Question Need help with mobo selection.

Mar 15, 2023
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I am a photogrpaher, not a PC techie. So I may appear to ask dumb questions.
My 11 year old i7 3700K build was great, and it still serves me well. When I built it, I took the time to understand the needs of a photo editing rig and the components that were available. Accordingly I have spent the last month studying the current components needed for a new photo-editing rig (heck I'd never heard of a NVMe drive). I only process one raw photo at a time using Lightroom and Photoshop, no large event photography batches, no video and no gaming. For years I have been using the ASUS bios auto-overclock feature in my ASUS P8Z77 mobo and that has helped me get more performance from the build. I was even able to survive with only the onboard graphics until I purchased a second 1440p monitor. However I am noticing that it is now slowing me down in Lightroom & Photoshop when I make use of the newer adjustment mask features...and also when I occasionally use Topaz Suite (which taxes my Radeon RX460). I have recently retired so I have plenty of free time now to monetize my hobby. I post on Facebook neighborhood groups and get weekly requests for prints from neighbors. I am going to buy a printer soon and also create photo books so I think the whole experience will be better on a snappier machine. My budget will be around US$2250 ....I have to purchase my components in inflated CDN dollars though.
I definitely will go with a i7 13700K though a i5 is probably the sweet spot. My decision is based on the fact that i7 has great single core performance and that is what is important in photo editing which simply 2D pixel pushing, not multi-core 3D gaming. Furthermore, I have the funds to buy a better CPU and if this rig can last a decade like the last one it will be wise to go with the more powerful one.
I had been agonizing over a costlier Z790 mobo with DDR5 vs. a cheaper mobo with DDR4.
But I have narrowed the selection down to 3 lower tier Gigabyte boards:
A) GIGABYTE Z790 UD AC
B)GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX
C) GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite
I can't really tell what differences they bring. I assume since I won't be OC'ing the i7 13700 that the VRMs while different are all sufficient.
WHY would people purchase the Elite over the UD AC. Is the Elite going to give better performance or logevity. Does the Elite have thicker board, better copper wiring, better capacitors/diodes or memory regulators?
I believe all three satisfy my i/o and M.2/SATA requirements
I plan to purchase two new NVMe SSDs and a new 8-12GB SATA HDD spinner as well as include 4 drives from my current build: My C:drive which is a Samsung 840 pro SATA 600, a Samsung 850 pro SATA 600 drive that I use as Lightroom catalogue/scratch drive and also 2 SATA HDD spinners with data.
I am happy to even spend the money to get a ASUS Strix-F if I felt it gave me better performance than these Gigatbyte borads but for my usage I don't think it will. Any insight from big brained techie people would be appreciated.
 
You should be able to do a side by side comparison of those 3 gigabytes at gigabyte web site using their "compare" function. Without looking myself, I'd likely lean toward the Aorus. There might be some differences in stuff like audio chip, number and type of monitor connections; number of case fan connectors, etc.

Longevity on motherboards immediately leads to speculation. I wouldn't get bogged down in it. Concentrate on "must have" features.

Have you investigated cases at all? I'd pay attention to case width, so it could accommodate coolers in the 160 mm height range.

You need 7 drives in the new machine? Tolerable, might crowd the case a bit though. That many drives and a 13700K might force you to an upper end cooler. Air likely still OK unless you are anxiety-ridden about temps.

Some motherboards may have only 2 NVMe ports. Might not matter now, but might in 2026 as you upgrade drives over time.

You'll see motherboards with PCIe 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0 NVMe ports. I wouldn't get very excited about that either. Most current boards will have at least one 4.0 port, maybe none that are 5.0. Some boards might have a built in heatsink for at least one of the NVMe ports. You can always buy an add-on heatsink if need be.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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You should be able to do a side by side comparison of those 3 gigabytes at gigabyte web site using their "compare" function. Without looking myself, I'd likely lean toward the Aorus. There might be some differences in stuff like audio chip, number and type of monitor connections; number of case fan connectors, etc.

Longevity on motherboards immediately leads to speculation. I wouldn't get bogged down in it. Concentrate on "must have" features.
Thanks! I've done that comparison on the GB site as well as the newgg site. The differences are negligible considering I don't need wifi or care about sound. My setup will be for photo-editing only. No gaming or video, so sound is of no consequence to me. I think the lowest of the range has the features I need but before I buy it I still ask bigbrained tech people if there is something the AORUS offers that is not listed on the usual website features i.e. it has better wiring, more copper, thicker panel, better capacitors or even memory controllers for example. Or does the bios differ and give me access to better CPU core performance turbo boost.....There is a difference in the VRMs but I am assuming that with my usage the cheapest 16+1+1 60Amp is still sufficient.

Glaring at the different mobo info it looks like there is a difference in the M.2 slot thermals. Doubt that is of any consequence for my usage.

I have the funds to purchase a Strix-E but don't want to feed the marketing machines. I suspect a lower tier board will serve my needs fine but would hate to buy a lower tier GIGABYTE Z790 UD AC to find out there are quality differences with the lower tier boards outside of the feature sets.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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With regard to RAM.....should I buy the highest speed and lowest latency that I can afford? What I've read on the mobo reviews is that the Gigabyte mobos have a hard time running the faster RAM as speeds greater than 6000. I don't know if it is worth my while to spend for high speed RAM if photo-editing doesn't take advantage of it.
From my research I've read that these mobos aren't the best for OC'ing but that doesn't bother me because I get the impression that the i7 13700 is essentially already overclocked in its core enhancement burst modes and not worth trying to squeeze more out of it unless that is something you want to do for the zen of it (I don't).
Because the CPU does run hot the prudent things is to undervolt it which could improve stability and longevity...which I may learn to do.
In view of a desire to undervolt the RANM is there something in the RAM that I should be looking for? And does this also affect my mobo selection, are the cheaper entry mobos harder to undervolt (or easier to recover from a noob screw up)?
 
I'd try to get a board in which the BIOS gave me a lot of control over power usage (watts). If "too hot", you can tame the CPU by that control directly, with minimal impact on CPU performance. I don't know that I would concentrate on "undervolting" per se.

I am NOT sure what 13th generation boards DON'T allow that...if any. I assume most if not all do. You might be able to dig out BIOS details at Gigabyte?

Have you explicitly ruled out MSI boards?

Are you locked in on a Z board and full ATX?

Will you make money with this PC? If not, I'd doubt RAM details other than amount would be highly important. Maybe a heavy duty photo editor would differ? Obviously, you have to decide on DDR4 versus 5 and how inferior you would feel if you chose 4. Price differential between 4 and 5 has collapsed a lot.
 
13700K will be a massive upgrade for you.
Today, DDR4 performs about the same as DDR5.
The ram and associated motherboards are a bit cheaper.
If anything, being an older technology, the kinks will have been long worked out. Z790 is an evolutionary update to Z690 which has been around for a while.

I have no opinion on motherboard brands,
Check out the newegg user reviews.
Many will not post except for bad things, and some of them are self inflicted errors, shipping delays, or rebate issues. Still, if a particular motherboard has issues, you can get an idea.

On single thread performance, run the cpu-Z bench test and look at the single thread performance rating.
The 13700K will be about 872.
https://valid.x86.fr/bench/die6r9
Only the 13900K or 13900KS will be better.
I do not think you need to go there.

On ram, the most important spec is to buy enough.
Intel does not much depend on fast ram for performance.
More ram allows you to hole more in ram instead of needing work drives.
DDR4 3600 speed would likely be the sweet spot.

Today, chips are binned and the better ones are used in higher performing parts.
There is very little headroom for overclocking.
Usually the best approach is to let the motherboard boost what it needs as best it can.
One of the factors involves will be cpu cooling.
Expect the chip to reach 100c. on some cores. That is normal.
Motherboard makers are quite agressive on getting the max performance.
I would not fool with undervolting or other tweaks.
The risk is that you may screw something up.
A good case with lots of airflow will let you use air cooling.
Noctua maintains a list of suitable air coolers for various processors.
Here is the list for the I7-13700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-13700K-1640
NH-D15 is the best, but it needs low profile ram and 165mm clearance.
NH-D15s is close and improves on compatibility.

Look for a case that holds your parts.
Not all will hold a large quantity of hard drives.
Not many will have room for a dvd drive if you need that.
Look for a case with at least two front 140mm fans that are filtered.
Three is better and 160,180 or 200mm fans will also work.
Larger fans move more air and will be quieter.
A easily changed washable front filter will keep your parts cleaner.
Find a review for any case of interest.


I would stick with Samsung which has, over time been very reliable.
Do not chase impressive sequential ssd benchmarks.
 
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Mar 15, 2023
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I'd try to get a board in which the BIOS gave me a lot of control over power usage (watts). If "too hot", you can tame the CPU by that control directly, with minimal impact on CPU performance. I don't know that I would concentrate on "undervolting" per se.
I am NOT sure what 13th generation boards DON'T allow that...if any. I assume most if not all do. You might be able to dig out BIOS details at Gigabyte?
TBH I am not sure what the proper manner, method or terminology is used. I just feel that people are cooling their gen 13 CPUs down either through manipulating the RAM voltage or perhaps it is by some other manner. I told you, I'm a photographer not a PC techie. I just get the impression it isn't OC'ing like it was 10 years ago when I used the bios to do an auto-OC in my ASUS bios. I figure I'd probably want to do whatever everyone is doing to eke out more performance a few years from now when I need more performance - when programs get bigger or my camera files get bigger due to a new camera. Not understanding the process completely I just didn't want to mistakenly purchase a lower tier mobo that would deny me this future path. But it looks like all bioses have this - or perhaps all Z790bioses do as this would be the chipset that the tinkerers would buy.

Have you explicitly ruled out MSI boards?
Are you locked in on a Z board and full ATX?
Will you make money with this PC? If not, I'd doubt RAM details other than amount would be highly important. Maybe a heavy duty photo editor would differ? Obviously, you have to decide on DDR4 versus 5 and how inferior you would feel if you chose 4. Price differential between 4 and 5 has collapsed a lot.
I would consider MSI - the Pro-A seems to get great reviews. But I am locked on Z790chipset. I feel that this could last me 10 years like my last build did so I feel that the PCIe 5 slot for a GPU in 5 years might be a wise feature. The i/o is better than the lower tier chipset and there are more lanes....as a photographer which storage needs I may need multiple M.2 lanes an d sata drives. i do use the rig to generate income. I am retired and have a pension and do NOT rely on my photography to pay bills but I am earning funds that I use to purchase more gear as well as fund this build. So the rig's stability is important. Despite the higher price I think I'l go with DDR5. I'll buy 2 x 16 gb sticks and probably will need to double this in 5 years - DDR5 may be the better choice then.
 
Mar 15, 2023
4
0
10
I am a photogrpaher, not a PC techie. So I may appear to ask dumb questions.
My 11 year old i7 3700K build was great, and it still serves me well. When I built it, I took the time to understand the needs of a photo editing rig and the components that were available. Accordingly I have spent the last month studying the current components needed for a new photo-editing rig (heck I'd never heard of a NVMe drive). I only process one raw photo at a time using Lightroom and Photoshop, no large event photography batches, no video and no gaming. For years I have been using the ASUS bios auto-overclock feature in my ASUS P8Z77 mobo and that has helped me get more performance from the build. I was even able to survive with only the onboard graphics until I purchased a second 1440p monitor. However I am noticing that it is now slowing me down in Lightroom & Photoshop when I make use of the newer adjustment mask features...and also when I occasionally use Topaz Suite (which taxes my Radeon RX460). I have recently retired so I have plenty of free time now to monetize my hobby. I post on Facebook neighborhood groups and get weekly requests for prints from neighbors. I am going to buy a printer soon and also create photo books so I think the whole experience will be better on a snappier machine. My budget will be around US$2250 ....I have to purchase my components in inflated CDN dollars though.
I definitely will go with a i7 13700K though a i5 is probably the sweet spot. My decision is based on the fact that i7 has great single core performance and that is what is important in photo editing which simply 2D pixel pushing, not multi-core 3D gaming. Furthermore, I have the funds to buy a better CPU and if this rig can last a decade like the last one it will be wise to go with the more powerful one.
I had been agonizing over a costlier Z790 mobo with DDR5 vs. a cheaper mobo with DDR4.
But I have narrowed the selection down to 3 lower tier Gigabyte boards:
A) GIGABYTE Z790 UD AC
B)GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX
C) GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite
I can't really tell what differences they bring. I assume since I won't be OC'ing the i7 13700 that the VRMs while different are all sufficient.
WHY would people purchase the Elite over the UD AC. Is the Elite going to give better performance or logevity. Does the Elite have thicker board, better copper wiring, better capacitors/diodes or memory regulators?
I believe all three satisfy my i/o and M.2/SATA requirements
I plan to purchase two new NVMe SSDs and a new 8-12GB SATA HDD spinner as well as include 4 drives from my current build: My C:drive which is a Samsung 840 pro SATA 600, a Samsung 850 pro SATA 600 drive that I use as Lightroom catalogue/scratch drive and also 2 SATA HDD spinners with data.
I am happy to even spend the money to get a ASUS Strix-F if I felt it gave me better performance than these Gigatbyte borads but for my usage I don't think it will. Any insight from big brained techie people would be appreciated.


Regarding the choice of CPU, the i7-13700K is definitely a good choice for photo editing. As you mentioned, single-core performance is more important than multi-core performance for this task, and the i7-13700K offers excellent single-core performance.
As for the motherboard, all three of the Gigabyte boards you mentioned should be sufficient for your needs. The main differences between them are in the number of PCIe slots, the number of USB ports, and the quality of the onboard audio. The Elite does have slightly better VRMs, which may provide a slight advantage in overclocking, but since you're not planning to overclock, this is not a significant factor.
In terms of SSDs, NVMe drives are definitely the way to go for faster performance. It's good that you're planning to include both NVMe SSDs and a SATA HDD spinner for storage.
The ASUS Strix-F is a high-end motherboard that may provide some additional features and better overclocking capabilities, but as you mentioned, it's not necessary for your usage. If you're happy with the features and capabilities of the lower tier Gigabyte boards, there's no need to spend more money on a higher-end board.
 
Mar 15, 2023
26
2
35
On ram, the most important spec is to buy enough.
Intel does not much depend on fast ram for performance.
More ram allows you to hole more in ram instead of needing work drives.
DDR4 3600 speed would likely be the sweet spot.

Today, chips are binned and the better ones are used in higher performing parts.
There is very little headroom for overclocking.
Usually the best approach is to let the motherboard boost what it needs as best it can.
One of the factors involves will be cpu cooling.
Expect the chip to reach 100c. on some cores. That is normal.
Motherboard makers are quite agressive on getting the max performance.
I would not fool with undervolting or other tweaks.
The risk is that you may screw something up.
A good case with lots of airflow will let you use air cooling.
Noctua maintains a list of suitable air coolers for various processors.
Here is the list for the I7-13700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-13700K-1640
NH-D15 is the best, but it needs low profile ram and 165mm clearance.
NH-D15s is close and improves on compatibility.
Photo-editing is RAM and CPU single core intensive. It is 2D pixel pushing not 3D gaming. I know the amount of RAM I need - 32 GB will be enough. It is what I have had since 2012. It is the type of RAM that bewilders me....varying speeds and latency numbers. I thought this might be something important for me to take in to account when I buy my 32 GBs.
I do realise I need to keep this 13 gen as cool as possible so it can run at its turbo core enhanced speeds. I will not water cool. My usage will not be as taxing as the many benchmarks I've been looking at. I've been considering the Noctua and also a Thermalright Peerless Assassin.
I agree about not fooling with the voltages or othwer tweaks. I mention them only as I did use the ASUS auto-OC in my 11 year old mobo bios as well as enabling XMP and they did help prolong the usefulness of that build. i would only do something similar this year. I know enough to know I know too little. I won't screw up my bios or timings ect. I didn't know what XMP enabling did 11 years ago but I was able to do enough research to know that a high end mobo and RAM that had XMP profile. That is the type of knowledge I am seeking now. is there any characteristics of the current DDR5 that I should look for that will get me better performance? It seems like there are varying sticks with differing speed and latency and definitely price.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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A) GIGABYTE Z790 UD AC
B)GIGABYTE Z790 GAMING X AX
C) GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite

So if the feature set of the lowest-end Z790 UD AC meets my needs then there are no performance advantages for me to purchase the Elite board?
EDIT - I see that question was answered earlier now that I have refreshed .
 
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Mar 15, 2023
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As for the motherboard, all three of the Gigabyte boards you mentioned should be sufficient for your needs. The main differences between them are in the number of PCIe slots, the number of USB ports, and the quality of the onboard audio. The Elite does have slightly better VRMs, which may provide a slight advantage in overclocking, but since you're not planning to overclock, this is not a significant factor.
In terms of SSDs, NVMe drives are definitely the way to go for faster performance. It's good that you're planning to include both NVMe SSDs and a SATA HDD spinner for storage.
The ASUS Strix-F is a high-end motherboard that may provide some additional features and better overclocking capabilities, but as you mentioned, it's not necessary for your usage. If you're happy with the features and capabilities of the lower tier Gigabyte boards, there's no need to spend more money on a higher-end board.
Researching the Elite I see that when you use a specific M.2 slot you lose use of two of the 6 SATA ports due to shared lanes. Will need to see if this is a problem on the 2 cheaper boards. Sad this only appears in fine print on the GB site and not on Newegg or Amazon.
My hesitancy in getting a cheaper mobo has been due to the fact that when I last purchased a mobo 11 years ago there was a distinct difference in build quality and resultant effect on performance between the different mobo tiers. Paying a couple hundred bucks more for an extra M.2 slot here and a few USB ports there seems excessive. Rant over.
Now I just need to sift through the world of RAM speeds and latency....
 
Mar 15, 2023
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The ASUS Strix-F is a high-end motherboard that may provide some additional features and better overclocking capabilities, but as you mentioned, it's not necessary for your usage. If you're happy with the features and capabilities of the lower tier Gigabyte boards, there's no need to spend more money on a higher-end board.
Turns out there is a lesser-known -H variant that is much cheaper.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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Thanks everyone for all of your help...I asked a lot of questions....a few dumb ones in hindsight. But I feel I have arrived at a build.


I couldn't stomach the higher ASUS prices though every time I looked at the Strix I felt at home. The bios, the look of the board, their bloatware was like family but I decided since I won't be overclocking this CPU that I can get almost as good performance with a much cheaper mobo. I tend to not want to cheap out on the mobo but the sticker shock of the other components made me do it. I decided against an upper-tier overclocking mobo because it seems the 13 Gen Intel CPUs are already OC'ed sufficiently with their burst modes which is a change from my last 3rd gen build.


I settled on the 6400-CL32 G.Skill Ripjaws because I feel it will be accepted easily by my XMP enabled mobo and that any higher speed RAM would only give small incremental performance improvement...and they don't have RGB and a low profile which is important if I air cool. 32 gb will NOT be enough one day - especially of I get a larger megapixel camera 5 years from now. But I can add RAM later when DDR5 is cheaper.


CPU cooler: I may go with Noctua if it fits however I've seen rave reviews with the Thermalight. My PC usage doesn't tax the CPU for extended periods so I don't think I should be too concerned about CPU throttling. I don't game or process video.


My thinking on the SSDs is that my OS and programs should go on the best fast SSD (and it should be on the CPU connected slot). With the 2nd SSD I reasoned that 3rd gen SSD is imperceptibly slower but cheaper. It is never the bottleneck so this is a good spot to shave off money.


GPU: My thoughts are I may build it with my current Radeon RX 460 and see how it performs. If I need the increased GPU power I can add a new GPU. I just added the Sapphire to the list as a place holder. My usage with LR does not hold me back. I have GPU acceleration turned off and I am able to use the local adjustment tools without delay. A GPU would improve the export time...It takes 15 seconds to export a photo. I'll see how must faster it gets with the better CPU. I may not need to spend CDN$600 to shave a few seconds off of the export time. My time isn't THAT valuable now that I'm retired -LOL. But it is a decision I can make once I see how my new build functions.


Power supply - I know I need to think more about that as it is a crucial part .


So here is what I've designed so far. Any further words of advice or warnings would be appreciated. Thanks for all of your great help!!


PCPartPicker Part List: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/XQCWk9


CPU: Intel Core i7-13700K 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 SE 66.17 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z790 AORUS ELITE AX ATX LGA1700 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws S5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6400 CL32 Memory
Storage: Samsung 980 Pro 1 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Storage: Crucial P3 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 3.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Video Card: Sapphire PULSE Radeon RX 6600 8 GB Video Card

Case: Lian Li LANCOOL 216 ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: NZXT C850 (2022) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
......plus some internal fans...airflow!
 
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Mar 15, 2023
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A good case with lots of airflow will let you use air cooling.
Noctua maintains a list of suitable air coolers for various processors.
Here is the list for the I7-13700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-13700K-1640
NH-D15 is the best, but it needs low profile ram and 165mm clearance.
NH-D15s is close and improves on compatibility.
I will research and tests that involved the Thermalright Peerless Assassin and the Noctuas. As I don't game or process video or even batchdevelop in Lightroom I don't imagine I'll be stressing my system for prolonged periods and wonder if thermal throttling would ever be an issue. Complicating the issue is that I do not use the AC in my house very often so the pc will be in room that can be 80-100 degrees in the 3 month summers in Toronto.