Need suggestions on water cooling

murdoc

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Hello, liquid cooling is becoming more and more convincing for me as I like to upgrade my graphics card in a matter of 6 months. As we all know it, all the aftermarket air cooling solutions are starting to get to a point where the amount of dbA they output is becoming unbarable and so I'm looking into this type of solution.

I'm a noob to the world of watercooling and so I hope you experts can help me out on deciding what are good parts to buy and how I can maximize the money that I've got.

I'm looking for an extremely quiet cooling solution that's good for overclocking.

My components don't get exceedingly hot but do I believe the Gfx card will become the hottest component in the case.

I want to know approximate the budget that I will need to spend. Please do keep in mind that I live in Ontario (Canada) so I will need to get it/order from the stores available to me. I want to avoid customs as much as possible and I can only pay via paypal if I order online.

My Budget is approximately 450 CAD (tax, shipping......included). Please advise me on what parts I should use and how I can maximize this amount. If it needs to go overy by 10-20 bucks I think I'm ok for that. Thanks for your time.

My Components:
CPU: E7200 Intel C2D (775 LGA socket)
VGA: 8800GT nvidia (I'm waiting for the December 2008 offering from nvidia so not to worry about VGA waterblocks for now).
 

murdoc

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hmm... well if I want to over clock my GPU as well wouldn't using a heat sink + heat spreader be risky?

plus my goal is to make my next VGA card as cool and quiet as possible even while overclocked (this means the next GTX 200 or perhaps GTX300 from Nvidia).

Is there a non-water cool solution for this? I don't think Accelero S1 can top a GTX260 even now. Those cards get so hot it's just not really possible to cool without a fan at the moment. Even Asus kept a fan on it.
 

cal8949

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just get acoustic damping mats they take down fan noise alot
 

murdoc

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well the major problem is I need to find a solution to make my PC and silent as possible while it's being overclocked. Placing acoustic mats probably will do the trick for less $$ but may increase the heat. So I need to find the sweet spot where both worlds are balanced as much as possible.
 

phreejak

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First of all, these people who are giving water cooling a bad rap by saying that you won't achieve results too much better than air cooling really are giving you some bad advice. Clearly they don't have much experience with water cooling OR they have none at all (and certainly less knowledge). You could find the best air cooling components and the best that they could do would only compare to the worst water cooling kits. In true form, a carefully put-together water cooling loop would produce results for you that air cooling could never approach.

Now, on to what you came here for....

Just a couple of questions here:

$450 Canadian - what would that be in American $? 350? $400?

Since you intend to o'clock, am I correct in assuming that means both the CPU and GPU?

Do you have any aversions to having rads outside your case?

 

murdoc

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Finally I have someone with a difference response. I want to give you a load down on the case that I have. I bought this case a few years ago so please do bare with me.

- Sunbeam Transformer (I love this to bits and I still do).

Now, given this fact, it didn't have a nice WC design so no holes for the tubes to go through. There's no room for internal WC kits so it must be exterior. I don't mind it being outside but I want a relatively nice looking thing so nothing big, fat and ugly sticking out. If it sticks out a little that's fine.

I've read articles online like I've never before and I'm looking at this kit
Swiftech H20-220 Apex ULTRA+ Complete System Liquid Cooling Kit. It seems to give the biggest bang for the buck and the hardware itself is pretty decent.

Comparing CAD to USD I'd say 450 CAD is approx 420 USD. This is of course only if I need to go that high.

One thing I want to emphsize which I know is difficult is silence. I hope that it will allow me to OC with decent results while keeping it as quiet as possible.

I have my E7200 on Air at 3.4 Ghz right now and so I feel that I'm pretty satisfied with these results. I'm prolly aiming for this to be cooler significantly (from current 55ish degrees celcius on load down to maybe 40 - 45?) If I can get these temps I might even OC it higher to get it as close to 4 ghz as possible without breaking the 60 degree mark.

I want something that lasts and from my knowledge those all in 1 GPU solutions aren't the best since I have to change as cards change as well. Again, it seems like currenlty this Swiftech kit is best given that I have a dedicated GPU waterblock and seperate ram sinks included.

I want your opinion and I wanted to see if there's a better deal for me out there or if I should keep these parts but trade a few for even better performance. Thanks for your time.

PS: I'm having trouble looking up guides for Water Cooling precautions and how to safe guard my computer against leakage.etc If you have any good links please post them here, Thanks.
 

phreejak

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Ok, as far as cooling loop components "outside" of a case let me show you a bit of my setup to give you an idea what I might be suggesting here:

rads.gif


 

nh484000

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hey i just bought a Swifttech h20-220
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108105

as well as a swiftech water block for my GPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108095

This is to cool my Q6600 and 8600GTS. I have a extremely small case (its a cube case) and think im going to be setting the radiator on the back of the case. Im going to be setting it up tonight and ill take pics and stuff if you want to see them. Ill also post temps and other info for you.

right now I have an Intel stock cooler and im overclocking my cpu to 2.9ghz. it is running extremely hot but it does work.
 


I have a very similar Swiftech kit, Here, and it is a very good starter kit.
High quality pump, decent water blocks and decent radiator.
The biggest gripe I have with this kit is it's 7/16" ID tubing.
It is supposed to prevent leaks but it is a PITA to get on the 1/2" barbs.

It takes a little more work but it is well worth your time to mount it outside your case.
Mounted outside, it will keep all the heat away from the rest of your components, keeping them cooler and draw cooler air through the radiator keeping your CPU and GPU cooler. Probably not much of a point using the northbridge cooler unless you are going for a maximum overclock. With all the heat pumped out of the case and a few fans, it should stay cool enough with out the watter block.

When you assemble your WC loop, make sure to have your case devoid of components.
You will have to drill/dremmel some holes for the tubing and possibly mounting of the pump and reservoir.
After the big parts are mounted, toss your motherboard back in so you can measure how much tubing you will need to run.
After the tubing is measured and cut, again remove all components.
You can then assemble and fill your loop.
To test for leaks, it is best to install and jump your PSU.
Keep it like this with just your pump running overnight or a little longer to ensure there are no leaks.

All those slamming water cooling have, most likely, never used it.
A properly set up water loop will keep your system cooler and quieter than any air cooler could hope to.

Best of luck with your first water setup.
If you have any problems with the instilation or setup, just drop a post.
 

phreejak

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nh484000, of course post your pictures. You'll get a kind enough reception here from some good people who will offer their thoughts on whatever you are curious about.

outlw6669 does offer some good advice, especially about jump starting the PSU and running the cooling loop overnight. I've a secondary PSU, a 650 modular, that I have an adapter on that allows me to turn it on without being connected to the MB. I use it, primarily, on my fans (when I am setting them up) and my cooling loop (when I am setting it up). It allows me to run various components without being committed tot he motherboard - like testing my cooling loop for 24hrs as outlw6669 suggested above.
 

grieve

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Below you will find an exact list to what I have; this is just for the processor. I would strongly suggest a second independent loop for VGA cooling.

Water cooling requires deep pockets to do it correctly, I strongly suggest a Thermochill Radiator they cost more but are #1, if you are dumping this much cash into cooling… do it right the first time.

Water cooling WILL do the following:
#1 drop temps below that of any air cooled machine.
#2 allows you to overclock far higher then air. My temps are the same at stock as they are @ 3GHZ (from 2.4) … Yes an air cooled q6600 can get to 3ghz easily, however the temps wont be sub 40 degress.
#3 Costs a lot of money to do it right!
#4 looks sweet.

===========
My Water cooling setup
===========
-Swiftech Opogee GTX Waterblock - 5/9”OD barbs
-Swiftech MCP655 12v Industrial pump
-1*Smartcoils 625blue
-10 foot Masterclear pvc tubing 7/16”ID , 5/9”OD
-3* Scythe S-Flex SFF21F fans (for the Rad)
-Fan Controller - Scythe Kama Meter Multifunction
-Swiftech ½” OD Chrome plated barbs (for rad)
-Copper T connection (for the T line) from local hardware store.
-9 Hoseclamps from local hardware store.
-Feser One Fluid UV Purple NON-CONDUCTIVE Water Replacement (used about 20 OZ. for this system)
-Danger Den Fillport
-Swiftech MCB-120 Radbox
-Swiftech MCR320 Radiator (replacing with a Thermochill 120.3 rad)


 

grieve

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I tested my loop by jumping the PSU and i didnt have the MB in the case... After getting all the water circulated i was satisfied there were no leaks.

** It takes a lot to fill the loop as you have to turn the power on/off to avoid over heating your pump. A resevoir makes this a lot easier.
 

rubix_1011

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Thanks Phreejak for stepping in...it seemed like those who don't use had quite the opinion on watercooling. You can use a large surface area (2x120 or 3x120 radiator) and some mid to low speed fans and do much better than an air cooler. Water has the ability to move more heat because of its thermal capacity; why do you think cars use coolant instead of all being air cooled? Granted, a couple of Porsche's might still be air cooled, but 99% of the rest are water cooled. That being said, there is a reason.

If you don't have the money to do watercooling yourself, don't bag on someone who has the cash and wants to. Yes, there are other alternatives, but if you want to shell out the cash for good water cooling, it will beat air cooling every day. As for leaks, there are reasons some people don't need to do it; they don't care enough to take the time and do a good job. (they have directions and recommendations for a reason).

Outlaw:
It is supposed to prevent leaks but it is a PITA to get on the 1/2" barbs

I agree, they can be difficult with 1/2" tubing, but works very well. I use a can of spray silicone and just wet any barbs I have trouble with. Tubing slides right on and it doesn't hurt the tubing like WD-40 would over time.
 

grieve

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This is an incorrect statement. A good water cooling loop can cool far better then air. Water will drastically improve your OC potential as well as your day to day temps on a 24/7 OC. You may only gain 4 degrees at stock… but once you crank up the heat, water is just superior, vastly superior.

They key is the Radiator… More radiators of higher quality are everything. Thermochill radiators are the way to go, lets remember at the end of the day water cooling is still air cooled via the radiator.

Don’t worry about 7/16 tubing on ½ in barbs, it is ideal to do it this way… and get your self some metal hose-clamps as well, leaks will not happen.
 

murdoc

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I like your setup it looks really nice. I noticed that you wanted to replace the raidator with Thermochill and it looks good because from the thickness I can tell how much heat can get dissipated but wouldn't that thickness make the system look very bulky? How much performance gain would I get if I swapped to Thermochill 120.3?

Also how much did your current setup cost you?

If I replaced your fans with silenX 120mm fans would that perform better?

What about the size of the hose clamps?

Regarding the thermochill 120.3 rad, is it the same as this?

on my national computer store, it says if I buy any Feser product, I will get 20% off the Feser One X-240 (dual fan rad). Would that give me good enough of a performance or would you say that a tri fan rad is a MUST?

My national and local hardware stores did not have D-tek Fuzion CPU Waterblock, nor the GTX waterblocks that you've mentioned. Are there any other good alternatives that I can consider to replace that?

As for the hoseclamps, and copper T connection do you have any pictures on those? By hardware store, do you mean a computer store? Or stores like Home Depot?

Regarding the fill port, I can't really drill holes into my case so are there any work arounds for this?

I know I have a lot of questions, but I must make sure that I have everything clear before I proceed as this is one of my major investments other than my recent computer rig upgrade.
 

murdoc

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I probably wouldn't drill any holes in my case because I don't have the equipment to do so (believe it or not). I most likely will get one of those backplates where it has holes drilled to allow a tube to go through the slots at the back of my case (like a video card having ports sticking out its ports at the back).
 

phreejak

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The "pass-thru" slots are for 3/8ID tubing so you'd need to plan for that accordingly (instead of going with 1/2ID). Now, what that means is that you will probably be going with a single rad so that is going to limit your cooling capabilities somewhat (or your o'clocking capabilities anyway).
 

murdoc

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not really. Take a look at grieve's setup. He used a pass-thru slot as well using a tripple fan rad.
 

cal8949

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ok now i understand that you get better temps and oc on watercooling but you cant go cheap with it. but how is it quit you hook 2 or 3 fans to a radiator you have the pump making noise. then the 2 or 3 case fans you keep. you end up using just as much fans or more. but then you dont have those noisy video card fans but you have the radiators and fans outside of the case

 

rubix_1011

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Silent and performance don't usually end up in the same hand. Most people assume that watercooling is silent, but you still need the fans to push air over the radiators. If you can hear a pump outside your case over a case fan, you have something seriously wrong. Most of your noise factor is like any other fan...it depends on the speed of the fan and how noisy it is by design.

My 9800GTX typically runs what, like 80C at load with the stock cooler? (from what I have read) Mine runs at ~45C at load with a waterblock and that is clocked at 800mhz on the GPU.