Need suggestions- fast, Mini ITX low power non-gaming build

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milosz

milosz

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Dec 10, 2006
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Hi

A nice, but small, Antec mini-ITX case came my way. It has a non-standard size 150 watt power supply. So, only 150 watts, and no way to upgrade that.

I want to build the fastest non-gaming PC for things like browsing the web, doing a few Microsoft Office documents, watching Netflix 1080p, etc. So no need for heavy 3D gpu capability, integrated video should be fine.

Do I maybe want an i3-8100? Or an i5-8400- same TDP as the i3 but more cores and faster clock.... Or is there some Intel mobile - type CPU that I can get in a mini ITX motherboard?

This will be a Windows 10 pro - 64 box. I have a suitable SSD for this project, a Samsung Evo, 256 GB or thereabouts. I am thinking about 2 x 4 GB DDR4 for this build.

Would love to hear some suggestions.
 
Solution
James Mason
Office, Web browsing, netflix, are all single core operations, so an i3 will be fine.
faster ram won't help, but having enough, i.e. 8gbs should be.

That i7 is basically a huge waste of money, it's not going to make a noticeable difference in speed because you don't do any heavy lifting with that.
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You already chose CPU, SSD, Case+PSU and you are right about the RAM as well. You will need a Z370 miniITX motherboard, there are not many on the market:
ASRock Z370M-ITX/ac (90-MXB620-A0UAYZ)
Gigabyte Z370N WIFI
MSI Z370I Gaming Pro Carbon AC (7B43-003R)
ASRock Fatal1ty Z370 Gaming-ITX/ac (90-MXB670-A0UAYZ)
ASUS ROG Strix Z370-I Gaming (90MB0VK0-M0EAY0)
And you need no dedicated GPU, use intel graphics!
Depending on how much space you have in the case, you might consider changing the intel cooler to an after-market one:
be quiet! Shadow Rock LP (BK002)
Noctua NH-L9x65
Noctua NH-L12S
 
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I'd go with something like this
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i3-8350K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($166.99 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($24.90 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370M-ITX/ac Mini ITX LGA1151 Motherboard ($130.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($87.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate - FireCuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($99.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($92.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $603.65
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2018-02-06 07:23 EST-0500
 
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I would save the OS cost and buy it online key, and use the money saved for a I5 8400 with 6 cores.
 
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That is the same price as the online key, roughly. If you are talking about the discount Kinguin or similar site, that's not recommended, supported, endorsed by any recognised poster, helper, herald, mod or as far as TH and Purch Group Inc is concerned.
 
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The case is an Antec ISK 310-150, I've looked and could find nothing compatible to upgrade the PSU, which mounts to the side with a long cable going to the back of the case for the IEC AC power socket.... have a look https://archive.benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/cases/Antec_ISK-310-150/Antec_ISK_Int_Body.jpg

FYI I have Windows 10 Pro 64 already, I have multiple licenses on hand. I also have some SSDs, I have an NVME Samsung 960 EVO 250 GB, also a SATA 2.5" Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB. I don't need much local storage for documents or other content, there's lots of NAS space available where this machine will be used.

The challenge is finding the CPU that gives the most "speed" to the user for browsing and typical MS Office applications and so on, but still saying under 150 watts total.

There's no need for WiFi, powerful 3d graphics, etc, which saves some power. I think it comes down to finding the CPU that fits the power envelope with the most single-thread performance. i3, i5, i7 all have multiple cores so they can all do multithreaded background tasks, obviously the i7 can do a lot more multithreaded stuff than i5 or i3, but I wonder how much multithread power impacts the user's experience of "speed" versus the CPU's raw single-core ability.

My experience seems to indicate that the users' experience of speed comes down to a combination of raw single-core power, disk performance and so some degree chipset performance. The number of cores beyond about four threads only seems to matter for thing like video editing, complex Photoshop filters, audio transcoding, certain kinds of encryption and so on- none of those tasks will be done on this machine.

And of course, games and VR need a lot of "silicon horsepower" but again this machine will not be used for that.

Looking at the specification of these Coffee Lake chips, it looks like the i7-8700 is the way to go. It has about the fastest single-core performance and a 65 watt TDP which should work with my power situation. Probably the number of cores is overkill, but between the single-core speed and that big cache, I'm guessing this will be provide the fastest user experience.

I won't likely be able to overclock, the power use goes up beyond the capability of my PSU, so there's no need for anything like water cooling here, and probably even no need for aftermarket air cooling.

SO: what do you folks think about:

ASRock Z370M-ITX/ac
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000
Intel i7-8700 CPU
Samsung 960 EVO m.2 250 GB SSD

Sound good ????


This adds up to about $600 (I already have the SSD, case and Windows 10 on hand)
 
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Well I ordered ASRock Z370M-ITX/ac , G.SKILL TridentZ Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 4000 & Intel i7-8700 CPU

We'll see how it goes. Power is going to be CLOSE, very tight....
 
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Sorta.

TDP is Thermal Design Power, it's a rating of what it'll take roughly to cool that cpu under nominal loads. Actual thermal limits are Peak, roughly 1.5x TDP, meaning to cool an i7 under a heavy load like stress testing or rendering, you'll need a cooler capable of at least 1.5x - 2x TDP. That'll be the @140w budget coolers such as cryorig H7, hyper212, gammax 400, Corsair H-45/55/60 AIO's.

The power consumption is entirely different, but TDP is often used as it's a given number. By comparison, the 65w TDP i5-8400 only uses 50w maxed out, whereas the 95w TDP i7-8700k uses about 85w at stock values, much depending on actual vcore, which varies. With the i7-8700, even though TDP is 65w, power consumption is higher at @70w. Remember, hyperthreading changes the game.

The 4000 ram won't do you any good. CoffeeLake is default 2666MHz, most times needing a small amount at least OC to enable the memory controller to handle the higher frequency. What'll happen is you spend extra for faster ram and the bios won't allow faster than the 2666MHz, not being able to use any OC settings with a locked cpu.

 
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Office, Web browsing, netflix, are all single core operations, so an i3 will be fine.
faster ram won't help, but having enough, i.e. 8gbs should be.

That i7 is basically a huge waste of money, it's not going to make a noticeable difference in speed because you don't do any heavy lifting with that.
 
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Solution
Btw, you aren't limited to that psu. Sfx psus can be made to fit if needs be. There's also more than a few postings where ppl have retrofitted an sfx and combined it with a card like a radeon 7750, but those posts were also in 2013, so sfx were basically low power too, averaging 300w or so, and the 7750 is a low power card. Probably no reason not to mod the case interior slightly, add a decent psu and a card like a gtx1050ti and still have a respectable pc that'll also handle more than MS hearts.
 
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Hmmmm. Interesting. I ordered an i3-8350k, too. Maybe I'll return the i7-8700. Or maybe I'll build a different PC with it. The DDR4-4000, I always buy the fastest RAM without going too too crazy, as this memory will be recycled into other computers later on that will be able to take advantage of the speed.

As far as trying to fit an SFX PSU into this case, yeah, I suppose it's possible, but there'd be quite a bit of metalwork to be done, it's not just drilling a few new holes in the chassis to allow mounting. I haven't seen any photos of anyone having done this, I'll bet it's not pretty.

As this will sometimes be used by one of my employees, there is no way I am going to build it to be capable of running any real games.

By the way Mr. Mason, I enjoyed your performance in North by Northwest....
 
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ah, I see what they did, they have the PSU fan blowing hot air out into the interior of the case, so the power cord from the back of the Antek could be plugged into the aftermarket PSU. Not the ideal solution. Also this means that the output cables from the PSU emerge into a very cramped space on the "wrong" side of the case from the way the case is designed. But I see it is workable, after a fashion.

I don't like the PSU adding it's heat to the case interior, but since I won't have a video card, and the case has a fair amount of vent grille, this shouldn't cause any actual problems.

So that's a possibility, yes.
 
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Well here's the kicker. Psus put out heat in proportion to workload. Best workable heat (and best efficiency) is achieved around a 50% load.

So, if you push @140w, you'll be up around 90% loads, mediocre efficiency and a screaming fan. Dudes 270w, even at 170w load will put out less heat, better efficiency, and a much quieter fan. Also, there's now an open vent on the side of the case, increasing airflow from almost front to rear, facilitated by the psu fan, so even with the added psu heat output, case temps are kept in check.

It's an odd dynamic for sure, but overall I don't see it as being that much of an issue, even with dude running a low profile amd gpu from a generation known to provide high heat outputs.
 
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I have built the box
-i3-8350 CPU at stock speed
-8 GB G Skill DDR4-2666 (2 x 4 GB)
-Samsung 256 GB 950 PRO m.2 SSD
-Garden variety slim DVD RW drive
-ASRock Z370M-ITX/ac mini-ITX motherboard (using on board video)
-CRYORIG C7 cooler
-Windows 10 pro 64

It runs beautifully on the 150 watt PSU in the diminutive Antec ISK 310-150 case. From a user perspective on web browsing and Office applications and 1080p video, it's REALLY fast and snappy. Zip zoom boom. Super-quiet, too.

I am amazed at how much performance this has for how little electrical power is available for it.

Thanks for the advice, folks. I might have overlooked this i3 CPU if not for your input!
 
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