[SOLVED] Need some help deciding which Alder Lake CPU to purchase

[dmavro]

Hey guys/ gals,

Ive been planning on building a new PC with an Alder Lake CPU since end of last year and finally decided last week that it’s time to pull the trigger. Im pretty sure I damaged something at one point last year when I was making my first attempts at Java development while trying to code a few addons for a trading program I use. I had no clue what I was doing and while I was in my testing/debugging phase I left the program running one night to collect data and when I woke up the next morning my system was pegged at 100%, the fans in my H100iv2 were making a horrible shrieking sound and the system was completely unresponsive. After looking at logs I was ableto figure out it was in that state for over 5-1/2 hours. Ever since then the PC has never run the same. It did run fine for the most part but I started seeing things that had never happened before with this rig. Odd, little things, that im not going to get into in this post. I reinstalled windows 10 multiple times because the problems really appeared to be an issue with windows. But just recently I started having indicators in my trading programs spit out bad calculations. Indicators that I know have no problems and that ive been using for over a decade without issues. At other times some indicators just stop updating completely (while my data feed was still 100% stable.) Usually when something happens with any of the trading programs i use a quick restart of the program corrects the issue but now when I see the bad calculations being spit out by the program a restart of the entire PC is now required to correct any issues. Besides the issues that im seeing(more and more frequently) the 2 programs ive been using together really take their toll on my current build due to me constantly growing as a trader and developing new algos that require more from the PC.

So with all that being said im trying to decide if I should stick with my original idea of building a rig with a brand spanking new i9-12900k or if I should maybe reconsider and purchase a 12700k? Only reason im reconsidering is because I had someone really stress to me that the new i9 is basically a space heater due to its power requirements and that the i7 is better choice because it runs a lot cooler and is basically just as good a CPU benchmark wise.

I really don’t need make my home office any hotter then it already is. Im at the point now where I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have central air for summer months and windows to open in winter because it would be unbearable if I didn’t.

My biggest concern besides making sure I build a PC that will handle everything im going to throw at the moment , is making sure I futureproof for quite some time.

My current build is..…

CPU: I7-7820x 4.3 ghz (running 4.3ghz OC constantly)
MOBO: Asus TUF x299 Mark 2
RAM: 64gb 3200mhz G.Skill Ram (running at 3000mhz)
HD: NVME Samsung 970 500GB, Samsung 850 pro 512GB
GPU’s: 2x Visiontek Radeon HD 7750’s SFF 2gb GDDR5
AIO: Corsair H100i v2(top mount, took fan from top of case and repurposed it to side panel)
Case: Thermaltake HAF922
PSU: EVGA 750 G3

….. My question is should I expect a big change in ambient room temperatures due to running a PC with 12900k over my current build? Also, could there possibly be big difference between the 12700k and the 12900k?

Id also like to avoid OC’ing this time around if possible(ill find out if I can get away without after I get things up and running) so that hopefully should keep the temps a lower in the new build.


Thank you in advance,
Dean

 

[white.a.drew]

Hey guys/ gals,

Ive been planning on building a new PC with an Alder Lake CPU since end of last year and finally decided last week that it’s time to pull the trigger. Im pretty sure I damaged something at one point last year when I was making my first attempts at Java development while trying to code a few addons for a trading program I use. I had no clue what I was doing and while I was in my testing/debugging phase I left the program running one night to collect data and when I woke up the next morning my system was pegged at 100%, the fans in my H100iv2 were making a horrible shrieking sound and the system was completely unresponsive. After looking at logs I was ableto figure out it was in that state for over 5-1/2 hours. Ever since then the PC has never run the same. It did run fine for the most part but I started seeing things that had never happened before with this rig. Odd, little things, that im not going to get into in this post. I reinstalled windows 10 multiple times because the problems really appeared to be an issue with windows. But just recently I started having indicators in my trading programs spit out bad calculations. Indicators that I know have no problems and that ive been using for over a decade without issues. At other times some indicators just stop updating completely (while my data feed was still 100% stable.) Usually when something happens with any of the trading programs i use a quick restart of the program corrects the issue but now when I see the bad calculations being spit out by the program a restart of the entire PC is now required to correct any issues. Besides the issues that im seeing(more and more frequently) the 2 programs ive been using together really take their toll on my current build due to me constantly growing as a trader and developing new algos that require more from the PC.

So with all that being said im trying to decide if I should stick with my original idea of building a rig with a brand spanking new i9-12900k or if I should maybe reconsider and purchase a 12700k? Only reason im reconsidering is because I had someone really stress to me that the new i9 is basically a space heater due to its power requirements and that the i7 is better choice because it runs a lot cooler and is basically just as good a CPU benchmark wise.

I really don’t need make my home office any hotter then it already is. Im at the point now where I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have central air for summer months and windows to open in winter because it would be unbearable if I didn’t.

My biggest concern besides making sure I build a PC that will handle everything im going to throw at the moment , is making sure I futureproof for quite some time.

My current build is..…

CPU: I7-7820x 4.3 ghz (running 4.3ghz OC constantly)
MOBO: Asus TUF x299 Mark 2
RAM: 64gb 3200mhz G.Skill Ram (running at 3000mhz)
GPU’s: 2x Visiontek Radeon HD 7750’s SFF 2gb GDDR5
AIO: Corsair H100i v2(top mount, took fan from top of case and repurposed it to side panel)
Case: Thermaltake HAF922
PSU: EVGA 750 G3

….. My question is should I expect a big change in ambient room temperatures due to running a PC with 12900k over my current build? Also, could there possibly be big difference between the 12700k and the 12900k?

Id also like to avoid OC’ing this time around if possible(ill find out if I can get away without after I get things up and running) so that hopefully should keep the temps a lower in the new build.


Thank you in advance,
Dean

Since your build have you updated you bios and I see you set the ram timings offset by 1 step lower to over calculate for your oc have you done any stress test to verify everything is 100% stable and the offsets aren't bugging the cpu cache with low volts or anything

 

[white.a.drew]

Hey guys/ gals,

Ive been planning on building a new PC with an Alder Lake CPU since end of last year and finally decided last week that it’s time to pull the trigger. Im pretty sure I damaged something at one point last year when I was making my first attempts at Java development while trying to code a few addons for a trading program I use. I had no clue what I was doing and while I was in my testing/debugging phase I left the program running one night to collect data and when I woke up the next morning my system was pegged at 100%, the fans in my H100iv2 were making a horrible shrieking sound and the system was completely unresponsive. After looking at logs I was ableto figure out it was in that state for over 5-1/2 hours. Ever since then the PC has never run the same. It did run fine for the most part but I started seeing things that had never happened before with this rig. Odd, little things, that im not going to get into in this post. I reinstalled windows 10 multiple times because the problems really appeared to be an issue with windows. But just recently I started having indicators in my trading programs spit out bad calculations. Indicators that I know have no problems and that ive been using for over a decade without issues. At other times some indicators just stop updating completely (while my data feed was still 100% stable.) Usually when something happens with any of the trading programs i use a quick restart of the program corrects the issue but now when I see the bad calculations being spit out by the program a restart of the entire PC is now required to correct any issues. Besides the issues that im seeing(more and more frequently) the 2 programs ive been using together really take their toll on my current build due to me constantly growing as a trader and developing new algos that require more from the PC.

So with all that being said im trying to decide if I should stick with my original idea of building a rig with a brand spanking new i9-12900k or if I should maybe reconsider and purchase a 12700k? Only reason im reconsidering is because I had someone really stress to me that the new i9 is basically a space heater due to its power requirements and that the i7 is better choice because it runs a lot cooler and is basically just as good a CPU benchmark wise.

I really don’t need make my home office any hotter then it already is. Im at the point now where I don’t know what I would do if I didn’t have central air for summer months and windows to open in winter because it would be unbearable if I didn’t.

My biggest concern besides making sure I build a PC that will handle everything im going to throw at the moment , is making sure I futureproof for quite some time.

My current build is..…

CPU: I7-7820x 4.3 ghz (running 4.3ghz OC constantly)
MOBO: Asus TUF x299 Mark 2
RAM: 64gb 3200mhz G.Skill Ram (running at 3000mhz)
GPU’s: 2x Visiontek Radeon HD 7750’s SFF 2gb GDDR5
AIO: Corsair H100i v2(top mount, took fan from top of case and repurposed it to side panel)
Case: Thermaltake HAF922
PSU: EVGA 750 G3

….. My question is should I expect a big change in ambient room temperatures due to running a PC with 12900k over my current build? Also, could there possibly be big difference between the 12700k and the 12900k?

Id also like to avoid OC’ing this time around if possible(ill find out if I can get away without after I get things up and running) so that hopefully should keep the temps a lower in the new build.


Thank you in advance,
Dean

You probably don't need to buy anything you have a Asus board I bet we can solve this now

 

[Lafong]

"….. My question is should I expect a big change in ambient room temperatures due to running a PC with 12900k over my current build? Also, could there possibly be big difference between the 12700k and the 12900k?"

How much is big?

86 ambient rather than 76?

80 rather than 76?

Nobody knows at what point you would draw the line.

More importantly:

What is your best evidence that the programs you personally use (trading programs I guess) would benefit from the 12900k rather than the 12700k?

Most likely they would..............to some extent.

A big extent? Again, how much would big have to be to cause you to go for the 12900k?

I'm guessing this is all a "for profit" enterprise since you mention trading. Trading stocks? What has been the past correlation between CPU speed and your profit and loss?

 

[Eximo]

Max power for the 12700k is listed as 190W, Max power for the 12900k is 241W. Four more E-cores and a higher boost clock, that is the difference there.

Your CPU was listed at 140W, but you mention it is overclocked. What voltage? What is its power draw under your typical load?

Alderlake is quite efficient, all things considered, but AMD chips are almost if not more efficient at the low end. Intel seems to be winning at the high end for the moment. 5950x will get you 16 full cores (32 threads) rather than 8 P cores and 8 E cores (24 threads)

Might also consider that Alderlake CPUs will have integrated graphics capable of running a good number of displays (4), so you could potentially drop your GPUs depending on your screen setup. (Or you could pick up something like a GT1030 + the Intel graphics to use a little less power) and reduce your computer's heat output that way.

You may also need to get an adapter for your CPU cooler depending on the motherboard you select. Pretty sure the H100i v2 supports the AM4 socket, so that would be another small reason to go AMD.

AMD Pro series chips tend to support ECC memory, depends mostly on the motherboard. DDR5 does have built in ECC, so that is a positive when it comes to number crunching.

I also can't say how trading is effected by CPU performance, faster calculations to make your decisions, but wouldn't the bottleneck potentially be the human factor? Unless you are going full automation...

 

[dmavro]

Since your build have you updated you bios and I see you set the ram timings offset by 1 step lower to over calculate for your oc have you done any stress test to verify everything is 100% stable and the offsets aren't bugging the cpu cache with low volts or anything

Since your build have you updated you bios and I see you set the ram timings offset by 1 step lower to over calculate for your oc have you done any stress test to verify everything is 100% stable and the offsets aren't bugging the cpu cache with low volts or anything

I try to stay on top of things like that. I used to keep bios's 1 or 2 versions behind current version depending on manufacturer but when i started having issues with this build i started going with current bios’s.


I upgraded Ram from 32Gb 2666mhz kit in November because i needed more capacity so i bought a higher speed kit figuring wth. After installing, setting XMP and changing speed to 3200 i checked timings and voltage and all seemed to be correct but it would never pass stress testing even after attempting to change voltages in bios. But when i lowered to 3000mhz and tweaked bios a bit i was able get it to pass prime95 and a few blender runs without issues.


I actually had already been having issues before i upgraded Ram. After using the PC 24 hours a day for over a year and a half it started to have little hiccups during the day when the market got really busy. It couldnt handle what i was throwing at it at times so thats when i decided to try and OC it instead of upgrading to a new build. After a couple of nights of tweaking settings and stress testing( I also followed a x299 OC guide Linus did) i was able to get a stable build at 4.5ghz all cores which passed prime95 and a few Blender runs. But last summer i noticed issues again and i finally decided to stress test again it didnt pass anymore. I finally lowered the OC from 4.5 all cores to 4.5(best 2) and 4.3 for the rest. Then in the fall again i noticed some really weird issues, reinstalled windows again thinking i had corruptions in some thing somewhere and still had issues so lowered OC again to 4.3 all cores.

If i get time ill try and stress test again this weekend. But i just decided while typing this that if this computer is still perfectly fine to use(after getting to the bottom of the issue) then im going to make it my backup PC anyway. Im currently running a program I wrote years ago in excel on an ancient Dell T3400. It has an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850 in it. The thing is so slow but i dont ask much of it. Its more then paid its dues and deserves to be put to rest so if i can get my other rig running well again then it will take its place.

Thank for responding!

 

[dmavro]

You probably don't need to buy anything you have a Asus board I bet we can solve this now

I am so time constricted at the moment that i really cant keep fiddling with it anymore. Later on when i get a chance ill try and get to bottom of it one last time but for now im going to build a new rig. Ultimately i hope i can figure it out because id like to continue using the PC for another application that i run during day.

Thanks for responding.

 

[logainofhades]

How old is that PSU? If my memory serves me right, the G3, was quite inferior to the G2, quality wise. Use crystaldiskinfo to check the health of your storage drives.

 

[dmavro]

"….. My question is should I expect a big change in ambient room temperatures due to running a PC with 12900k over my current build? Also, could there possibly be big difference between the 12700k and the 12900k?"

How much is big?

86 ambient rather than 76?

80 rather than 76?

Nobody knows at what point you would draw the line.

More importantly:

What is your best evidence that the programs you personally use (trading programs I guess) would benefit from the 12900k rather than the 12700k?

Most likely they would..............to some extent.

A big extent? Again, how much would big have to be to cause you to go for the 12900k?

I'm guessing this is all a "for profit" enterprise since you mention trading. Trading stocks? What has been the past correlation between CPU speed and your profit and loss?

Good points. Let me change the question a bit then..... Bottom line is it doesnt matter what kind of cooling i have or what fans i have in my case, the heat is generated and has to go somewhere. So if thats the case then how much more heat should i expect the i9 to generate and how much more should i expect the i7 to generate when they are both compared to my 7820x(in a general sense, estimated if need be)?

I was thinking i9 for a few reasons.

1. I can get it for $499 right now from the microcenter near me (instead of the $600+ ive seen it for everywhere else.)
2. I am constantly expanding my horizons and growing as a trader and my PC requirements keep growing accordingly so i thought it would be nice to future proof as much as possible.
3. Company i started dealing with last year now recommends i9 or Ryzen9 now(Im an intel guy).

The company has 3 different tiers that there users fall under. Here are there recommendations for heavy use cases which i fall well into....

Windows 10
Minimum of 1920x1080 display resolution ¹
Modern video card with a minimum of 1 GB memory supporting OpenGL 3.3. Requirements go up as you connect more/bigger monitors.
32 GB RAM. More if you run other software in background. ³
SSD for Data folder with 100 GB of free disk space. More if you want to keep more data loaded (e.g. leave program running for a week retaining data. Around 50GiB/day is usually enough, but depending on number of instruments you might want more)
Modern Intel Core i9/AMD Ryzen 9 (or equivalent) or better. 8+ cores. ² ⁴ Able to stay above 3GHz consistently. ⁵
Stable internet connection with speed of at least 100Mbit/s and low package loss. Be careful with using WiFi or DOCSIS.
.NET 3.5
¹ Effective resolution (assuming scaling is set to 100%). For example 1920x1080 display meets the requirements with 100% display scaling, but does not meet the requirements if scaling is set to 150%, as resolution gets effectively divided by 1.5 in that case, becoming 1280x720. However you can tell system not to scale by changing "Override high DPI scaling behavior" to "Application" under "Compatibility"->"Change high DPI settings" inside programs shortcut properties.


Nothing real crazy in the recommendations/requirements but they do mention i9/Ryzen 9 for my use case . However, the new 12th gens were not out when they updated the requirements at one point last year.


Thanks for also responding

 

[dmavro]

How old is that PSU? If my memory serves me right, the G3, was quite inferior to the G2, quality wise. Use crystaldiskinfo to check the health of your storage drives.

Its the EVGA SuperNova G3. I purchased it in 2018 from microcenter. Actually ran crystaldiskinfo and had no issues. Just realized i left out my HD configuration in my original post. Will add it now.

 

[Lafong]

..............how much more heat should i expect the i9 to generate and how much more should i expect the i7 to generate when they are both compared to my 7820x(in a general sense, estimated if need be)?

...........I was thinking i9 for a few reasons.

However, the new 12th gens were not out when they updated the requirements at one point last year.

How much more heat?

Suppose you get a detailed answer from a highly qualified thermal engineer, where he gives you a bunch of figures, BTU data, dissipation rates, and the rest of it.

That wouldn't tell you much. It wouldn't take into account your personal sensitivity to heat, being uncomfortable, sensitivity to air conditioning expense, size of your room, etc.

Offhand, I'd speculate that you would be dealing with buyer's remorse in short order if you didn't get as strong a CPU as you could afford.....even though those recommendations were written for an earlier generation.

If you want a few laughs, you might contact your trading platform supplier and ask them to document their recommendations. It reads like boilerplate intended to intimidate you and convince you that you'd be a hopeless commoner with anything less......"if I'd only bought that i9, I would have had a better outcome with this fabulous software. It's all my fault".

 

[Why_Me]

That cpu down below uses less power and creates less heat.

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-TUF-H670-PRO-D4-Motherboard/dp/B09NWFPC34
ASUS TUF Gaming H670-PRO WiFi D4 $229.00

TUF GAMING H670-PRO WIFI D4｜Motherboards｜ASUS Global

TUF Gaming series distills essential elements of the latest AMD and Intel® platforms, and combines them with game-ready features and proven durability. Engineered with military-grade components, an upgraded power solution and a comprehensive set of cooling options, this motherboard delivers...

www.asus.com

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1675546-REG/intel_bx8071512700f_core_i7_12700f_desktop_processor.html
Intel Core i7-12700F $312.97

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...2700f-processor-25m-cache-up-to-4-90-ghz.html

https://www.amazon.com/DeepCool-AK620-High-Performance-Dual-Tower-Dissipation/dp/B09CSXS3X4
DeepCool AK620 CPU Cooler $64.99

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/deepcool-ak620-review

Review of that cpu w/benchmarks.

https://www.techspot.com/review/2391-intel-core-i7-12700/

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydgN4W97Esk&t=678s

 

[dmavro]

Max power for the 12700k is listed as 190W, Max power for the 12900k is 241W. Four more E-cores and a higher boost clock, that is the difference there.

Your CPU was listed at 140W, but you mention it is overclocked. What voltage? What is its power draw under your typical load?

Alderlake is quite efficient, all things considered, but AMD chips are almost if not more efficient at the low end. Intel seems to be winning at the high end for the moment. 5950x will get you 16 full cores (32 threads) rather than 8 P cores and 8 E cores (24 threads)

Might also consider that Alderlake CPUs will have integrated graphics capable of running a good number of displays (4), so you could potentially drop your GPUs depending on your screen setup. (Or you could pick up something like a GT1030 + the Intel graphics to use a little less power) and reduce your computer's heat output that way.

You may also need to get an adapter for your CPU cooler depending on the motherboard you select. Pretty sure the H100i v2 supports the AM4 socket, so that would be another small reason to go AMD.

AMD Pro series chips tend to support ECC memory, depends mostly on the motherboard. DDR5 does have built in ECC, so that is a positive when it comes to number crunching.

I also can't say how trading is effected by CPU performance, faster calculations to make your decisions, but wouldn't the bottleneck potentially be the human factor? Unless you are going full automation...

Cant remember my voltages off hand. Will have to check tomorrow during day. One of the reasons im sticking with the Alderlakes is the fact that they have integrated graphics like you mentioned. Reason being is that im worried about how im going to run 7 monitors on the new build. Curious about something, Ive only seen LGA1700 mobo’s with 2 graphics ports(usually 1DP and 1 HDMI) but you mention how Alderlake can support up to 4 displays. Is that accomplished with daisy chaining via the DP’s on the mobo’s or are there other mobo’s I haven’t stumbled upon yet that have 4 ports?

One of my biggest concerns is how im going to get support for 7 or 8 monitors. Currently im using those HD7750's (to run 6- 27” 4k monitors and 1- 24” HD monitor) and they work fine but not sure if I really want to reuse those. I would like to get something in the 6GB to 8GB range instead and id much rather go back to Nvidia. A lot of the guys who are using the same program as me are running rigs with RTX 3060’s and some even have RTX 3090’s but they don’t have as many monitors as me and some of them actually game too. I would just like to be able to run the new MS Flight Simulator but its not a requirement. Im also going to end up needing one of the HD7750’s for the build that they are already in but that’s only if I can work out the issues the build has at the moment.



Im amazed by the power requirements for the GPU’s ive been researching compared to the 55W I believe the HD7750’s each need. Most are upward of 540W per card and im going to need two of them if that’s even possible to pull off.

Im purchasing all new parts for this build so the H100iv2 wont be reused plus if I can get existing build back up and run without any issues then I will need it in that rig still anyway.



Not concerned about ECC but do intend to get 64GB DDR5 RAM. Just trying to decide on RAM speed. 4800mhz standard is a lot faster than anything ive ever run but considering you can buy 5200mhz and even some 5600mhz kits from G.Skill for not that much more Im really considering going with the higher speeds.

Got my eyes on the ASUS ROG Strix Z690-E Gaming Mobo. Need to checkout the VRM’s online to make sure they are decent enough just in case I do end up having to or just end up deciding to OC but pretty sure that’s the one im going with. See any reason that would be a bad choice?

Also need to figure out what AIO im going to go with. Plan on a 360mm but have no clue what to get.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Eximo]

Is that accomplished with daisy chaining via the DP’s on the mobo’s or are there other mobo’s I haven’t stumbled upon yet that have 4 ports?

Possibly, but I doubt it. Yes, getting monitors that support daisy chaining would be ideal. Also boards with thunderbolt that would support getting a thunderbolt display/usb hub.

RTX cards tend to support 4 displays out of the box. So worst case you can pick up an RTX3050, or perhaps some RX 6500 XT.

Can't really think of a card off hand that uses 540W. Even the big boys are topping out around 350W. And you don't need two, one if you want to game, and then any other display adapter to get you your screens.


Not concerned about ECC but do intend to get 64GB DDR5 RAM. Just trying to decide on RAM speed. 4800mhz standard is a lot faster than anything ive ever run but considering you can buy 5200mhz and even some 5600mhz kits from G.Skill for not that much more Im really considering going with the higher speeds.

Faster is generally better. Though DDR5 has much looser timings than DDR4, the fastest DDR4 kits actually perform as well or better in some workloads due to the lower latency. DDR4 4000 at CL14 isn't too pricey comparatively. Also been reports of problems running 4 DDR5 sticks at high speeds. Mixing even the same kits have proven problematic.


Got my eyes on the ASUS ROG Strix Z690-E Gaming Mobo. Need to checkout the VRM’s online to make sure they are decent enough just in case I do end up having to or just end up deciding to OC but pretty sure that’s the one im going with. See any reason that would be a bad choice?

I haven't been following the motherboards much, but typically the Strix line from ASUS are well above the basic ones. I wouldn't have much of a concern using that one.


Also need to figure out what AIO im going to go with. Plan on a 360mm but have no clue what to get.

Really not many to pick from. Cool-it, Asetek are the majority of the ones out there. Just pick one you like the look of with LGA1700 support. Unless you branch into the all copper or expandable models from the likes of EK, Swiftech, and Alphacool.