[SOLVED] Need help pairing an AIO liquid cooler with my 3700x

[pyfreak7401]

I was thinking of already upgrading my newly built rig with an AIO cooler since i'm aimming towards a better airflow and lower temps in general for better OCing. Now, my case is the coolermaster masterbox mb530p. So far i have 3x120mm fans as intake on the front and 1x120mm fan at the back as exhaust. I'm in between these two AIOs:
CoolerMaster MasterLiquid ML360R RGB & CoolerMaster MasterLiquid ML240R RGB. If i choose the first one im going to have to remove the 3 front fans and replace them with the 360mm radiator, hence my AIO would act as intake and also place 2/3 fans i removed on top of the case as extra exhaust fans(ratio would be 3/3). Second scenario would be to buy the second AIO and place it on top of the case either as exhaust(3/3) or intake(5/1). I've read lots of reviews that claim that if you mount your AIO on top either as exhaust or intake, there's isn't much of a difference. How is this so? Isn't the AIO cooler supposed to be used as intake since its primary purpose is to cool more efficiently the CPU? Which AIO would you choose and why ? Which scenario is the best for better overall temps? FYI i have a Gigabyte 5700XT with 3 fans which produces the majority of heat inside the case(at least i think that is).

*CPU temps while gaming are aprox 70-75C with a few peaks at 80-83C @ 4.2 GHZ 1.2625 V and while running cinebench at these settings they can reach up to 87-88C(after 70C i have it running at 100% RPM)

 

[geofelt]

The x suffix processors come running largely at their max capability.
No amount of cpu cooling is likely to make a big difference in your overclock.

If you mount a aio radiator in front, you will get good fresh air to cool the cpu, but that heated air is going to be used for cooling your graphics card; not good.

What is your cpu cooler now?
A good twin tower cpu air cooler will be about as effective as a 240 aio.

If you want better cooling, you can replace the front intakes with higher rpm fans but at the cost of more noise.
To get an idea as to how much that might help, take the case covers off and direct a house fan at the case innards.
If that helps much, look to case cooling fixes.

 

[GarrettL]

I have a 3800x and it's been running on a Corsair H60 for months now. Only Folding at Home would push it just above 80C.

A 240 AIO would be more than enough if you're trying to reduce fan noise. But any good air cooler would be fine as well. And air coolers never break down or leak.

When the H60 dies or fails I'll go back to an air cooler.

 

[pyfreak7401]

The x suffix processors come running largely at their max capability.
No amount of cpu cooling is likely to make a big difference in your overclock.

If you mount a aio radiator in front, you will get good fresh air to cool the cpu, but that heated air is going to be used for cooling your graphics card; not good.

What is your cpu cooler now?
A good twin tower cpu air cooler will be about as effective as a 240 aio.

If you want better cooling, you can replace the front intakes with higher rpm fans but at the cost of more noise.
To get an idea as to how much that might help, take the case covers off and direct a house fan at the case innards.
If that helps much, look to case cooling fixes.

Right now i use the amd wraith prism that came with it. I don't care about the noise since im always gaming with headphones(My 5700XT runs at 3400 RPMs most of the time in games and i dont hear a thing)

 

[pyfreak7401]

I have a 3800x and it's been running on a Corsair H60 for months now. Only Folding at Home would push it just above 80C.

A 240 AIO would be more than enough if you're trying to reduce fan noise. But any good air cooler would be fine as well. And air coolers never break down or leak.

When the H60 dies or fails I'll go back to an air cooler.

Yes the fact that air coolers never leak is a huge plus i'll give you that. But in case i decide to stick with the 360mm version isn't there gonna be at least an acceptable difference in temps since the fans would be placed as intakes rather than placing the 240mm version as exhaust? Also which air cooler would you recommend?

 

[rubix_1011]

I've personally tested a couple of air coolers where there were flaws in the heatpipes of air coolers and there was not any vapor liquid in them (after being sent back and their engineering dept checked). They performed 'average' when there was not any load applied since the issue was only a problem in 1 or 2 of the heatpipes out of multiples, although this diminishes thermal capacity of the cooler.

I've also tested a lot of AIO coolers and have not yet seen one with a leak, but again, how often do you see forums filled with people discussing a primary subject of their liquid cooler not leaking.

Kind of like calling your cable or internet provider to tell them how well they are doing and that their service is always up and available.

Point being - you'll always find greater evidence of complaints of a product compared to random cheers of approvals.

 

[Karadjgne]

I've had brand new Noctua with leaky heatpipes from a bad weld, I've had a Phanteks with a warped base, I've had CM hyper212 with heatpipes that seperated from the base plate, Raijintek where half the fins on the stack seperated from a heatpipe during install, seen plenty of damaged mobo's from huge aircoolers in high humidity areas.... The list goes on.

Fact is, everything has a failure rate. Doesn't matter if it's an aircooler or aio or memory or mobo or psu or storage, it's everything.

Imagine this. Last year Corsair sold 1Million AIO's. Had a 0.1% failure rate. Figure that's a tiny number, but it's still 10,000 unhappy customers. Out of that 10,000 most were pump failures, fan failures, 'I'm scared' so rma returns etc. Maybe 10% were bonified leaks. That's 1000 really unhappy customers. Out of that 1000 people, 100 had catastrophic failure, hose blew or connector broke off. Out of that 100, 1 person made a video. Blasted the net with a preach about how an aio leaked and destroyed his pc. Naturally, it goes viral and a million people see it. Out of that million, 100 visit this site and spend the next year advising against liquid cooling because everybody knows that aios leak, watch this video, it's proof. Better get an aircooler because they are cheaper, never break, are quieter (that's another video of a Noctua vrs an old corsair H110 with its 2800rpm fans at max (yeah, fair comparison there)).

But what about the 990,000 customers that had no issues? Where is their video?

And yet most professionals, Linus, Jayz, Steve from Gamersnexus, and the rest strangely use either an AIO or full custom loop on their test benches. With plenty of videos.

A person might be intelligent, but people are Sheep. One little bleet and that goes on, and on, and on and 100 sheep later everyone is bleeting and none have any idea why.

 

[pyfreak7401]

Just out of curiosity, in case an AIO leaks and destroys your GPU for example, who is liable to cover that? Do you RMA it to the GPU or the AIO manufacturer ?

 

[Phaaze88]

Just out of curiosity, in case an AIO leaks and destroys your GPU for example, who is liable to cover that? Do you RMA it to the GPU or the AIO manufacturer ?

The AIO manufacturer. They WILL check to be sure the fault is on their end though, so keep that in mind.
This rarely happens anyway, but out of a few people who've had their PCs wrecked by a leaking AIO, some had been completely reimbursed for damages by the manufacturer.
I've only ever heard of NZXT and Corsair doing it though. Again, it's a rare occurrence. Most will just cover you for the AIO, and that's it.

 

[rubix_1011]

I've had brand new Noctua with leaky heatpipes from a bad weld, I've had a Phanteks with a warped base, I've had CM hyper212 with heatpipes that seperated from the base plate, Raijintek where half the fins on the stack seperated from a heatpipe during install, seen plenty of damaged mobo's from huge aircoolers in high humidity areas.... The list goes on.

Fact is, everything has a failure rate. Doesn't matter if it's an aircooler or aio or memory or mobo or psu or storage, it's everything.

Imagine this. Last year Corsair sold 1Million AIO's. Had a 0.1% failure rate. Figure that's a tiny number, but it's still 10,000 unhappy customers. Out of that 10,000 most were pump failures, fan failures, 'I'm scared' so rma returns etc. Maybe 10% were bonified leaks. That's 1000 really unhappy customers. Out of that 1000 people, 100 had catastrophic failure, hose blew or connector broke off. Out of that 100, 1 person made a video. Blasted the net with a preach about how an aio leaked and destroyed his pc. Naturally, it goes viral and a million people see it. Out of that million, 100 visit this site and spend the next year advising against liquid cooling because everybody knows that aios leak, watch this video, it's proof. Better get an aircooler because they are cheaper, never break, are quieter (that's another video of a Noctua vrs an old corsair H110 with its 2800rpm fans at max (yeah, fair comparison there)).

But what about the 990,000 customers that had no issues? Where is their video?

And yet most professionals, Linus, Jayz, Steve from Gamersnexus, and the rest strangely use either an AIO or full custom loop on their test benches. With plenty of videos.

A person might be intelligent, but people are Sheep. One little bleet and that goes on, and on, and on and 100 sheep later everyone is bleeting and none have any idea why.

This brought a tear to my eye as I read through it...couldn't have written it any better.

 

[Karadjgne]

Wow. I should bookmark or macro that then 😉

But it is pretty accurate for all that. Most of the more reliable rated stuff does average somewhere around a 0.1% failure rate. It's the stuff like the TT TR2 psus with an average closer to @ 20% that really cement bad opinions. If you figure just 100,000 TR2's were sold in the US alone, that's 20,000 bunk units, that's close to 1 bunk unit sold in every store in the US that sells them, and places like Amazon and newegg are really hit hard with their bulk purchases. The TR2 itself is solidly mediocre, but with a 20% failure rate, it's just plain unacceptable risk.

Much of the problem is actually getting an accurate(ish) accounting of failures. Companies often can only go by rma/warranty numbers and tested actual failures. Psus like the Corsair CX more often than not just got tossed in the rubbish, cheaper and easier to replace than wait on a replacement. Whereas the Corsair AX/AXi was so expensive, almost guaranteed it was rma'd and not tossed.

At $20-$25, just how many people with defective CM Hyper212's over the years really warrantee'd/rma and just how many simply tossed it and bought something bigger/better. As expensive as AIO's are, very few junk them, so the total failure rate is often scaled higher and more accurate, the Hyper212 seemingly flawless in comparison.

 

[pyfreak7401]

So regarding the original question any other opinions?

 

[GarrettL]

You don’t need a 360 for the 3700x, the 240 is fine.

 

[Karadjgne]

Aios range same as aircooling. For the most part. Figure an average 120mm AIO is @ 140w, same as a CM hyper212. A 240mm aio is @ 200w, same as your larger air like cryorig H5, darkrock 4, Noctua NH-U12A etc. A 280mm is @ 250w, or NH-D15, darkrock pro4 etc. A 360mm is @ 300w, and there are no equitable air coolers for that capacity.

Capacity and ability are not the same, but do work hand in hand. Fan and temp curves have a pretty shallow rise until they start approaching maximum levels of wattage, at which point they start drastically rising as the heatsink/rad gets saturated.

What that means is fan rpm ranges. On the 3700x, there's little difference between a 120mm and a 360mm AIO at low loads, you are still very much inside that slow slope. It's only when getting towards saturation that the 120mm starts rising hard and the 360mm is not. It's still got plenty of room left on that low slope.

That applies to a 240mm as well. The 3700x is only going to pull @ 90w maxed out with stock settings, any OC will bump that up naturally, so stock a 120mm AIO will work, but is into the rise, so temps will be higher, fans faster. A 240mm you'll still be well inside the low slope, so temps will be lower and fans slower. You'll not see much (if any) difference between a 240mm and a 280mm or 360mm as the slopes will still be pretty close, a few °C difference.

The biggest factor will be the aio itself, some fans are simply more efficient and effective, so get lower temps, but that doesn't really change capacity, only ability.

So it's your choice, either 240mm or 360mm, very little difference, if any, with the same brand and fans, it'll all be on looks, not performance. Some ppl just prefer to stick all 3x 120mm argb case fans on a 360mm instead of having that gap, some don't care because the RGB fans are exterior, some do care because of plain fans being pull not push (nzxt H500i etc) and a 360mm is a pain to get around the psu shroud.

 

[curry36]

I have a similar question. I'm planing to buy the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 and mount it on the top. My first impression would be that it makes sense to pull fresh air for the CPU. But then, I'd have three more intake case fans on the front side and only one exhaust on the backside. So basically 5ins/1outs...

Would that make sense? The other option would be to push hot air out of the case on the top, having a solid airflow within the case. But would this mean less cooling for the CPU?

I wonder if the rules for good airflow do not count if the CPU is getting cooled by an AIO, and if all that matters would be getting fresh air from the outside into the AIO.

I am also aiming for a blower GPU (Sapphire Radeon RX 580 should be a blower, right?) to prevent extra heat inside the case. All that matters to me are good CPU temperatures for overclocking.

System would be: i9-10940X, Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280, 4 x Noctua NF-S12B, Fractal Meshify S2