Need to build 20 systems.

BillH2

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The company I work for needs 20 desktop systems. We have a bid from Dell for Optliplex 760's with the following specs:
CPU: Core 2 Duo E7500
Memory: 2G DDR 800
Hard Drive: 80G SATA
Optical Drive: 16X DVD-RW
Windows 7 Pro
Standard Kbrd and Mouse.
we can get these systems for $645.00 each plus shipping.
No monitors,

These will be systems used for secretarial, word processing and internet research. Management here is reluctant to stray away from Dell, but if I can save around 150 per system, they are willing to listen. They are pretty well locked in to Intel for processors.

Suggestions?
 
Solution
The real sinker here is that for business use you will have to buy the retail version of Windows (if you want to do things the legal way). This tacks on at least an extra $100 per machine; however, if you already have the OS software separately, then this is not an issue.

Compare:
20 copies of Windows 7 Professional (OEM License) @ $134.99/ea <-- Can only be sold with a new machine to an "End User"
20 copies of Windows 7 Professional (Retail) @ $265.99/ea
(this includes volume savings)

Another option which MAY work (you'll have to check the fine print): it might be possible to just get an OEM System Builder License from Microsoft, start your own computer making business (wouldn't be too hard to do), and then sell the...

KidHorn

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I think Dell is charging too much. The specs on that computer make it look like something they would have sold 2 or 3 years ago (with Vista). I would see if you can negotiate the price down or get something better.

As a matter of fact 2G of ram and a 80 GB hard drive with windows 7 may be a bad idea. I suggest getting 4 GB and at least a 500 GB hard drive. You should be able to get that for $645 plus shipping.

As far as getting something else....
You could build a better computer for $500, but It will be a pain to put them all together and get working. Unless you're paid at least a $50 assembly fee per computer, it's not worth the headache. Plus, Dell probably gets a windows 7 license for $50. You would have to pay a lot more.
 

nofun

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The real sinker here is that for business use you will have to buy the retail version of Windows (if you want to do things the legal way). This tacks on at least an extra $100 per machine; however, if you already have the OS software separately, then this is not an issue.

Compare:
20 copies of Windows 7 Professional (OEM License) @ $134.99/ea <-- Can only be sold with a new machine to an "End User"
20 copies of Windows 7 Professional (Retail) @ $265.99/ea
(this includes volume savings)

Another option which MAY work (you'll have to check the fine print): it might be possible to just get an OEM System Builder License from Microsoft, start your own computer making business (wouldn't be too hard to do), and then sell the computers to your company. See this website for more details from Microsoft (http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?PageID=552816). This arrangement should be legal (you are a sole proprietor selling goods to another corporation, who qualifies as the end user), and it also has the advantage of letting you buy Office at a heavily discounted price (so long as you bundle it with a newly created machine). However, this opens up a whole can of worms with the IRS too (as you now own your own business, and they can tax your "income"). It might also be possible to register your business to purchase Direct OEM licenses from Microsoft (which would circumvent all the rest of the hullabaloo). At any rate, check with your company's legal department and read through the fine print with Microsoft if you decide to attempt this.



Still, let's see what we can do even if we're handicapped by the retail version of Windows 7:


Here's the same machine as Dell quoted:
Mobo: MSI G31TM-P21 $44.99
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 Wolfdale 2.93GHz $119.99
RAM: Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 2GB DDR2 800 $47.99
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD800JD 80GB $35.99
Optical Drive: SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R $30.99
Case & PSU: Rosewill RS-M136-BK $29.99
Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech 967973-0403 $16.99
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - Retail $265.99 @ Volume Prices
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Total: $592.92 ($470.92 with OEM Windows 7)


You could also get a much better machine for just a little bit more:
Mobo: MSI G31TM-P21 $44.99
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz $189.99
RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 $89.99
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Blue WD3200AAJS 320GB $47.99
Optical Drive: SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R $30.99
Case & PSU: Rosewill RS-M136-BK $29.99
Keyboard & Mouse: Logitech 967973-0403 $16.99
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional - Retail $265.99 @ Volume Prices
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grand Total: $716.92 ($594.92 with OEM Windows 7)



So, even with the Windows 7 handicap, we're still under Dell by decent margin (~$50 per machine). If you can reuse old cases, optical drives, and keyboards & mice, that shaves off an additional $77 per machine! Keep in mind too that Dell will charge you tax, NewEgg won't (except for state taxes); thus, you will save an additional $45 per machine (assuming 7% sales tax). If you can reuse to old components (cases & optical drives) and if you count sales tax, you will certainly be under by at least $150/machine. If you can work out a way to legally get the OEM license (or if you just don't care) you can save a heck of a lot more.
 
Solution

sonic-boom

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As said above the OEM Win 7 is the problem. Now Microsoft does not go around suing people who build systems with OEM to sell them but its still in the grey area of legal. To beat Dell's price(which is horribly high BTW) by $150 and get a better machine at the same time you have to use the OEM OS. This one i priced out is $150 dollars cheaper and it has 6.25 times the HDD space, and double the ram. So yes, you could get computers for $150 cheaper using the Retail version of Win 7 but they would be the same junk that Dell is selling you with $50 in tax.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147143
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109156
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128357
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115056
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.282129
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181&cm_re=spinpoint_f3-_-22-152-181-_-Product

Total $495 + shipping, no tax
For $50 more... 2.66ghz quad workstations.
 

nofun

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One other thing that I should have just seen from the very beginning...

You could just buy from another company through NewEgg. No tax (except state tax), all you pay is shipping! Plus, you benefit from being able to legally get the Windows 7 OEM (which as we've seen, saves a ton of money), and you get the benefit of being able to call tech support should you need it.

Here's one that jumped out at me:
Acer Aspire AX1800-U9002 $499.99 + Shipping
Core 2 Quad Q8300 (Better Processor)
4 GB RAM (Twice as much RAM)
750 GB Hard Drive (A lot more storage!)
Keyboard and Mouse Included

The only snag here is that it comes with Windows 7 Home Premium (dangit we run into Microsoft every which way we turn!) I'm not sure if you can use this in the office or not. Otherwise, a great deal!



Here's the NewEgg link if you'd like to browse:
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=10&name=Desktop-PCs
 

BillH2

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The Hard drive is anemic as far as size goes, but these systems will have Windows 7, Office, (03 or 7) and a few other office programs that don't take up 30G on a present Dell system with XP pro. As far as the price of the Dell's go, I have been using them since 1998, (around 80 workstations, 40 laptops and 8 servers). The price listed reflects a hefty discount. The company I work for is perfectly fine with biting the bullett and purchasing the Dells. Since I started out in the business in 1990 working as a tech in a business that specialized in building clones (I have LOTS of horror stories concerning the early days of clone building) I felt I had to check on the cost of assembling systems rather than purchasing them and I see that I can save the company about $165.00 on each system or $3300.00 on 20.

Re-using the old cases could happen, but the old optical drives are simply CD-Roms.

This link to the operating system,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116756

is the OEM version, priced at $140.00. I haven't tried to purchase one of these yet but I didn't see any restrictions.
 

TheDraac

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OEM/system builder versions Do Not include support from Microsoft should you need OS specific problem solving. The OEM is responsible for that support. In other words, an OEM (whether a large system builder like Dell or the small computer shop down the street) is responsible for the tech support calls.

A retail copy allows you to call Microsoft for help. Tho I must say, some people still don't get the "help" they need from them either.

edit: As for any restrictions, your "supposed" to only be able to buy the OEM version with the purchase of a new hard drive or motherboard. Although I don't see that enforced to much.
 

nofun

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If you don't mind sacrificing a little processor power (which as MRFS points you, you really don't need), then you could also try this machine:
Acer Veriton VX270-ED5300C $369.99
This comes with Vista Business, so you're Microsoft Approved for business use.

At a price this low, you just might be able to open her up and see what kind of mobo you have, then drop in a better processor. An E7500 goes for $119.99, so that's roughly $490 with the E7500. (this is assuming it's possible of course). You're stuck with Vista, not Windows 7, but MEH, most of the computers in our office are still on Windows 2000 or XP, and it works just fine. (You don't NEED 7)
 

nofun

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If you build the machine yourself, it's technically illegal to use the OEM version, you have to buy retail. You can only use the OEM version if you use a Microsoft OEM System Builder License and sell the machine to another party, and that party qualifies then as the "End User." You cannot build a machine, and then sell it to yourself. Furthermore, the OEM version is tied solely to that machine, it cannot be transferred to another machine even if you dispose of the old machine first. Finally, if you swap out the motherboard on the original machine (upgrade it) the OEM license is voided, and you will have to purchase another one. You may upgrade other components and use the same OEM license (but not the motherboard).
 

BillH2

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The present systems are Dell GX170 and GX260's, all around five years old. The tags on the power supplies list them as 170W output so I don't think they are usable. They are primarily Secretary systems.

I am familiar with OEM licensing. I started here five years ago. Shortly after taking on the job, I noticed that I couldn't find any software licenses. That was because they had very few. (When I asked the guy I replaced about licenses, he said "Well, you know, you have to fudge a little.") I did an audit, the first thing I presented to management was the fact that they were going to have to spend a lot of money just to become legal in the licensing department. Since their policy was to never violate license agreements, they didn't hesitate to write the check and we were legal in short order.

The issue with getting help is really a non-issue as Microsoft's help is a joke at best, and not a funny joke at that! So it looks like, to stay legal, I would have to start a business and sell the systems to my company. That would not be a problem.
 

xrodney

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To bad they want only intel CPU, with AMD you can get for about 500-550 bucks nice office system using only brand components and including w7 professional. (and without that piece of garbage intel calls graphic card and noisy cooler bringing you headache for just hearing it for too long every day)

I am no AMD fanboy, intel have best highend CPUs and i am using one, but there is no way they can beat amd in price/value for office
 
Simple, 80+ certified PSU multi core office rig DDR3
3xxN09.jpg
 

nofun

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Yeah that PSU is a little on the light side. Still it may be possible to drop in a new PSU and save a few bucks: Rosewill RV300 300W = $15.99

And yeah, "You have to fudge things a little," is an OK attitude for home use, but it will not work for business. Kudos on keeping your company in good shape!




Exactly. If you're even a mediocre IT specialist (and it sounds like you're way better than that), then there really should be no reason for you to ever have to call Microsoft. If you do run into a problem you can't explain, the internet is wonderful FREE resource. I'm not sure what's entailed in going this route (if you have to register with Microsoft, if there are fees involved, etc, etc, ad nauseam), once again check with your legal department and read through everything carefully. However, if you decide to do it also check out the Office OEM licensing: http://oem.microsoft.com/script/contentpage.aspx?pageid=561811.

This way, you can also bundle new versions of Office with new machines for a fraction of the cost:
Office Standard (Word, Excel, PPT, Outlook) - Retail = $339.99
Microsoft S55-02515 Office Basic 2007 V2 (no media, Lic only) - OEM = $157.99
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$182 saved per machine, or $3,640 for all 20

Nice if you want to upgrade to Office 2007 at the same time.
 

daggs

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BillH2

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All this talk about licenses reminded me of something; Two years ago, another company merged with us. They had purchased 31 Office XP licenses, (Combination of Office Standard and Pro) and 13 copies of Windows XP Pro, all on the open licensing program. According to the Microsoft site, any version of Office XP except the student version is eligible for the upgrade. I think a substantial part of my upgrade expense has been solved.
Thanks!
 

daggs

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you cannot upgrade from xp t 7, check this site: https://windows7upgradeoption.com/ProgramInformation.aspx