[SOLVED] Need help in deciding if i should go either 12th gen i7 or 11th gen i7?

[iwantspeed]

Hello all and thank you for reading this, my question is stated in the Headline title.
this is my current build---https://pcpartpicker.com/list/9yH7wV
proposed 11th gen build---https://pcpartpicker.com/list/2hx7Xy
proposed 12th gen build----https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LJZhtn
some parts of the old build i plan on reusing.

 

[Hellfire13]

Get the 12900k, skip the DDR5 and use the existing DDR4 kit with a DDR4 board. You wont find much difference in speed or latency with current DDR5. Needs more time to mature. If you wouldn't have had the RAM, it could have been justified.

 

[logainofhades]

I would argue the 12700k, on DDR4, is the better price/performance option. The 12900k isn't worth the extra cost. I would even argue that even a 12700k isn't worth it, vs a 12700 and B660 combo.

Even with a 12700k, and DDR4, with a 3080 12gb you can save several hundred $.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor ($364.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler ($109.95 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI MAG Z690 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($269.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 12GB LHR 12 GB XC3 ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($983.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1868.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2022-04-13 09:58 EDT-0400

 

[Hellfire13]

I was talking rather from the longevity point of view, since he has the budget. There is no use of the extra cores now but 5yrs down the line it will come handy. And on CPU heavy games it does give you a little more. 12700/12700k is fine too. Any of these is overkill now, but if you can afford it, it will age well.

 

[logainofhades]

$225 for two E cores, even for a 5yr system, doesn't sound very appealing. You can get a 2tb Crucial M5 Plus with that kind of money.

 

[Hellfire13]

$225 for two E cores, even for a 5yr system, doesn't sound very appealing. You can get a 2tb Crucial M5 Plus with that kind of money.

Ahh, I didn't check the price. At that price no, but if he gets a good deal then its a not a bad option.

 

[iwantspeed]

Get the 12900k, skip the DDR5 and use the existing DDR4 kit with a DDR4 board. You wont find much difference in speed or latency with current DDR5. Needs more time to mature. If you wouldn't have had the RAM, it could have been justified.

just so i understand correctly with a z690 board i can still run ddr4 just fine?

 

[logainofhades]

just so i understand correctly with a z690 board i can still run ddr4 just fine?

As long as said board is made to run with DDR4, like the one I posted above, then yes.

 

[Hellfire13]

just so i understand correctly with a z690 board i can still run ddr4 just fine?

Yes there are seperate boards for DDR4 and DDR5, usually identified by the suffix D4 or D5 with the name, like the one posted above by @logainofhades. Otherwise, you can just check out the detail.

 

[Why_Me]

For Z690 DDR4 board paired with a 12700K I'd have a look at these two.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144486
MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4 $289.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MPG-Z690-EDGE-WIFI-DDR4

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144487
MSI MAG Z690 TOMAHAWK WIFI DDR4 $292.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-Z690-TOMAHAWK-WIFI-DDR4

And here's a solid deal on a DDR5 board.

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119507
ASUS Prime Z690-A $279.99 + $10 off w/ promo code HPTBRA2295, limited offer

PRIME Z690-A｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

ASUS Prime series is expertly engineered to unleash the full potential of AMD and Intel processors. Boasting a robust power design, comprehensive cooling solutions and intelligent tuning options, Prime series motherboards provide daily users and DIY PC builders a range of performance tuning...

www.asus.com

 

[Karadjgne]

The biggest issue with a 12900K/KS is its absolute waste as a gaming cpu. The 12600k gets 90% of the way there, for a fraction of the price. The 12700K bumps heads with the 12900k in many/most games, especially at lower/mid resolutions. To top it off, the power requirements and excessive power draw of the 12900k just add to the total cost in a big way. Intel in its wisdom has basically revamped PL1 and Tau on the 12th gen, making the K class PL1 same as PL2 and Tau indefinite. That puts upto a constant 241w draw on the cpu cooler, which even big air like the NH-D15 is hard pressed to keep under tjmax. It's go big or go home with cooling, there's little room for middle ground with that cpu.

Overclocking a 12thGen has become pointless. The power consumption per 100MHz gain is just stupidly high. For no real gain. So the real purpose behind the needs of a Z690 for matching a K class cpu for overclocking possibilities have kinda gone out the window. Leaving pcie lanes as the only real benefit, if you want to run upto 4x pcie Gen4 storage you'd need a Z690 (12x pcie 4.0 on chipset), otherwise a B660 is capable of 2x (6x pcie4.0 on chipset).

12600k/12700 on a B660 makes far more sense than paying 3x the price for a 12900k on a Z690, is far easier to cool, and gets you 90%± of the fps.

As far as longetivity goes, as long as there is a major part of the world's population still using 8-12 thread cpus, games are not going to be written to exclude them. That'd be company suicide. The 16 p-threads in a 12900k won't outlive the 12 p-threads of the 12600k. The cpus themselves will be aged/obsolete before games change that much.

 

[Hellfire13]

These are some of the games that will benefit from more threads. Otherwise, its not much of a gain...
https://www.build-gaming-computers.com/cpu-intensive-games.html

 

[Karadjgne]

These are some of the games that will benefit from more threads. Otherwise, its not much of a gain...
https://www.build-gaming-computers.com/cpu-intensive-games.html

In CPU intensive games such as the ones below, if you pair a good GPU with a not-so-good CPU, depending on various factors you may encounter a CPU bottleneck (which means your CPU is "bottlenecking" your GPU from being used to its full potential).

Bunch of crap. There's ALWAYS a lopsided situation. Either the cpu or gpu isn't used to full potential. There's no such situation where both are in perfect harmony with the game code and fully used equally.

 

[Hellfire13]

Bunch of crap. There's ALWAYS a lopsided situation. Either the cpu or gpu isn't used to full potential. There's no such situation where both are in perfect harmony with the game code and fully used equally.

Its not about the harmony of CPU/GPU but the linear scaling of the game process across as much cores as available. When you restrict the process to fewer cores than it is capable of, the throughput is affected for that bit lost.
Its why 12900k will have more FPS than 12600k on CPU intensive titles, irrespective of the card used. I am not saying its a better buy, but it is what it is.

 

[Karadjgne]

Its why 12900k will have more FPS than 12600k on CPU intensive titles, irrespective of the card used.

12900k gets higher fps than 12600k because of higher core boost clocks and greater Lcache. Otherwise on a core to core basis, they are the same cpu architecture and fully capable of identical fps. The only time the 12900k benefits from any extra cores/threads is when the 12 p-threads of the 12600k get saturated, which happens in games so rarely i don't think it actually exists. I can't think of any game that will use all 12 threads, never mind saturate all 16 of the 12900k, meaning the 12900k is always under-utilized in gaming, regardless of game or gpu.

Kinda crazy to think you could sli 3090's in a game that's actually optimized for sli, and still have a gpu bottleneck with a 12900K because the cpu isn't used to its full potential...

 

[Hellfire13]

12900k gets higher fps than 12600k because of higher core boost clocks and greater Lcache.

I was saying the same thing. More cores, more cache and higher clocks do benefit some games.

 

[Karadjgne]

It's totally game dependent. Some games don't benefit from clock speeds after @ 3.2GHz, don't benefit from Lcache as it doesn't use much to start with, don't benefit from core counts because it uses only a few cores so even an old quad core is plenty, but will seriously benefit from higher and faster ram. It's totally upto the coding and optimization of the game and games just aren't optimized to take advantage of spillover, that'd require parallel coding and games are written to be serial for the most part, they'll use upto 8 threads, because the coding also needs to be ported to consoles or from consoles, work on quad core cpus etc.

 

[logainofhades]

The 12700 really is the sweet spot, for 12th gen. Way less than a 12900k, and not a lot more than a 12600k. 12700, on a good B660 board is really good price/performance option.

 

[geofelt]

If buying new, I would always buy current gen.
The ipc of 12th gen is some 15-20% better than 11th gen.
This translates to better single thread performance.
As a test, run the cpu-Z bench on your 6700K.
Look at the single thread rating.
You should get a number like 510:
http://valid.x86.fr/bench/xcj0l0
The stronger processors will be the 12th gen.
I would think 12600K would be a good upgrade.

Keep your DDR4 ram. Today, there is negligible difference in performance vs. ddr5.
Z690 DDR4 motherboards are not that expensive.
MSI PRO Z690-A wifi DDR4 is reasonably priced and popular.
I see no need for a high end motherboard that is capable of high overclocks.
It is better to just let the turbo mechanism do it's thing.

Your g.skil V series is, I think 42mm high.
Love the Noctua NH-D15, but unless you have 32mm ram, there will be a conflict:
https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification
Buy the NH-D15s instead. The s is a high compatibility version that clears all ram.
Performance is almost the same.