[SOLVED] Need suggestions to buy proper ups for my desktop PC

[xcaliber9999]

Hello

I am new here. Please forgive if I posted this in the wrong section. Anyway I don't know how much power my pc use during at peak so I am totally clueless which model ups will be appropriate to solve my current problem. Now the problem is my current ups works fine if I just browse net, watch movies, copy/paste files etc but when I am gaming if there is a power cut my whole pc instantly shutdown and again after 1 second immediately restart back so from the looks my current ups can't cover the power it needs by my pc during gaming and heavy load. So I am looking to buy a new ups which will able to keep my pc on during the first initial power cut shock. Hopefully I make sense for you guys

My pc specs -
mother board - asus z97 deluxe
psu- cooler master g750m
GPU - zotac gtx 980 amp
storage - [2] 1tb HDDs ///// [1] NVMe M.2 SSD 250gb
fans - [1] 360mm fan at front [2] 120mm fan at top and [1] 120mm fan at back
no optical drives
monitor,speakers are not plugged in to ups

My current ups is - Microtek UPS Twin Guard Pro+ 1000VA
specification

Input
-------
Input Voltage Range 140 V ~ 300 V AC
Frequency 50 Hz ± 10%

Output
---------
Output Voltage 230 V ± 10%
Transfer Time Typical 4~10ms
Waveform (Battery Mode) Modified Sine Wave

Battery
---------
Type Sealed Maintenance Free
Charging Time 6~8 Hours recover to 90% capacity
Battery Rating SMF 12V /7AHx2 Nos.

Power Solutions Inverter UPS Battery

Microtek India is largest power product manufacturer offering Inverter UPS for home, Jumbo UPS Battery, Voltage Stabilizer, Wires and Cables, Solar Products, E-Rickshaw charger, Health Products.

www.microtekdirect.com

Well the funny thing is even though I am using a 1000VA ups but still it can't keep my pc on under heavy load.

All I want from the new ups to handle that first initial power cut shock so the pc doesn't shut down immediately. Also I don't need lots of backup time 10-15 mins will be good enough. My pc is on most of the time because of render stuffs so need a good backup ups

Also guys please suggest me ups which will not destroy my wallet
thanks

 

[digitalgriffin]

This is not a stupid question and quite frankly a hard one to answer. Picking the right UPS can be a difficult choice.

How old is your UPS? The batteries could need replacing. They are lead acid and don't last forever. Luckily replacements are cheap.

Also your power supply isn't the best brand. I don't know what the rated hold up time is, but there is a standard that says the power supply has to keep going for 16 msec once power drops out. This time is needed for the UPS to switch over and start supplying power. Those older Cooler Master caps didn't use that great of primary capacitors, so those could also be the source of your problem as that is where the reserve power comes from when line voltage drops.

Since your power supply is a G750M, you're going to need a power supply that can handle at least 750 Watts. 1000VA should be able to handle at least a 500 Watt load. I have a 850 Watt power supply and a 1500VA UPS and it hasn't failed yet.

The amount of runtime you get depends on how many watts you are pulling. If you are pulling 750 Watts, then you will get dramatically less than the rated run time. At full load I can get only a couple minutes of runtime. At < 5% load, I get 90 minutes runtime.

 

[Paperdoc]

Two major points to make here.

1. 1000 VA capacity, surprisingly, is nowhere near 1000 W. In fact, the first website I found that sells your current UPS says its output capacity is 360 W, so you may be quite right that your UPS is too small. In choosing a new one, look for that Watts spec, not the VA spec.

2. There are two quite different types of UPS sold. See here for some info

Line-interactive vs On-line UPS Systems

UPS topology is about more than just price. You need to know the differences between line-interactive and on-line models to understand the trade-offs.

blog.tripplite.com

The one you have is a Line-Interactive type, which is less expensive BUT has a switch-over time that can be a problem. When operating, it does three things. It passes the wall power on to your computer system. It re-charges its battery to be sure it is ready. And it watches the wall power coming to it for failure. IF it detects a failure it switches on its inverter circuits to take power from the battery and send it to the computer. But there is a short time period when the power actually reaching your computer falls off before it returns. And that likely is why, when a power failure occurs, your computer can survive when doing easy work, but fails and re-starts under heavy load. This might be because your UPS is slow to switch over, OR it may simply be that the total load you have on it is large enough that your computer's PSU capacitors will be depleted more rapidly than the standard specified switch-over time for this type of UPS.

The other type is called an On-Line UPS. In operation, all of the input power goes to charging the battery. At the same time it always runs its inverter circuits, drawing their power from that battery and feeding it to your computer. If wall power fails, there is NO interruption of power fed to your computer. But it will monitor that wall power for failure so it can warn you what has happened, and you can shut down or whatever cleanly. MOST of this type of UPS generates a pretty true Sine wave output, rather than a stepped pseudo-Sine wave, and for SOME systems that is important, but not all. This type of UPS is more expensive.

Both types are sold in various size ranges. But by "size" we need to examine two things. One is the output power in Watts (not VA) to ensure it can supply enough for your system. The other is the TIME it can continue to supply that level of power when there is no wall power to keep the battery recharged. From what you describe, you need a unit able to supply over 360 W (not clear how much higher), and you seem to think that 15 min operation is sufficient. I'm guessing you experience short power outages, and not sustained failures of an hour or more that require continued operation.

 

[xcaliber9999]

This is not a stupid question and quite frankly a hard one to answer. Picking the right UPS can be a difficult choice.

How old is your UPS? The batteries could need replacing. They are lead acid and don't last forever. Luckily replacements are cheap.

Also your power supply isn't the best brand. I don't know what the rated hold up time is, but there is a standard that says the power supply has to keep going for 16 msec once power drops out. This time is needed for the UPS to switch over and start supplying power. Those older Cooler Master caps didn't use that great of primary capacitors, so those could also be the source of your problem as that is where the reserve power comes from when line voltage drops.

Since your power supply is a G750M, you're going to need a power supply that can handle at least 750 Watts. 1000VA should be able to handle at least a 500 Watt load. I have a 850 Watt power supply and a 1500VA UPS and it hasn't failed yet.

The amount of runtime you get depends on how many watts you are pulling. If you are pulling 750 Watts, then you will get dramatically less than the rated run time. At full load I can get only a couple minutes of runtime. At < 5% load, I get 90 minutes runtime.

Hi
thanks for replying. Well it should be 2+ years old by now. As for the battery replacement I had a bad experience in the past with their service. My past ups had a battery replacement which only worked for couple of months and one fine day I smell something was burning inside the ups don't know whether it was battery or circuit or wires or everything frying altogether the smell was bad. The money they took to replace the batteries was very close to purchasing a new one so from that point on wards I just don't replace battery anymore I just buy a new one which also comes with a 1 year warranty.

Yeah I know its not the best brand its just one of the popular brands here that's all. So by your explanation not only my ups but my psu can be a culprit as well. That's interesting so what should I do ? change my PSU or buy a better UPS ? You already saw my hardwares so do I need 850watt 1500VA UPS like yours ? You also suggest 750 Watts should I look for 750 watts output ? or input ? sorry I am a noob in this area

 

[xcaliber9999]

Two major points to make here.

1. 1000 VA capacity, surprisingly, is nowhere near 1000 W. In fact, the first website I found that sells your current UPS says its output capacity is 360 W, so you may be quite right that your UPS is too small. In choosing a new one, look for that Watts spec, not the VA spec.

2. There are two quite different types of UPS sold. See here for some info

Line-interactive vs On-line UPS Systems

UPS topology is about more than just price. You need to know the differences between line-interactive and on-line models to understand the trade-offs.

blog.tripplite.com

The one you have is a Line-Interactive type, which is less expensive BUT has a switch-over time that can be a problem. When operating, it does three things. It passes the wall power on to your computer system. It re-charges its battery to be sure it is ready. And it watches the wall power coming to it for failure. IF it detects a failure it switches on its inverter circuits to take power from the battery and send it to the computer. But there is a short time period when the power actually reaching your computer falls off before it returns. And that likely is why, when a power failure occurs, your computer can survive when doing easy work, but fails and re-starts under heavy load. This might be because your UPS is slow to switch over, OR it may simply be that the total load you have on it is large enough that your computer's PSU capacitors will be depleted more rapidly than the standard specified switch-over time for this type of UPS.

The other type is called an On-Line UPS. In operation, all of the input power goes to charging the battery. At the same time it always runs its inverter circuits, drawing their power from that battery and feeding it to your computer. If wall power fails, there is NO interruption of power fed to your computer. But it will monitor that wall power for failure so it can warn you what has happened, and you can shut down or whatever cleanly. MOST of this type of UPS generates a pretty true Sine wave output, rather than a stepped pseudo-Sine wave, and for SOME systems that is important, but not all. This type of UPS is more expensive.

Both types are sold in various size ranges. But by "size" we need to examine two things. One is the output power in Watts (not VA) to ensure it can supply enough for your system. The other is the TIME it can continue to supply that level of power when there is no wall power to keep the battery recharged. From what you describe, you need a unit able to supply over 360 W (not clear how much higher), and you seem to think that 15 min operation is sufficient. I'm guessing you experience short power outages, and not sustained failures of an hour or more that require continued operation.

Well with my limited knowledge I understood that Line-Interactive type has a disadvantages but less expensive and On-Line ones are better but more expensive. Now my question is can't a Line-inter ups with enough watt output solve my problems ? As I said I am on a budget so can't go for the expensive ones. Or I am doomed to buy on-line ups ?

Yeah our apartment have very powerful generators which can go for days in case of power cut but they need atleast 8-10 mins to kick start.So I don't need ups to give me powers for hours my problem is that first initial few mins. So u are saying 360W atleast will that be enough ? or should I go for 400w maybe 500w ? can you kindly give me some models ?

 

[digitalgriffin]

Well with my limited knowledge I understood that Line-Interactive type has a disadvantages but less expensive and On-Line ones are better but more expensive. Now my question is can't a Line-inter ups with enough watt output solve my problems ? As I said I am on a budget so can't go for the expensive ones. Or I am doomed to buy on-line ups ?

Yeah our apartment have very powerful generators which can go for days in case of power cut but they need atleast 8-10 mins to kick start.So I don't need ups to give me powers for hours my problem is that first initial few mins. So u are saying 360W atleast will that be enough ? or should I go for 400w maybe 500w ? can you kindly give me some models ?

Unfortunately without a oscilloscope I cant determine where the failure point is. It could be the ups or the psu.

Always on sources wear out a lot faster. Line interactive are not inferior provided the equipment on the end of the line operates within atx power specs.

 

[Paperdoc]

Yes, line-interactive type can do the job well. I suspect your problem really is that the one you have is just too small. And no, I do not think the PSU in your computer is faulty or weak. The root of it, I suspect, is that you thought that 1000 VA is the same as 1000 W, much more than your PSU can do, so it should be good. But in fact, the model you have is rated by its makers as suited for 360 W, and I bet that's very close to your PSU rating. Add on the extra load of other items (your monitor, maybe a printer) also drawing power from the UPS and the total load on the UPS apparenly is very close to its limit. So yes, I expect a larger-capacity UPS of a similar design will solve your problem.

 

[xcaliber9999]

Ok I read all your suggestions guys. Now I have 2 final questions

1) Does PSU degrade like UPS battery as time goes by ? I am specially talking about the PSU's " Hold Up Time"
my psu cooler master G750M hold up time shows >16ms
so do this function remain same till the day PSU dies or does it get worse every year ?

2) I am looking for a new ups like I said above and while scouting the online store I saw some ups but can't decide which will be best for my system. I definetly don't need an under powered one like which I have now also I don't want an overkill ups for my system since they are much more expensive. I already posted my hardwares above so can u guys please kindly suggest me among these which one should be good for me ?

These 4 models all have have transfer time minimum [5ms] and maximum [12 ms] and my PSU model shows hold up time is less than >16ms so they should be ok right ?

These 4 models I saw which seems interesting to me so please guys kindly take a look and suggest which one should I go for

1) APC 800VA
Max Configurable Power (Watts)
480Watts / 800VA
Transfer Time
5ms typical : 10 ms maximum

https://www.apc.com/shop/in/en/products/APC-BACK-UPS-800VA-230V-INDIA/P-BE800-IND

2) APC Pro900VA -
Output power capacity
540Watts / 900VA
Transfer Time
10ms typical : 12 ms maximum

https://www.apc.com/shop/in/en/products/Back-UPS-Pro-BR-900VA-6-Outlets-AVR-LCD-Interface/P-BR900MI

3)APC Pro 1000VA
Output power capacity
600Watts / 1.0kVA
Transfer Time
8ms typical : 12ms maximum

https://www.apc.com/shop/in/en/prod...UPS-Pro-1000-with-LCD-230V-India/P-BR1000G-IN

4)APC 1100VA
Max Configurable Power (Watts)
660Watts / 1.1kVA
Transfer Time
10ms typical : 12ms maximum

https://www.apc.com/shop/in/en/prod...out-auto-shutdown-software-India/P-BX1100C-IN

I didn't add the 1500VA and above models because they are out of my budget and I feel like they will be overkill for my system (am I right guys ?)

Btw if you have any other ups suggestions please feel free to mention

 

[Paperdoc]

1. Although I believe it is possible for a PSU's Hold-up Time to be reduced as their components age, I do not have any proof to cite and I have NOT seen common complaints about that. I think it MUCH more likely in your case that the capacity of the UPS is the real problem, so don't worry about replacing the PSU.

2. Yes, all those UPS models certainly have the specs to keep your system going. But the BIG item to watch for is the TIME they can keep running. Each has, in the first line of specs, a spec for the time it will run for a specified load. There is a box you can type in your expected load and it will tell you the run time. Less load = more run time. Two examples:

The smallest of these, the 800 VA model, is rated for 480 W. At its max load of 480 W it can keep going for only 1 minute. If the load is only 400 W, it can do 2 min. Probably not good enough for you.

The largest, the 1100 VA model, is rated for 660 W. At its max load of 660 W it can keep going for 3 minutes. If the load is only 400 W, it can do 10 min. Might be OK if your power outages are typically 10 to 15 minutes. At least, IF you are present, in 10 min you could shut down cleanly.

Of course, if your load is LESS than 400 W, the time is longer. All we really know now is that a unit rated for 360 W can NOT always keep your system running for even a short time when power fails.

If you extrapolate the trend above, you can understand why digitalgriffin above has never had a failure with a UPS rated for 1500 VA. His operating time is surely well over 10 min.