Question Need to upgrade my Music WS and this is what I got... I need expertise...

cemster

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Hello,

My faithfull and hardworking workstation has stopped working as my Asus P9x79 WS has stopped working. I was hoping to just replace the Mobo, but then I faced the music. No such a thing as a new P9x79 WS board... Some stuff in China. Not even a used one to be found.

My WS is aimed for Music Production...

So, I have to replace the previous CPU, all my RAMs (64GB) 1200 and the MOBO...

I decided on the i9-11900K. Yes! Instead of 9900K Despite as the most music enthusiast did try to convince me otherwise...

For the Mobo, I prefered the Asus Pro WS W480 ACE... I want no Game Mobo and also this is the WS line I enjoyed for so many years, I was happy there was a (1) choice in Ausu line...

For the Ram I ended up liking the Corsair Vengeance RGB PRO 128GB (4x32GB) DDR4 3600

I was thinking about Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 128GB DDR4 3600 but they only come in Quad form. My previous built was a Quad Ram system, but I figure with the kind of speed I'm getting, I won't be missing that extra bandwidth...

So I already have a decent Power Supply: Corsair AX1200i Digital ATX — 1200 Watt 80 PLUS PLATINUM (more than enough)

I already a GPU card: Asus Evo GTX 1660 Ti (have more than I need)

I have a huge monster of a case: Cosmos II.

So I will have to get a good, solid Cooler. The noize is not an issue for me. As I have the WS in next room...

And now, I suppose all I need is your advice and some amount of luck...

cheers
 
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I think you meant i9-11900K not i9-19900K.
The Asus Pro WS W480 ACE should work, but I do not think it best unless there is a particular feature that you are looking for.
It is designed for Xeon processors, but can run 11900k with a bios update.
It is also does not have pcie 4.0 capability.

Here is a chart as to what the different chipsets can do:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_1200

I9-11900K can be a very strong processor but it needs a good motherboard with good vrm cooling to let it reach it's potential.
If you favor asus, look for a good Z590 based motherboard like this:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119370
Do not get put off by the use of "gaming" in the description in the name, that is just marketing fluff.
Yes, these motherboards include all sorts of RGB bling, but you can turn that off.
Not for me.
11900K is dual channel only, but as a practical matter if you want 128gb, I only see 4 x 32gb kits for sale.
I like the K processors, but since you have a graphics card, a i9-11900kf will be exactly the same sans integrated graphics and will probably be a fair amount cheaper.

To get max turbo performance, you need a decent cooler.
What do you now use? Can it be reused/
I like the Noctua NH-D15s coolers if you are going for air and not liquid cooling.
 
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cemster

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UPDATE

Incidentally on Intel's 11900K compatibility list Asusu Pro WS W480 Ace is not included...

However on Ausu W480's compatibility list does cover 11900K...
 
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cemster

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@ Titan
Yes! Dumbified I feel. It is i9-11900K

The reason I wanted to go with a 'WS' is because they are more reliable and robust in general.
Plus they don't have the Wifi or Bluetooth and what not. Which I don't need or want...
But I see what you're sayhing about The Z590. I've missed that as an option... Seems like a better chipset solution...

Incidentally I bough a Noctua NH-D15 almost 12 years ago and never used it because the paste I had to use was not suitable for my previous CPU...

I was also wondering if I could get i9-11900KF instead... Intel claims the oınly difference between them is the Graphic capability. But all the benchmarks says otherwise...

That bit is puzzling me...
 
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What benchmarks tell you and difference between the K and KF?
If you used "user benchmark" , that is bogus and junk science.
Here is one:
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i9_11900k-1854-vs-intel_core_i9_11900kf-1927
Passmark shows differences, but the general comparison is about the same.
Today, the number of samples submitted for testing of the kf is only 9.

Any differences are rounding errors, or not true apples to apples.
I like the K option if it does not cost too much extra.
But for the 11900k/kf the price difference seems to be substantial.
It is nice to have integrated graphics to test with or as a backup if a discrete graphics card should fail.

NH-D15 is as good as it gets.
The included noctua paste is very good. 12 years might be a bit old though.
The main issue might be clearing ram with tall heat spreaders.
Noctua has very detailed compatibility charts for most motherboards.
The NH-D15s is a high compatibility version that cools similarly.
 
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By the K option I mean vs. the KF without the integrated graphics.
I would pay $20 more to get the K, but a $100 difference for integrated graphics is not worth it for me.
I have a 11900KF coming. If I have a graphics card failure, I will take one out of a lesser backup pc.
The number of sata ports possible on W480 is 8 vs. Z590 which is 6.
But, if you need more than 6 on a Z590 motherboard, you can always add in a pcie expansion card for more.
Here is an example:
https://www.newegg.com/p/17Z-00PS-00001?Item=9SIAHW79WN6882&Description=sata expansion card&cm_re=sata_expansion card--9SIAHW79WN6882--Product&cm_sp=SP--460694--0--3--9SIAHW79WN6882--sata expansion card--card|expanse|sata-_-12

If your workload is I/O intensive and you would benefit from m.2 pcie 4.0 speeds,
The Z590 motherboards will include one.
Samsung 980 PRO 2tb is as good as it gets.
You will also get usually two more m.2 3.0 pcie ports.
If you need more higher speed drives, x4 add in cards are available.
 
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cemster

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I can't seem to locate a "KF" cpu in Amazon or anywhere else in that matter. But, Amazon is the only option I have anyway...
m.2 pcie 4.0 sounds great but like I said, that can be a future upgrade for me...

A pcie expansion card is what I was planning... Or utilizing Thunderbolt also not right away for obvious reasons...
I had a card which I purchased it then I discovered that it didn't support anyhthing over 6GB...

Also, I am afraid of cheap cards... But thank you for the link you sent, that one seems decent. (What ever that means)

I do have to get a fresh batch of paste for the Noctrun for sure :)

Mean time , what do you think of this: Rivo 4 Port SATA III PCIe 3.0 X1 Controller Card, PCI Express to SATA 3.0 6G, Marvell 88SE9215, Black ?
 
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cemster

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" ...if you dont oc your cpu it makes you look like a real idiot for choosing an 11900k cause to get the high single core speeds you need to oc it..."

This is what another dude told me. I am not for OC'ing. He insist on AMD. Which is not suggested in Pro Audio community... But I've heard all the arguments about i9-9900K kicking 11900K's ass...
It is much cheaper so I gathered that's part of the popularity...

But this "to get the high single core speeds you need to oc it" assertion bothered me...
 
Overclocking a processor is no longer a way to get something for nothing.
Modern processors are binned, and the better chips are used in the more expensive versions.
There is minimal headroom for overclocking.
The big attraction for me in the 11th gen intel and ryzen 5000 processors is the increase in performance per clock. Supposedly 19%
Modern turbo mechanism's increase the performance of a few cores if the thermal and power conditions allow.
That is 5.3 for the 11900K/KS.
Ryzen 5000 is similar.
If you want a binned processor, look at what is offered by silicon lottery.
https://siliconlottery.com/collections/all
You can pay a price premium for a binned processor.
I have bought from them before; they are legit.
You might also check out the products that they use to test with:
https://siliconlottery.com/pages/intel-rocket-lake
They use ASUS MAXIMUS XIII APEX/HERO/EXTREME motherboards; I would pick one of them.
I might note that the 11900KF is due may 7.


There are some types of workloads that will benefit from all core overclocking.
They are the ones that can use all threads 100%.
Very few apps qualify. For those apps, more threads is better, regardless of the overclocking potential.

Still, there is a value in a high single thread capability.
Any multitasking app needs to have a master controller thread.
As the number of processing threads increases, the importance of the master thread increases.
Here is a link to "Amdahl's Law" for a more technical reason:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

As to the rivo card, it appears to be the exact same card as the one I linked to on newegg, except newegg is half the cost.
You can even see rivo printed on the card for each.
Newegg has a handful of positive reviews so I would think the card is OK.
 
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cemster

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Well, I'm not into OC except what BIOS might offer...

As I thought, the 11900KF is sold out in that link you gave me... There is so much negativity around the 11900K but I believe (hope) it is still the best choice in Intel palet... If I could I would wanna go with 5950X.
I would be a little hesitant but it is too expensive of an endeavor for me right now... Or if I had the luctury to wait and fork out for the Z690 chipset furbished system, I also would...

Most of the information related to music production and computers is really derived from 2019. The experience for i9 has not been accumulated. And when there is a big price gap between the existing technolgy and up and coming one, people tend to hate the new stuff and find all the flows with the system that they don't have! I am sure they are right from their persfective and that's their experience but things change... A lot! Quickly too...

"So, I have to stick with the cpu which is the most reliable yet facing the future..." What a BS of a statement that sounds...

And I am not sure of anything really...

I am not an Amazon groupie, it's just a metter of avaiabilyt for me. I only have an access to Amazon in the US...

'Heterogeneous computing' is a bit higher than my paidgrade...
.... and I have to confess, I hate learning all this new stuff... It is new because I did'nt have to fallow the computing world as I did a dozen years ago to build my dead (just the mobo) rig. I already have a tough and countinious learning curve in my own field anyway... I don't wanna have to learn anyhting new anymore,
I just wanna do my thing you know... But alas, I have to learn bunch'a sht again so that I can make intelligent decisions and then forget them... (Well, they will be redundent sooner than I can imagine anyway)

For all that, I sure need help, so thank you for providing such insight, it is 'very' appreciated...
 
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I recently changed from a i7-11700K to a i9-11900KF.
Mainly because the 11700K was interim and will be in a pc for my son.
Running cpu-Z bench and stress tests with default settings, the results were close on single thread performance.
On all cores, the 11900kf got about two multipliers higher.
Using a NH-D15s cooler, temperatures were similar, peak at about 65c.
Really, nothing at all to worry about if you have a good cooling case.
I have no indication that power consumption is anything to worry about.
If you go crazy on overclocking, then perhaps; I have not tried that.
Overclocking would be of academic interest, but this thing is so crazy fast, why bother.
 
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My new obstacle is motherboard related... for 11900k, Google + @geofelt suggested ASUS TUF Gaming Z590-Plus and ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO... I also would like to get a Corsair 4x32 3600 set
Unfortunately, the RAM support page doesn't support any Corsair 128GB 3600 set. If I want that speed then I have to get Team brand rams. And not even the part numbers they gave matches the specifications I request!?!
TF10D4128G3600HC18JQC01 & TDZAD4128G3600HC18JQC01...

So I am thinking to sack ASUS!

I want the best possible MOBO. My previous built LGA 2011 had the best possible mobo... A workstation
mobo ASUS P9x79 WS... I... We have been very happy together throughout the years, very happy more than a decade...

I am not a gamer. I am not against games it's just that I won't be playing any games on this system. I won't even have internet in my OS! I don't even need Wifi... But I need all the present technology supported. I need a workstation grade card.

So any input towards helping me to narrow down my research are welcomed with open arms :)
An option is drop down 3600 to 3200.... But frankly I rather would wanna go up... Who wouldn't...
 
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g.skil is a reliable and available ram maker.
Go to their ram selection app:
,
Enter your motherboard brand, chipset and model and you will get a list of supported 128gb 3600 speed kits.
Here is one:
https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/184/1601285413/F4-3600C16Q-128GVK-Qvl
Note that this kit has cas16 latency which will be more expensive than the cas 18 variety.
At equal speeds, lower cas is better.

3600 speed seems to be the max at 128gb capacity
 
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Great, thank you...

That one is not more expensive than Corsair Dominator by the way. Was that your choice? There are too many choices... I am not too familiar with that latency stuff...

Also, what would your choice of mobo be, besides Asus?

HUH! And that one is out of stock... Of course...
 
Great, thank you...

That one is not more expensive than Corsair Dominator by the way. Was that your choice? There are too many choices... I am not too familiar with that latency stuff...

Also, what would your choice of mobo be, besides Asus?

HUH! And that one is out of stock... Of course...
Over the years, I have bought motherboards from all the major makers.
They are all good and getting better.
The major component, namely the Z590 chipset is sourced from the same place, namely Intel.
At the time I bought, there were limited models available, and my willingness to pay big bucks was limited also.
I bought the Asrock Z590 extreme:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813157982?Item=N82E16813157982
To date it has served me well.
Possibly it will not overclock to the limits of motherboards costing twice as much.
But, it seems that default auto boost operations are doing the job.
I looked for a motherboard with robust vrm cooling and two 8 pin power connectors.
Asrock was originally a low budget spin off from ASUS, but they turned themselves into a quality motherboard maker.
Today, there are many good boards available.
My go to shopping site is newegg.
Filter on Z590 chipset, and in stock.
I prefer shipped by newegg to avoid delays and overpricing done by some of their affiliates.
They do have the asus maximus XIII hero:
https://www.newegg.com/asus-rog-maximus-xiii-hero/p/N82E16813119366?Item=N82E16813119366&quicklink=true
They also have APEX and EXTREME at what seems to me to be very high prices.
 
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"HUH! And that one is out of stock... Of course..."

I meant the https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/184/1601285413/F4-3600C16Q-128GVK-Qvl

"Was that your choice? There are too many choices... I am not too familiar with that latency stuff..."
I mean Ram vise...

Seems like I am in between GIGABYTE Z590 VISION D LGA and ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero ...

Meantime I found out that I can use my Noctua (SP2011) with a converter bracket, but I was told that if I exceed Intel's minimal core values in any way that might not be enough...

On GSkils' RAM Configurator, no 128GB Ram over 2666MHz comes out for both of the cards
I mentioned if you select "Dual Channel Kit". If you select "Dual/Quad Channel Kit" then some options appear...
With Asus, I believe there is a couple of 3200MHz Corsair in 4x32 config. but no GSkils... I haven't checked the GIGABYTE...

Man! I am too old for this...
---
So I made this comparison chart over the NewEgg hoping to figure out a bit more...

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare?CompareItemList=13-145-296,9SIARA8E5A2925,13-119-417,9SIAN0MDXP3317,9SIAKACDRU8259
 
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"HUH! And that one is out of stock... Of course..."

I meant the https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/184/1601285413/F4-3600C16Q-128GVK-Qvl

"Was that your choice? There are too many choices... I am not too familiar with that latency stuff..."
I mean Ram vise...

Looks as good as it gets to me.

Seems like I am in between GIGABYTE Z590 VISION D LGA and ASUS ROG Maximus XIII Hero ...

Do not overthink this. Using newegg, you can compare the specs of a number of motherboards.
They are essentially all the same. The details do not exactly line up and I see no important differences.
Picking between the two, I might pick the HERO.
a) You are familiar with ASUS and the way their bios is set up.
b) That is one of the motherboards silicon lottery uses to bin processors.
c) It may mean nothing, but I like seeing two 8 pin connectors vs. 8+4.

"Meantime I found out that I can use my Noctua (SP2011) with a converter bracket, but I was told that if I exceed Intel's minimal core values in any way that might not be enough..."
What does this mean?

Noctua will send out a mounting kit for your NH-D15 for free.
Here is their compatibility list for the HERO motherboard; you are ok there.
https://ncc.noctua.at/motherboards/model/ASUS-ROG-Maximus XIII Hero-4637
The problem will be populating all 4 ram slots.
The ripjaws V ram is 42mm tall. It has no problem in the first two slots, but some sort of accommodation needs to be made for ram in the last two slots.
https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15/specification

The front fan can be raised 10mm to clear.
That is ok , your case has sufficient room(190mm)
There are other alternatives.
a) run with one fan.
b) use a 120mm fan instead
c) relocate the fan to the rear.
d) Use a nh-D15s which is designed for single fan operation.
e) Use different ram like corsair LPX at 33.5mm tall.



I just found out that there is no 128GB Ram over 2666MHz for both of the cards I mentioned...
With Asus, I believe there is a couple of 3200MHz Corsair... Man! I am too old for this...
If you need more than 128gb of ram, you are looking at server motherboards which will have a lot of restrictions.
Supported ram speeds quoted for a motherboard are at two levels. One is the maximum speed at which the motherboard can boot into the bios.
Once in the bios, there will be
a maximum(OC) speed at which the motherboard can support via overclocking.
There will be limits in part due to the chipset, processor, and motherboard.

Ultimately do not obsess about ram speeds.
The quantity counts first.
Buy however much you need.
Here is an older study about DDR4 ram speed scaling.
In the end, you are looking at 1% differences in actual app performance.
 
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cemster

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This, what I was told:
"The NH-D14 is OK so long as you stay within Intel's power limits. If you plan to use MCE, full load on all cores, that cooler will not suffice."

I wasn't clear about the ram issue. I don't want more than 128GB, but I am a little obsessed with the speed.
And you are right. The amount much more important than speed for music production...

I've just realized that your Noktua is a different model after all...
Yours is Noctua NH-D15s while mine is just Noctua NH-D15... Damm... Do I have to get a serious cooler now?
 
NH-D14 is not as strong a cooler as your NH-D15.
NH-D15s cools about as well as your NH-D15;
It is merely a higher compatibility version which you do not need.
All you need is a mounting kit for your NH-D15.
Noctua will send you one gratis.
Contact their customer support.
Were you to buy a NH-D15 today, such a kit for lga1200 would be included.
 
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I'm such an idiot! Mine is NH 14, not 15...

UPDATE

So, how about another nuisance. I went to corsair.com and checked the compatibility list there for ROG MAXIMUS XIII HERO... There is no Ramset for 128GB for it !?! What the hell?

I opened a ticket since I am a customer. Not that anything assuring will come out of it...

Have to buy everything in two days. That' my window! And I'm feeling very gloomy...

@ Asus QVL, there is only one 3200GHz 4x32 128GB Ramset and that is G.SKILL F4-3200C16Q-128GTZN
However, on the G.Skill QVL list for this particular Asus card, that particular Ram set doesn't come up!?
The Asus QVL shows few Corsairs but when you search them in google you see that they are not in the right config...

Besides Corsair QVL doesn't have anything for Asus Maximus 8 hero card in 3200GHz 4x32 128GB either...

So, I am very pessimistic at the moment...

seems like these what I can get according to Asus! As far as Corsair goes... We don't know... I'm waiting for a response...

LAST UPDATE :)

VENGEANCE LPX 128GB CMK128GX4M4D3600C18 (Ver3.44)
4x32GB 3600MHz Micron 18-22-22-42 1.35V Socket 1,2

VENGEANCE® LPX 128GB CMK128GX4M4E3200C16 (Ver3.41)
​
(4 x 32GB) DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz C16 Memory Kit - Black
4x32GB 3200MHz Micron 16-20-20-38 1.35V Socket 1,2,4

VENGEANCE® RGB PRO 128GB CMW128GX4M4E3200C16 (Ver3.44)
4x 32GB 3200MHz Micron 16-20-20-38 1.35V Socket 1,2,4

I don't have a clue which one... Also, those 'Ver. numbers' making me uncomfortable... I can't utilize those unless I buy them directly from Corsair...
 
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@Zerk2012 I don't get it? That's your input?: "2 threads." Really ??? = !

You have a nice rig tough... Is that a game rig? But that doesn't work for me... Unfortunately...
 
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