[SOLVED] Need help in selecting a good CPU AIR cooler at budget price in India

Vishal_7

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HI everyone,
I built a entry level rig with specs as follows:

CPU: RYZEN 3 2200G [3.725Ghz/ 1.330 VOLTAGE]
GPU: INTEGRATED VEGA GPU [ 1320MHz ] with 1.25V
RAM: CORSAIR 8GBX2 SINGLE RANK 2933MHz 16-20-20-38 TIMINGS @ 1.35V
SSD: ADATA SU650 480GB
MOTHERBOARD: MSI B450M PRO-VDH
SMPS/PSU: CORSAIR CX450
MONITOR: BENQ GW2280
CABINET: CORSAIR SPEC-04 BLACK

This currently has the stock Wraith spire which came bundled with the CPU but since I'll be upgrading to new Ryzen 3000 6/8 core if the pricing falls within my budget or at least I'll be going with Ryzen 5 2600(x variant maybe) or R7 1700(i do stream as well but with 2200G i can only stream overwatch). I went up looking for Cooler and to my surprise I found some 120mm liquid coolers like

Corsair Hydro Series, H45
COOLER MASTER MASTERLIQUID LITE 120 All In One 120mm Cpu Liquid Cooler (MLW-D12M-A20PW-R1)
ANTEC KUHLER H2O K120 All In One 120mm Cpu Liquid Cooler


at around 4000INR ~ $60. H45 and Cooler master were to go in the forums but most of them suggested to go with air coolers as they would be much better at the price point of these 120mm AIO coolers.
Did some Google and found that at the same price bracket there were only 120 mm air coolers (at least here in Bangalore, India) like ANTEC C400, Hyper 212/evo etc.
I want to know which one to go and why ?If you /anyone have used something then your review would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

PS: Can you tell if I had to choose between 2600/2600x vs 1700 then which one to go with ?
 

Eximo

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Evo 212 wouldn't be a bad choice. Make sure you have the height for it.

Around that price range would be the Deepcool Gammaxx 400 or Gammaxx GT. Deepcool Lucifer K2 seems like a pretty massive heatsink. But the fan doesn't look wonderful.

Just above that seems to be the entry level water coolers. Most people are right, slim 120mm all-in-ones aren't that much better than decent air coolers. They don't have significantly more surface area, just the extra heat capacity of the water. But mostly in US and Europe prices. Some of these things are pretty cheap, but I can't speak for how good they are.

All the coolers listed above have heatpipes, which contain fluid as well. They do a fantastic job of moving heat from hot to cold. Whereas most stock coolers simply have a slug of copper or aluminum that makes direct contact with the CPU heatspreader. So they are less effective.
 

Karadjgne

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How about waiting. The 2nd Gen Ryzen are supposedly a little more power hungry than 1st gen or 2 series, reason for the big debate on upgraded VRM's on 4 series mobo's and the X370's. So the question will be just what kind of stock cooler are they coming with, since so far amd has far surpassed Intel or even it's own prior stock cooling. Since stock Wraiths now can easily handle stock cpus, even with some OC, will a budget cooler bought now be similar to the freebie amd will hand out? Making a purchase now a waste of money.

I say save your money and you'll have that much more when you do get the 3000 series that you'll be able to match your wants and it's needs because gaming and streaming/compiling/rendering isn't easy on a cpu and you'll more than likely need a much larger cooling capacity than what a budget cooler can offer.

The Corsair H60 has almost identical performance to a CM hyper212 evo. The Corsair H45 outperforms the older H60 by a small margin. You are looking at @ 140w coolers for a cpu that can possibly hit closer to 180-200w if going with a x700 varient under OC.

There's nothing special about liquid cooling. A 140w budget AIO is the same as a 140w budget aircooler. The only real difference is in ranges, the biggest aircoolers are limited by space around the socket (first slot gpu) and motherboard-case side clearance and top out at 250w+. That's also the range for the better 240mm AIO's, junky 280mm AIO's and good 280mm hit 350w+ and 360mm can hit 450w+. Actual benchmark numbers are useless as anything more than a tool since AIO's temps work differently than aircoolers.
 
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Karadjgne

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2600 gets slightly better fps across the board, averaging 5-10fps in most games. Which doesn't amount to anything if your fps is already above your monitors refresh. The extra 2 cores on the 1700 are mainly of use in production capacity, you'll get better times in compiling large files, rendering etc but for purely gaming the 2600 is better. It also has the advantage of clocking slightly higher OC than the 1700, which can be of further use in games that better utilize clock speeds, like fast action shooters or racing etc.

Since the 2 cpus are usually neck and neck pricing, for the most part one is as good as the other, it might come down to which has the better combo deal etc. Neither is going to be bad or worse as performance is relatively so close.
 

Vishal_7

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2600 gets slightly better fps across the board, averaging 5-10fps in most games. Which doesn't amount to anything if your fps is already above your monitors refresh. The extra 2 cores on the 1700 are mainly of use in production capacity, you'll get better times in compiling large files, rendering etc but for purely gaming the 2600 is better. It also has the advantage of clocking slightly higher OC than the 1700, which can be of further use in games that better utilize clock speeds, like fast action shooters or racing etc.

Since the 2 cpus are usually neck and neck pricing, for the most part one is as good as the other, it might come down to which has the better combo deal etc. Neither is going to be bad or worse as performance is relatively so close.
My monitor is 1080p 60Hz max. So I wont be going 1440p anywhere in 2yr (personal choice). Yes I am definitely waiting but I wanted to know what are the available options out there in the market. Thank you so much for your answers. They really are helpful. Now few more things: i will be gaming and streaming the same time. so do you think those extra 2 cores on 1700 will help ? or 2600 has better IPC and will handle with 6 cores itself ?(not purchasing those, just wanted to know) I wont be purely gaming .


Also what is this 120mm=140w cooler ? I wasn't able to get that data anywhere. I knew that more the "mm", less is the noise at same or more level of cooling. but how to know which cooler will support max TDP cpu ?
 

Vishal_7

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Which one do you prefer ? Air cooler or water cooler ?
For me I can skip water cooler if it is too risky (due to leakage problem which happends with AIO often). That's why I want to go with air cooler as I wont have to suffer if something goes wrong
 

DavidM012

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Yes leaks or pump failure are both bad for pc at the stage it happens, maybe a few years down the line it spells the end for a good part of your build if any drips short components or cpu sustains heat over a period of time due to a failing pump.

Air coolers are more reliable in that sense there is an argument for water coolers on high end systems as air coolers have a top limit like the noctua nh-d15 or dark rock pro, both at the top end of the air cooler market at around $100, with a tdp of about 250 it's just right for a 2600, cooling and then a bit more for good measure.

Anything less, is well less and the cpu will run somewhat warmer and you'll probably have difficulty on warm days if you simply got a 140w cooler for an 180w cpu it's not going to be enough. You need to overspec not under spec. I bought a arctic freezer 160w cooler but my fx 4350 was 180w overclocked and it hit a limit at 4.7ghz. Couldn't clock it higher without exceeding safe temps. so I switched to water cooling but still only got to 4.9ghz. Not much gain for doing that except that overall the system runs cooler but I built my own cooling rig that is well outside standard specs and not something that is easily recommendable for the amount of bother it was. (ryzen will do about 4.2-4.3ghz if lucky, lower ghz but more cpu processing power).

If you want to go blam and it's done, get the noctua nhd-15 if you can fit one in your chassis. There are a few others aside from the dark rock pro 4 that are 6+ heat pipe air coolers, I think there was a cooler master and a thermal take one among others, can't remember all the brands, but basically it's dummy proof that, if a fan starts to go then you should have enough warning, to easily replace one or two fans which is far less hassle than a failed pump or leaky radiator.

It might be a bit above your budget by quite a margin but next to the cost of replace pc, it's practically insurance. A strong air cooler will extend the life of your pc, where a weak one will likely cause it to overheat. There is no middle there is a big chunky cooler or there is fryvoltily. If you plan to overclock that is. At default speeds most any cooler even the wraith will be adequate. The point is that overclocking hasn't been supported over much by oem's and damage sustained from overclocking isn't covered by a warranty.

So it is by far more in your interest to take a serious cooler seriously. Same goes for your psu. A waff psu will take out a good part of your system when it fails. The precautions for overclocking include a good cooler and a good psu. It means you're less likely to run into difficulties & that should make perfect sense. Electricity is dangerous and alot of components especially gpu's are using more power. Cpu's less, as the die size shrinks, but they can still go wrong with a poor quality psu.

There will come a nice day when cpu's and gpu's are v.low power, a few years down the line from now though!
 

Vishal_7

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Thanks for confirming my doubts
DavidM012
But I still do not get how is everyone getting to know those Watt thing. Like abc cooler has max xxx supported watt. How ? Is it a rule like 120mm will support 150-200w something like that ? or is it mentioned in the product description ?

Yes DavidM012, i'll upgrade my PSU once i buy new cpu gpu. That is when AMD release it . Yes the temp go really high in summer here in INDIA, we're talking about 40+Celsius (27 C inside room, not everyone has AC though). So yes i need a good cooler as i will be overclocking a bit.
My wraith spire with current overclock never exceeds 72C when gaming+streaming and 59C when only gaming.
 

DavidM012

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Product reviews mostly measure the overclocked tdp, just google it. eg. power consumption of ryzen blah overclocked. The amount of watts in power consumes is proportional to the watts of waste heat generated, simple physics, what is it the law of conservation of energy or something, you can't create or destroy energy but it transforms through one medium to another.

The published tdp is usually the default power draw but with turbo clocks and boosts and whatnot, for example some intels with a published 95w tdp (thermal design paramater)actually output closer to 180w under load.

Heatsinks on the other hand, if it says it's 130,140w, 160 or 250 then it usually is. The biggest and the best like the 6+ heatpipe versions do well under a load but you'd have to take measurements and do the math yourself if you wanted a good read on their actual ability. Which would be at least 250w fair and square.

The difference with some custom loops is that some like to put a gpu block on the loop with the cpu, so one or two large 420mm or 480mm radiator will easily handle both, there is some advantage in it in overspeccing the cooling sol'n as the gpu stays at max. clock speed and low temps, even under max load so there is never any throttling, but you pay a premium for it. There are no free mhz, if you ask me there is value for money and you simply have to do the sums.
 

DavidM012

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Easy peasy, only passing on some of what I learned from reading the forums, should all be relatively straightforward, so happy shopping! Saying that, the custom water loop not soooo straightfoward, but the air cooler, for that build, yes I think it would be straightforward. Well I like the full atx form factor and mid tower so no issues for me.

The only thing to bear in mind is that when ambient temps. rise, so will the idle temps. of the cpu so there will be less margin for overclocking in the warmest days, as you would expect, so long as you monitor things on the tough days, you can live with tuning it down slightly if necessary, though it may not be necessary to do that with the bigger air coolers, most of the time you should get the most from it anyway!
 

Vishal_7

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One last thing. How will I get to know a specific cooler will fit my cabinet or not ? I have CORSAIR SPEC-04 BLACK and everyone is saying if it might might then go with abc or xyz. But i cannot go on asking to shopkeeper to let me try the cooler and if it fits then I'll buy. Maybe some specs I'm missing which helps measure if a cooler can fit in a cabinet or not ?
 

DavidM012

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It's unlikely that it won't fit a mid tower. But you can look up the dimensions of the cooler

Maximum CPU Cooler Height
150mm
dark rock pro 4 length width height 145x136x162.mm

Reading the specs it does look a bit too tall but then you have choice, a different chassis, or leave a side panel off, a bigger cooler might necessitate a larger chassis, but you need that performance in a hot climate, the cooler is the less optional item really! Compromising on that will probably lead to more hassles when the system is under load.

RaijinTek Agos Maximum cooler height 160mm. Dunno where they are doing away with 10 or 2mm in the budget range. Maybe the backplane the board rests on is imprinted in a slightly elevated shape or something. Basically that's all shopping around.

Cit Raider is a bit more comparable with the tempered glass side panel and 160mm cooler clearance. The ones with 175mm cooler clearance seem to be significantly more expensive. But you never know what might turn up in clearance sales or something.
 
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DavidM012

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The noctua nh-d14 is 160mm but it's not exactly on par with the 15. It's compromise on the size of the cooler or compromise on the size of the chassis.

Antec cooler clearance 165mm. Keep shopping! You'll have to search for items that fit your desired specification. I cannae change the laws of physix.
 
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DavidM012

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Then you're only choice is to buy a 150mm cooler, which should be enough but it will also be sacrificing some cooling performance against the high end products, which are worth the bit extra. There isn't much alternative, since the closed loop coolers have more drawbacks than the air cooler long term. The only thing that can fail on the air cooler is the fan that is easily replaced.

The closed loop cooler has a pump, can leak and fans too so it's a question of the value for money is in the longevity of the parts, and the hassle, not the upfront cost. If none of that is to your liking perhaps you should reconsider and use one of the lower tdp cpu's. There is only so much you can wring out of a tight budget. +/- £10-20 on the chassis is nothing over a few years. But it's entirely down to what is your liking. You could spend a bit more for the extra capacity but, 180w 4.9ghz overclock on a hot day shut down my fx 4350 when ambient temps were 38c, on my water loop, which exceeds a budget closed loop like the cooler master 240mm seidon, (which is an aluminium radiator rather than copper) so I'm only trying too convince you that an excess of cooling is the way to go in hot weather!

There is a premium to be paid for overclocking, not on the cpu but the cooler, chassis to fit it and the psu. A custom water loop would cost even more. So, it is what in your view is value for money, not that there are any free mhz. If it's all to much, simply don't overclock. Compromising on the cooler that might lead to complications isn't value for money. If you need it to stay running you are unfortunately in the worst position to compromise. In the summer months the price of 21inch desk fans go up. cest la vie.
 

Karadjgne

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Factory leaks in AIO's are extremely rare, and most often visible soon as you open the box. 99% of leaks are caused by the installer during installation when bending or twisting the tubes and stressing the connections, either on pump side or rad side. There are millions of AIO's from all the various OEMs made every year and nothing is posted about all the ones that do not leak, only the ones that do, which is a couple every year. The chances of an AIO developing a leak a by itself are as slim as a motherboard warping under the weight of a large tower. Leaks do happen, boards do warp, but it only takes 1 video/complaint/happenstance to make a mountain out of that ant-hill.

Might as well start screaming about the amount of cpus destroyed, or motherboards ruined when inept installers drop those oversized aircoolers during installation, or how dangerous aircoolers can be since the fin edges can be razor sharp, I've personally received more than my fair share of paper cuts.

I've never had an AIO that I've installed leak, in fact the only leak I ever had was one time on a full custom loop I missed a burred edge on a tube and that connector dripped. Simple fix, if irritating.

Google is your friend. You can find the height of pretty much any cooler you need online, and if it's not posted on the cooler website, it'll be in a review or other such.

TDP is thermal design Power. Regardless of what wiki says, TDP is actually the power draw averaged from a series of applications run. And those are nominal output apps, not extreme apps like rendering or compiling and driving a cpu to 100% usage. The thermal output of that power used is generally ±5°C from the wattage used, although can be more or less depending on the cpu, so TDP was adopted as a thermal wattage indicator since it's close enough. Depending on the cpu, max thermal outputs are generally 1.5x - 2x TDP, although recent cpu designs like the 8c/16t i9-9900k can and do exceed that limit. OC changes the game even further, quite easy for thermal outputs to far exceed wattage used.

You can't ever over cool a cpu. It's impossible. You can definitely under cool a cpu though so when it comes to cpu cooling, figure the maximum you are willing to do, and then get a cooler that's larger still.

For a spec-04, the biggest cooling capacity will be found in a Corsair H80i varient or other double fan, double thick rad design. For air coolers, it's the Scythe Fuma Rev.b at 142mm, but that can have issues with ram fitment.
 
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DavidM012

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Some aios do have a 5 year warranty but it's not the leak it's the pump failure which is a pain. Couple of weeks ago I had a case where an aio pump had been failing over a period of time and the user switched it for a gamma max heatsink on an 8320 which was under spec and after a week of that the cpu died. It was a 5yr old build & it was in a similarly hot climate. Problems tend to occur after a period of time. A chunk of metal can't go wrong. If you like to keep your pc running for as long as possible.

Ryzen is a bit tougher than fx but, I think silly problems mean it is sometimes best to use a dummy proof solution if poss. & the hot climate demands more than average cooling. Just because it can run hotter doesn't mean it's smarter to run it hotter. Ram clearance looks fine @ 4.46 yes the scythe fuma rev b fits a 150mm chassis though the fans are noisier than the noctua fans. The fan overhangs the dimm sockets but won't obstruct 24mm tall low profile ram sinks.

Ryzen 5 3600 tdp is the same as the 2600 so same problem either way.
 

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