Need some assistance: BSOD on EP45-UD3P

jjd_quad

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I just purchased and built a system (specs below) and have dealt with constant instability. I am looking for a stable system at this time rather than OC. I am getting regular BSODs throughout the Windows install process and boot process after the install. I have swapped out memory and video card but the problem continues. I tried setting CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) and CPU EIST Function to disabled based upon other forums, but this did not help either:


Any help would be most appreciated.

Specs -
EP45-UD3P
Q9550
8GB GSKILL CL5-5-5-15 (4 modules x 2048MB)
HIS 4670 512MB GDDR3 Turbo
Smilodon Raidmax 500w case
RAID 0 (2x 640GB WD WD6401AALS)
MS VISTA HOME PREM X64
 

bilbat

Splendid
First thing to do is take out all but one RAM stick, the one in the DDR2_1 slot, and at powerup, enter the BIOS and execute the "Load Optimized Defaults" function. If you have the patience for it, download a copy of MemTest86+ here:
http://home.att.net/~chip.programmer/Memtest86/memtest86.211a.iso.zip
and test your sticks, one at a time, at least for a full pass; preferably overnight.
If not, we can just go forward and see if it works...
Put all your RAM back in, and so the following:

On the "Advanced BIOS Features" page:

"CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)" to "Disabled"
"C2/C2E State Support" to "Disabled"
"C4/C4E State Support" to "Disabled"
"CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2)" to "Enabled"
"CPU EIST Function" to "Disabled"
"Virtualization Technology" to "Enabled"
"Full Screen LOGO Show" to "Disabled"


On the "Integrated Peripherals" page:

"Legacy USB storage detect" (in newer BIOS, sometimes called "USB Storage Function" to "Disabled"


On the "Power Management Setup" page:

"ACPI Suspend Type" to "S1(POS)" (for now...)
"HPET Support" to "Enabled"
"HPET Mode" to "64-bit"


On the "MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)" page:

"Robust Graphics Booster" to "Auto"
"PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)" to "100" (not auto...)
"C.I.A.2" to "Disabled"

******** DRAM Performance Control ********

"Performance Enhance" to "Standard"

******** Mother Board Voltage Control ********

>>> MCH/ICH
"MCH Core" to "1.200" (a tenth 'bump' for four sticks...)

>>> DRAM
"DRAM Voltage" to "2.050" - this may already be set to 2.100 by the 'Optimized Defaults', if it is, leave it there for testing; but, if you have the RAM I think you do (F2-8500CL5D - robin's egg blue?) it will likely run at the lower voltage, which means it'll run cooler; my 8g is at 2.0V running 1080...


<F10> save & Exit, and give 'er a try!!

Getting two reboots in a row here is perfectly normal behavior; it seems that, when you change certain settings (and we don't exactly know which ones - the only sure one I know is Trd - if you change it, I think you get the 'twin' reboot) it boots once to 'see where it's at', recalculates its remaining 'auto' settings, saves them, and then boots again. Three reboots in a row, however, usually indicates that the board was 'given indigestion' by your settings, and is going back to defaults.

There is a mild, easy on the hardware overclock here, if you're interested in taking a peek:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/260710-30-ep45-ud3p-bios-question
 

jjd_quad

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Thanks for the suggestions bilbat and zipzoomflyhigh. Much appreciated. I will do some further testing with what you have provided.

In answer to your questions:

zipzoomflyhigh - no, i have not checked for Gskill recommendations. I will do that. also, you mentioned that my 500w was not adequate. I simply went by the very high ratings at newegg. should i consider getting another one?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156062

bilbat - yes, you are right on the memory type:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
thanks for the suggestions. i will get back to you once i have worked through them.
 

daship

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Its a known issue that installing windows with 8G of ram can cause problems. Install with 2 or 4g then run updates, and add your ram. You should be good to go. Your power supply is powerful enough for your rig.

Also running 8g will require .2 v increase over stock recomendations.
 

bilbat

Splendid
Say what? I use a boot manager, have XpProX86&X64; VistaUltX86&X64; and Win7βRC1X86&X64; all were installed with 8G in the box with nary a hitch; the two flavors of 7 probably a cumulative total of eight times in the last six or so months... My guess: a lot of people with eight gig don't have a stable eight gig; most MOBOs require tweaking to successfully (and stably) run eight; four will usually be stable at stock settings, once the MOBO has been 'forced' to read and set to the EPP values by a "Load Optimized Defaults" (exception: 4 x 1 setups; for some reason, 4 x 1 seems to be harder to get 'tweaked' than 4 x 2 - go figure!). The win installers are a pretty good 'stress test' all by themselves...
 

jjd_quad

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One more question as I am working through this. When I built the system, I found that my PS ATX 12v was a 2x2 rather than a 2x4. The MB is of course 2x4. After some forum surfing i found that you could plug in the 2x2 into the pins that fit. I did so. However, I am now wondering (in light of my problems with BSOD) if this might be contributing to the issue.

I will continue to work through the suggestions above, but thought I would throw this out there just in case a Q9550 is in need of the 2x4. If this MIGHT be contributing, should I get the 2x2 > 2x4 adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812706002), or a new PS?
 

bilbat

Splendid
ahhh - that's a ninety-five watt processor (unless you've got the 9550s low-power [65W] version - you should know as you would have paid extra for it, it carries sSpec# SLGAE); you're getting up into the territory where you probably do want the 2x4; my offhand guess is that it might run OK so long as you're running everything completely stock - voltages, frequencies... The adapter situation is pretty much an unknown, as well. The web site for your case doesn't really give much useful info: number of rails, current available on each; I finally found and pulled down the manual, and it's not much better. The adapters are so cheap, the best thing would probably be to just get one and try it - but make the changes above first - might cure the whole problem. If you want to do any kind of serious overclock, the power supply is probably your weakest link, but that doesn't mean you can't try it to find out. If you're going to get an adapter, you might be better off to buy it locally, if you can, as shipping will likely be higher than the part, unless you can combine it with some other purchases...
 

jjd_quad

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Thanks for the feedback, bilbat. Looks like I should have done more homework on my power supply before I purchased. Lesson learned. I will move forward with what I have for now as you suggested.

If you have some suggestions for what to look for in a power supply (or models you recommend), I would appreciate it. Might just get a new one at some point instead of the adapter. Hate to throw good money after bad.
 

bilbat

Splendid
I use Zalmans, but there are any number of really good ones out there; what you want to do is download the manuals first - if the manufacturer doesn't make it easy to get, or if it's not thorough, pass on it. What you're looking for is something like this:
0033.jpg

not the specific numbers, but actual disclosure (compare this page to the manual for your PSU); you want at least a couple of twelve volt rails, with full specs...
 

jjd_quad

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bilbat -
Looking good so far. I ran numerous passes on each RAM stick without error. This evening, I changed the settings to all the ones you suggested (except DRAM voltage; I could only select 2.040V, not 2.050V).

I have been running stable for the past 3 hours on 2GB of RAM. I will try adding additional RAM tomorrow morning.

Thanks for your help so far!
 

jjd_quad

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As soon as I put in the full 8GB I experienced numerous BSOD...

I will run more passes on Memtest during the day, but wondered about next steps when I continue my testing.
 

bilbat

Splendid
If the G-skill is 2.1v, then it should have been set to 2.1v from the start. I really dont get the logic of starting lower than what the manufacturer recommends.

I have a fair bit of experience with that RAM, and it often runs at or well over spec'd speed at well under spec'd voltage; my policy is, in general, to keep all voltages as low as 'workable' to minimize electromigration issues, which kill more overclocked parts than heat; and, of course, lowering the voltage correspondingly lowers the thermal load, too...
 

jjd_quad

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Well, I took the RAM to 2.1 and the MCH to 1.260. It started crashing so quickly that I could not even get halfway through the windows boot up.

I then tried taking it back to 2.040v on the RAM and 1.200 on the MCH on 4GB of RAM. It remained stable over the course of 4 hours (longer than I have yet had my machine stable) before losing power due to thunderstorms. So the same settings that worked for 2GB and 4GB would not work for 8GB.

Then I started it up this evening (without making any changes) and it is completely unstable at 4GB again. I am admittedly perplexed.

I have service pack 1 and all available updates (this is 64bit home prem).

In order to eliminate the potential issue of the PSU ATX 12v 2x4 pin, I ordered a new PSU. Just not worth wondering about with all that is going on. Should be here Friday or Monday, so I will run through some of the above settings again once I have that in place.
 

bilbat

Splendid
It certainly will be worthwhile to know that that 9550 is being 'fed well' enough to work up to par; no amount of RAM tuning can fix a CPU glitch...

...till the weekend!

Bill
 

jjd_quad

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Back again. 750w Zalmans powering this thing with the 2x4 ATX 12v. I went back through the instructions above, but 8GB continues to be incredibly unstable. BSODs of various flavors. When I do get into Windows, I last for about 5 minutes. Something is clearly misaligned...any further thoughts would be most welcomed.
 

bilbat

Splendid
Have you, by this point, tested each stick of RAM individually, one at a time? At least a full pass of MemTest86+, preferably overnight? Once again, each stick in the slot closest to the CPU, do a "Load Optimized Defaults" to get all the autos set (only need to do this with the first stick - the rest should just use the same setup) right, & let 'er rip - may just be a bad stick (though I've yet to see one...)! Just for general reference, your Load Optimized should result in a 333 host clock (1333 FSB), and 8.5 CPU mult, 2.1 V on the RAM, and the 3.2 memory mult on the 333 latch (strap)...
 

jjd_quad

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Yes, I tested each stick of Ram.

Last night I tried changing the memory frequency from 1066 to 800, and explicitly stating the memory timings rather than AUTO. I have been stable on 8GB ever since. Seems I am not the only person struggling with stability using a combination of this board and memory -
http://gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=1169

For the time being, I will probably stay on 800MHz, at least until I can find a solid alternate solution.
 

bilbat

Splendid
OK - individual testing should have caught any possible hardware problems on any single stick; don't take offense, but I believe the set of parameters that I referred you to should take care of the rest, as it has worked on a few fairly identical systems already, unless you actually have a malfuntion of some sort on the MOBO itself, or have a USB devices triggering one of the panoply of bizarre troubles they can cause - see this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261902-30-gigabyte-tale

I'm going to repost the parameter set in one chunk, with both stock CPU clocking, and the 20% bump other people have working, just to be sure some critical setting's not been missed, beause the original posting is kind of diffused across a few entries:


On the "Advanced BIOS Features" page:

"CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)" to "Disabled"
"C2/C2E State Support" to "Disabled"
"C4/C4E State Support" to "Disabled"
"CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2)" to "Enabled"
"CPU EIST Function" to "Disabled"
"Virtualization Technology" to "Enabled" if using MS', Sun's, or VM_Ware's virtualization s'ware, else "Disabled"
"Full Screen LOGO Show" to "Disabled"
"Dual BIOS Recovery Source" manual doesn't show the alternative, and my BIOS don't have this feature - my guess is it's "Backup" - anyway, we want whatever else it gives other than "HPA", 'cause we haven't created an HPA yet... (whatever an HPA is?) [let me know if you have this; my manuals show it, but no one so far has actually found it in their BIOS]


On the "Integrated Peripherals" page:

Your manual shows "Legacy USB storage detect", but later BIOS say "USB Storage Function" - either way, set to "Disabled"


On the "Power Management Setup" page:

"ACPI Suspend Type" to "S1(POS)" (for now...)
"HPET Support" to "Enabled"
"HPET Mode" to whichever OS type you're running - "32-bit" if an x86 version, "64-bit" if an x64 version...

On the "MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)" page:

"Robust Graphics Booster" to "Auto"
"CPU Clock Ratio" to "8"
"Fine CPU Clock Ratio" to ".5"
"CPU Frequency" - this one can't be set, it's calculated, and will change when we set the next few items...

******** Clock Chip Control ********
>>>>> Standard Clock Control

"CPU Host Clock Control" to "Enabled"
"CPU Host Frequency (Mhz)" to "334" for stock (2.83GHz) CPU timing, "401" for 20% 'bump' to 3.4GHz
"PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)" to "100" (not auto...)
"C.I.A.2" to "Disabled"

******** DRAM Performance Control ********
"Performance Enhance" to "Standard"
"Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)" to "Disabled"
"(G)MCH Frequency Latch" to "333" for stock CPU timing, "400" for 20% 'bump' to 3.4GHz
"System Memory Multiplier (SPD)" to "3.2" (may have a 'B' or '#' after it) for stock, "2.66" (may have a 'D' after it) for 'bumped'

I think your separate "(G)MCH Frequency Latch" which we mostly refer to as a 'strap', and "Memory Multiplier" may relieve you of having to keep track of these by a cryptic letter or symbol in the multiplier table; with yours, you just tell it 'this one'! The strap is the reason we used a 334 clock instead of a nice even 333: the 'straps' are sets of northbridge timings - much like memory latencies, the faster you go, the 'looser' the timings have to be... There are four straps, corresponding to the Intel FSB ratings: 200 (800FSB), 266 (1066FSB), 333 (1333FSB), and 400 (1600FSB - Intel actually does make a 1600 FSB CPU - the QX9775 - but, I think, it's over $1500 a pop!); each strap has it's own set of available memory multipliers (ratios). The 3.2 we used (which is actually a 8:5 bus to bus ratio) is available only on the 333 strap. Anyway, the strap latencies, for some northbridges, don't 'kick in' until one over the selected strap; so, in other words, setting the clock to 334 guarantees that we're getting the 333 latencies/timings...

"Memory Frequency (Mhz)" - again, can't be set, it's calculated...
"DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD)" to "Manual"

>>>>> Standard Timing Control
"CAS Latency Time" to "5"
"tRCD" to "5"
"tRP" to "5"
"tRAS" to "15"

>>>>> Advanced Timing Control (these should have been set by the "Load Optimized Defaults", but in case - check 'em
"tRRD" to "4"
"tWTR" to "4"
"tWR" to "13"
"tRFC" to "68" (may be able to lower later, I run mine at 1080 with 52 here...)
"tRTP" to "4"
"Command Rate (CMD)" to "2"

>>>>> Channel A/B Timings - the only thing you need to check here is:
"Static tRead Value" should be at at least 7

"Load-Line Calibration" to "Disabled" (this works differently on different boards - on mine, it's worse "enabled" than "disabled" - the function is supposed to cure a phenomenon called Vdroop - the CPU voltage regulation circuit causes the CPU core voltage to sag, or 'droop' under high loadings; hopefullt, we're going to be at a low enough voltage to just ignore this...)

"CPU Vcore" to "Auto" for standard timing, "1.3500V" for 'bumped'

>>> MCH/ICH
"MCH Core" to "1.200V" to run four sticks
>>> DRAM
"DRAM Voltage" to "2.1V" (might be expressed as "+.30V" as JEDEC spec is 1.8V, so +.3 is 2.1V)

and an <F10> to save and exit - may reboot twice, let 'er rip!

Good luck!

Bill
 

jjd_quad

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thanks for all of the information restated. i will take another look at it, perhaps this weekend. the additional 20% "bump" would be nice, too. i appreciate the time you have taken to help me. i will let you know how it goes.
 

jjd_quad

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In your consolidated info above, the standard timing controls are as follows:

>>>>> Standard Timing Control
"CAS Latency Time" to "5"
"tRCD" to "5"
"tRP" to "5"
"tRAS" to "5"

just want to confirm...is the tRAS supposed to be 5 or 15?
 

jjd_quad

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is there any chance at all that my RAID 0 config is causing problems...? that seems to be the only other thing I can see that is different from the specs that you have listed...
 

jjd_quad

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Gigabyte provides a Drivers CD with the mobo. My bios is EP45-UD3P FA. And my memory is listed as 4GB(!) even though I have 8GB installed right now...

Haven't flashed the bios. Should I consider that as well?