Needs Upgrade recommendations on PC

[herohk0425]

Been suffering from PC blue screens/crashing these days.
Probably motherboard/ram/cpu problems because I can't even enter BIOS sometimes unless I reset CMOS every time.
Makes me want to upgrade my very old computer.
I want to change CPU+MOTHERBOARD+RAM

Here is my pc:
AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H v2
Corsair XMS3 CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 (2Gx2)
Samsung M378B5273CH0-CH9 (4G)
HCG 520w 80 plus
MSI Armor GTX 1070

But I have some concerns about upgrading so I need some advice.
Let's talk about them.
1. I am a youtuber. I now have only 8GB RAM which is not quite enough. Sometimes it not even enough for playing a single game. So I think I'll go 32GB RAM since I may need to edit/render the videos through large-ram consuming programs and record gameplays at the same time.

2. As you can see, my PC is older than your grandfather. I am that kind of "too lazy to change components until it's broken/can't meet my requirements" people. So I want my PC's life as long as possible.

3. Also, I want to lower the cost as much as possible. I only started my business a few ago. The money I earn is only enough to upgrade my PC. See it as a kind of...investment.

Based on these concerns, I have two questions.

1. go i5 or i7? I don't know i5 is enough or not. I have thought about i7...but again, I want to save my money. Also, should I go skylake or kabylake? Their price do not make a big difference, although skylake a bit cheaper.

2. OC or not? OC means extra cost on cpu+RAM+motherboard, although it may provide a long life existence of PC. But it may also does the opposite side. I am OCing my 1055t CPU to reduce the bottleneck of holding back my GTX 1070. Been okay but it occurs problem like I mentioned above. Now I reset everything to default so I can type this. I don't know when it will crash again.
I don't know if OC is worth it or not.

Thank you for reading this and if you have specific model type of CPU+MB+RAM to recommend, please do let me know whether if it for OC or not.

 

[LucoTF]

1. go i5 or i7? I don't know i5 is enough or not. I have thought about i7...but again, I want to save my money. Also, should I go skylake or kabylake? Their price do not make a big difference, although skylake a bit cheaper.

Based on your usage I'd suggest Ryzen over intel. would be about $450 for CPU+MOBO+ 16GB RAM

 

[LucoTF]

32gb ram option:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($217.55 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($219.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $532.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 05:47 EDT-0400

As you are changing motherboard you may need a new windows license too. What OS are you using and how was it acquired?

 

[herohk0425]

32gb ram option:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2GHz 6-Core Processor ($217.55 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($219.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $532.53
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 05:47 EDT-0400

As you are changing motherboard you may need a new windows license too. What OS are you using and how was it acquired?

Thank you for your reply. But why pick AMD over intel? Is there any superiority of AMD compared to intel(REALLY?)? The price is even near a i5 7600/6600 or even 7600k

 

[LucoTF]

For rendering the ryzen 5 is on a par with the i7 7700k, and far ahead of an i5. Check the reviews

 

[LucoTF]

If going intel I'd suggest an i7 minimum, just based on your usage:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($294.89 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $564.77
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 06:51 EDT-0400

 

[herohk0425]

If going intel I'd suggest an i7 minimum, just based on your usage:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($294.89 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($69.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-2133 Memory ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $564.77
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 06:51 EDT-0400

Watched some review videos about amd ryzen 5. Not sure about it really. In game performance, it seems 7600 is still ahead of AMD? I hate articles which always talk about XX is XX% faster than XX. Then when you watched the actual result/ game performance, it makes no difference. Can I get a TL;DR version lol?

Also, although it 6 cores 12 T, does it necessarily mean they can be fully used? When I bought AMD 1055T which is 6 cores 8 T, seems it can beat i5 2500/2500k, but turns out many games do not support the feature of AMD's technology...So it loses to i5....I only knew this after I bought it. Makes me regret it. Before I get a complete understanding of ryzen, I will try to prevent the same case happen again.

 

[LucoTF]

I do love Intel. See my sig - intel & nvidia. I have no problem at all with you going intel. an i5 would not be enough for your needs though, so go for an i7 and if you can afford it get an overclockable one with a Z series motherboard.

Strictly for gaming, intel wins. For almost anything else (editing, streaming, encoding / rendering), ryzen has the advantage.

 

[herohk0425]

I do love Intel. See my sig - intel & nvidia. I have no problem at all with you going intel. an i5 would not be enough for your needs though, so go for an i7 and if you can afford it get an overclockable one with a Z series motherboard.

Strictly for gaming, intel wins. For almost anything else (editing, streaming, encoding / rendering), ryzen has the advantage.

I forgot to ask a important question about cpu. What actually determines the CPU speed? I mean I know the clock speed...but the point I want to make it IF I got a i5 2500k oc to the same clock speed of i5 6600k, are they making no difference based on same cores and threads? Besides of new technology like SSE 4.1/4.2. Because when I oced my 1055t to 3.4-3.5 GHZ and play a game called The Witcher 3 ultra settings, I am totally fine. If that's the case, then why will people buy new cpu lol?

Do video programs really that demanding? I have not tried rendering videos and playing games at the same time since I do not have enough RAM, so I have no idea what it will take my cpu work load to. I only tried rendering videos only but it seems fine but my this really old cpu.

How far does ryzen lose to intel instead of gamine performance? If it's not a very big difference, then I think you got a point. And I only play for 1080p, no intention to go 4k etc...

 

[LucoTF]

Your first paragraph sounds like the megahertz myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle

Rendering - I don't know your workload, only you do. You said your existing 6 core seems fine, so an i5 would also 'seem fine' or better. but we are finally approaching an era where 4core 4 threads just isn't that much, some of the newest games (battlefield 1) can hammer even the latest i5s

At 1080 / 60fps the difference between ryzen and intel is currently zero, as they both peak way above the 60fps threshold. At 120fps+ and expecially at lower resolutions & settings, intel pulls away somewhat. By the time you've scanned through the graphs on half a dozen reviews you'll get the idea here.

 

[herohk0425]

Your first paragraph sounds like the megahertz myth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megahertz_myth

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_cycle

Rendering - I don't know your workload, only you do. You said your existing 6 core seems fine, so an i5 would also 'seem fine' or better. but we are finally approaching an era where 4core 4 threads just isn't that much, some of the newest games (battlefield 1) can hammer even the latest i5s

At 1080 / 60fps the difference between ryzen and intel is currently zero, as they both peak way above the 60fps threshold. At 120fps+ and expecially at lower resolutions & settings, intel pulls away somewhat. By the time you've scanned through the graphs on half a dozen reviews you'll get the idea here.

You are right! I think I'll go AMD Ryzen 1600. Thank you very much for your advice.

I understand now...but is there any way to take a look at the actual spec/data? I mean you can see two difference cpu's clock speed on their website, any data represents something like IPC?

About MB and RAM, the MB you suggest is quite cheap. So, I assume it's not for OC? But the RAM is DDR4-3000? Why?It seems very OC-oriented. From what I know about RAM, ddr3 1333 is 5% slower than ddr3 1600. But it makes no difference when in game performance. I only know people buy high spec RAM for OC later. Originally, I only thought about ddr4 2133...

Extra thing bout OC, if I use these 3 things to OC, will it make a good OC? Might need it after a few years.

 

[madmatt30]

I'd argue 16gb is entirely sufficient for your needs mate honestly.
I've rendered simultaneous streams at 4k in the past & never used more than 13gb.

Ryzen thrives on fast ram under CPU intensive workloads.
It does however have issues at present running 4 sticks or dual rank ram past 2666mhz.

For me personally the asrock b350 boards are the ones to go for on a price to quality level

 

[LucoTF]

Ipc: you could look at something like single core benchmarks: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

Mobo: ryzen struggles to get past 4.1 or so even on high end boards, its more cost effective to buy something like the tomahawk which hits 3.9 to 4.0 oc rather than pay more for negligible performance impact.

Ram: intel dont care bout ram speed, ryzen does

 

[LucoTF]

Matt: i wasnt going to argue against 32gb as there are a couple of rendering programs that will use more than 16, however for the average joe 16 is usually plenty. Any known issues with ryzen and 2x16gb setups?

 

[madmatt30]

16gb stick are all going to be dual rank mate.
Its an issue in itself then because most board specs actually state dual rank ram or 4 sticks of single rank will only run at 2666.
The good thing here is they'll likely run at 1t with tight timings & realistically you're incredibly close to 2933 2t performance wise.

I think for 32gb I'd just go straight for 4x8gb trident z 3000/3200 or 2x16gb trident z & cross my fingers to be honest.
The higher speed fortis & flare are just too expensive to consider & in all honesty I really really doubt you'll be running them full speed either.

The fickleness with ram speeds is a massive shame really.
I think the ryzens should have been advertised with only native 2666mhz support stated in the first place & everything above given an OC moniker.

It would have stopped the incessant moaning when people can't run the ram full speed.

I got ballistix sport 2400 running here at 2933mhz here just off the bat without a single issue , absolutely crackers because I dropped it in another b350 pro 4 board (which/is what I'm using myself) to try out & it would not boot past 2400mhz!!
Absolutely nonsensical .

 

[LucoTF]

Thanks, any particular reason for trident Z over the vengeance LPX or even something like ripjaws V?

 

[madmatt30]

Yes mate the 3000 cas 15 & 3200 cas 16 stuff is Samsung b-die which is what people are getting the best results with generally.

Most people are hitting 2933 1t with those 2 models with very little trouble


Which is why the price has increased fairly dramatically the last 2 weeks.

 

[LucoTF]

that is fickle indeed, thanks for the info (and sorry herohk0425 for straying off topic)

 

[madmatt30]

^ not really off topic though.
Gist us really don't 'expect' faster than 2666 with 32gb ram .
If you get it all good , if you don't then its not the end of the world.
To be honest I'd probably stick with the corsair lpx because its $30 less than the trident z .
You'll likely be limited to 2666mhz anyway & $30 is $30 .
Even at 2400 MHz performance is nowhere near as detrimental as benchmarks suggest really.
Extra 45 seconds to render a video ?? Not really of massive importance to me personally.

Coming from an old phenom ?? Can't see any disappointment at all really, just a massive massive upgrade in any respect.At a realively easy 3.8ghz on the ryzen you're probably touching the same performance as that phenom would at close to 6ghz (which is plain impossible)

 

[herohk0425]

I'd argue 16gb is entirely sufficient for your needs mate honestly.
I've rendered simultaneous streams at 4k in the past & never used more than 13gb.

Ryzen thrives on fast ram under CPU intensive workloads.
It does however have issues at present running 4 sticks or dual rank ram past 2666mhz.

For me personally the asrock b350 boards are the ones to go for on a price to quality level

ATM 16GB for me both recording gameplay and rendering videos at the same time is enough. I know this. But time will change. Remember years ago when 4 GB RAM is fairly enough for a game, 20GB is the standard size for a 3A game? Well, look at now, games will require 8GB RAM to run, some of them even require more and they take 50-60GB of your hard disk or even more....

As I mentioned before, this PC has to run 5-6 years. We don't know what's going to be after 5-6 years. So I think going 32 GB is sufficiently reasonable for me.

 

[herohk0425]

^ not really off topic though.
Gist us really don't 'expect' faster than 2666 with 32gb ram .
If you get it all good , if you don't then its not the end of the world.
To be honest I'd probably stick with the corsair lpx because its $30 less than the trident z .
You'll likely be limited to 2666mhz anyway & $30 is $30 .
Even at 2400 MHz performance is nowhere near as detrimental as benchmarks suggest really.
Extra 45 seconds to render a video ?? Not really of massive importance to me personally.

Coming from an old phenom ?? Can't see any disappointment at all really, just a massive massive upgrade in any respect.At a realively easy 3.8ghz on the ryzen you're probably touching the same performance as that phenom would at close to 6ghz (which is plain impossible)

Read all you guys ' discussion. Don't quite understand what's going on really lol. Do I need to choose another model of RAM and MB because "ryzen cpu has issues ocing at dual rank or quad rank??

 

[madmatt30]

Ryzen currently has issues with hitting speeds 2933 & above with both double sided ram (which 16gb sticks are going to be) & also 4 stick single or double sided ram (which is what 4x8gb sticks is going to be)

You are therefore unlikely to hit 2933mhz or above with any 32gb configuration.
There have been many board bios updates to try & address this issue but as I've already said with most boards their specs state that 2666mhz native with these configurations is the max speed they actually guarantee.

Amd pushed ryzen out stating 'compatible with memory speeds up to 3600mhz'.

This pushed consumers into believing that 3600mhz ram is an absolute 100% dead certainty which is nowhere the actual case.

32gb - you'll likely be running at 2666mhz max - its as simple as that.
Not something I'd consider any kind of major issue at all, it hardly 'cripples' the ryzen chips running at that speed & performance is still great.

 

[LucoTF]

From what ive read recently it seems that 2x16gb dual rank would be better than 4x8gb single rank as 4 vs 2 dimm has a bit more of a performance hit than dual vs single rank ram. We aren't talking big numbers though.

 

[madmatt30]

I agree , for 32gb I would personally stick with 2x16gb sticks too.

Hardly a new occurrence having trouble getting 4 sticks to run full speed , am3/am3+ was exactly the same.
Intel sky/kaby doesn't seem to have any issue at all.

 

[LucoTF]

This would be your best bet without breaking the bank: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/jcTrxr/gskill-memory-f42800c15d32gvr