a monitor as well as some changes:

Gaming Box (Box only) for around $1000:

Conroe E6300 1.86GHz 2MB Boxed $193+0 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115005

Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 LGA775 965 Conroe $145+6 1/06/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

Corsair XMS2 2x512 DDR2-800 5-5-5-15 1.9v $122 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145566

Chenming CMUI-P-601AEB-0 Blk SOHO Tower w/o PSU $60+16 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811125480
OR Pick your own $75 bare case. Most do not like my choice here...
The CoolerMaster Centurion5 is a popular choice
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119077

Antec TruePowerTrio TP3-550 PSU Active $95-15+0 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817371002

Foxconn FV-N79SM2D2 7900GS 256GDDR3 $190-45+6 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814186003

Asus DVD RW Black DRW1608P3SBLK Retail $33+6 1/02/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827135078

NEC 1.44MB Black Floppy $6+6 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16821152005

WD 2500YS 250GB 7200/16MB SATA $80+6 1/06/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136055

Windows XP Home OEM w/Vista Upgrade coupon $90+5 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16832116169

If my math is right = $1,005

If you are not planning to overclock, then make these trades:
Kingston value DDR2 CL4 1.8v 2x512 KVR533D2N4K2/1G $117+0 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820144152
(Instead of Corsair 1G overclockable -$5)

For an even less expensive motherboard:
MSI P965 Neo-F LGA775 965 ATX Conroe $92+6 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130052
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=P965_Neo-F&class=mb
Hardwarezone Review MSI P965 7/21/06
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1987&cid=6&pg=1
(Instead of Gigabyte DS3 -$53)

This allows you to put some more money into the video card...

These motherboards are also quite popular:

Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 LGA775 965 Conroe $109+6 1/06/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813128017

MSI P965 Platinum LGA775 ATX Conroe $135+6 1/07/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130055

 

[Newf]

One other thing.
Modern Intel chipset boards only have 1 IDE channel (2drives).
You can get an nVidia 650i motherboard like this that has 2 channels:

Asus P5N-E LGA775 nF650i SLI 2IDE ATX Conroe $150+7 1/06/07
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131142
Asus P5N-E Review 12/22/06
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2894

OR, you can simply get a controller card for the extra channels.
Boot from IDE CD (initially) and then the SATA hard drive.
Use your extra drives as additional storage (not to boot from).

Need more IDE channels?
Sabrent PCI-->IDE controller $16+? 11/05/06
http://www.directron.com/sbtrdit.html
SIIG PCI->IDE + USB,1394 $56+6 11/04/06
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16815150028
Addonics ADIDEPXRJ PCI-E-->IDE controller $30+10 11/05/06
http://www.shopaddonics.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=ADIDEPXRJ
Rosewill RC204 SATA/IDE adapter $13+5 11/05/06
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812206002
SYBA SY-JM-SIDE SATA/IDE adapter $10+5 11/05/06
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822998008

 

[goldragon_70]

I have found a few SATA to IDE dongels that will let me attach the IDE to the Serial connections. Thinks for the suggestions. the Check still hasn't posted to my account yet so It will be tomorrow before I make a final choice.

I might relook the ram if I go with the Abit, but the Asus I originaly had selected has a problem with Ram that runs at a higher voltage then it's 1.8v before you bring up the voltage. To the point that you need a 1.8v ram in it befor you rase the voltage for the ram.

 

[zjohnr]

I have found a few SATA to IDE dongels that will let me attach the IDE to the Serial connections.

Out of curiousity, which converter dongels are you using/thinking of using?

The only one that has worked mostly well for me uses the Silicon Image Sil 3811 chipset. (The chipset actually says it is Sunplus SATALink SPIF 3811 but I believe this is the same thing, just manufactured under a license from SI).

Worked well with a PATA hard drive, but saw timeouts and other problems when I tried it with an ATAPI PATA optical drive. :?

Also have one that uses the Sil 3611 and it did not work well for me. Always eager to compare notes and see what sort of mileage someone else has gotten.

-john

 

[goldragon_70]

I have found a few SATA to IDE dongels that will let me attach the IDE to the Serial connections.

Out of curiousity, which converter dongels are you using/thinking of using?
-john

This seems to be a better liked type: http://www.dealsurprise.com/syseatasatoi.html

But I'm not going to rush getting that yet, being that I will have time while I build load and work with my new computer.

 

[goldragon_70]

The Asus p5b-e seems to be better then the others with faster ram (Looking at the issues with motherboards really show the main problems with them are with ram, at least with low and mid range systems), but I have to ask if the difference between PC2 6400 and PC2 5400 is big enough to make a difference while doing heavy photo editing and gaming? (I do mean Heavy load editing! I've had to reinstall and OS once because the computer could not handle load and crashed, damaging a system file in the process.)

Please any help with my ram question would be helpful.

 

[Newf]

...I might relook the ram if I go with the Abit, but the Asus I originaly had selected has a problem with Ram that runs at a higher voltage then it's 1.8v before you bring up the voltage. To the point that you need a 1.8v ram in it befor you rase the voltage for the ram.

All P965 motherboards released around the Conroe launch had the same memory sensitivity issues. They have since been fixed through BIOS updates/revisions. Do not use early reviews or customer bitches about P965 motherboard problems as selection criteria. The ram I listed (both Kingston or Corsair) will work fine. The Corsair can overclock, the Kingston should not be. Visit the OC section of this forum to get more info on what to buy should you be serious about overclocking. As for stating the obvious, do not buy any integrated graphics motherboard OR any Intel brand board if you really want to overclock.