Info Netgear MS510TX Reviewed: Interesting Development in Multi-Gigabit Switch Market

bit_user

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This model recently caught my attention. It almost perfectly fits my needs & budget. Now, a new review of it has just appeared:



If fan is not quiet enough, I found a Noctua that should do the job. Since its flow rate is a little lower, I wouldn't use it if you plan to heavily load the switch and/or use it in hotter settings:



BTW, does anyone remember when Tom's actually reviewed networking equipment? I think the last such review I saw was of 802.11n routers.
 

RealBeast

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It was long ago since networking gear unfortunately.
I just picked up a QNAP QSW-308S 10GbE Switch, with 3-Port 10G SFP+ and 8-Port Gigabit Unmanaged Switch, which was exactly what I needed in my office for now and it was only $158. It has 8 gigabit ports, and either 3 10 gigabit SPF+ (which is what I needed). You can use one SPF+ 10 gigabit and one 10GbE RJ45 port as an alternative.
 
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2.5g and 5g ports are almost a dead technology before they came to market. The cost of 10g ports I suspect dropped much faster than the manufactures anticipated. In some cases you pay more for the 2.5g or 5g PCIE boards than your do for 10g.

You seldom see reviews of switches anymore I suspect because there is not much to review. The device that are managed are to different in their feature to compare. The unmanged ones pretty much all have the same performance....ie they are all non blocking wire speed devices.

All that really matters is the total back plane fabric bandwidth. Lately even cheap 10g switches have enough capacity to pass not slow the data.

What is kinda strange is that article has a device I keep book marked. They complain that the microtek CSS326-24G-2S+RM does not have a internal power supply. What they seem to ignore is that you can power this switch with Power over ethernet it does not need any power supply. In addition it only costs $139. It is the cheapest PoE powered switch I have seen and it even has 10g ports.
 

bit_user

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2.5g and 5g ports are almost a dead technology before they came to market. The cost of 10g ports I suspect dropped much faster than the manufactures anticipated. In some cases you pay more for the 2.5g or 5g PCIE boards than your do for 10g.
Actually, I was going to post up a link for a 2.5 Gigabit NIC that's only $30:



Thanks for the reminder. If you can beat that (or come close) with a 10 Gig NIC, please post it!

I already bought one for a fileserver that can only sustain about 250 MB/sec - perfect for 2.5 Gigabit!

Intel is also rumored to include 2.5 Gigabit in their upcoming Comet Lake motherboard chipsets. I think a lot of people will jump on the 2.5 Gigabit bandwagon, if they don't have to buy & install a discrete NIC for it.

You seldom see reviews of switches anymore I suspect because there is not much to review.
That's your opinion.

STH certainly finds a lot to review:



Anandtech does a few reviews (including of a 10 Gigabit switch, not long ago), and covers plenty of new networking products:



But, the most obvious thing to review is probably wifi routers (as I already mentioned).

All that really matters is the total back plane fabric bandwidth. Lately even cheap 10g switches have enough capacity to pass not slow the data.
In STH's video review of this switch, they mentioned another model which did not meet their performance expectations. I'm not going to re-watch it to find the one, but it stands in contrast to your assertion that performance tests aren't needed.

Also, reviews are important for the sake of testing things like noise, power consumption, and highlighting neat or broken features.

They complain that the microtek CSS326-24G-2S+RM does not have a internal power supply. What they seem to ignore is that you can power this switch with Power over ethernet it does not need any power supply. In addition it only costs $139. It is the cheapest PoE powered switch I have seen and it even has 10g ports.
Some people just don't like power bricks, and don't happen to have another PoE switch around that they want to connect to it. Sure, you could also use a PoE injector, but that's not materially different from a power brick.

Personally, given a choice between an internal and external power supply, I prefer internal. And I don't have a PoE switch in my home office.
 
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Your main issue is this type of equipment is being marketed to the home user. Enterprise customers have had 10gig stuff for year and are not going back to 2.5 or 5g. Most large companies do not even run their own data centers anymore. There are only a very limited number of customers for this equipment. Most people only use their network for internet access so do not need powerful equipment. Seems your typical consumer does not care about specs when reviews for other types of equipment rate how well RGB lighting effects are.
 

bit_user

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Your main issue is this type of equipment is being marketed to the home user.
Which thankfully now includes 2.5 Gigabit.

Most people only use their network for internet access so do not need powerful equipment.
Copying data between machines with SSDs or NAS boxes is a fine use case for faster than Gigabit. It's a power-user feature, for sure, but I'm glad to see 2.5 Gigabit finally trickling down to non-workstation desktop boards.
 
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bit_user

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If you want to feel special I guess but it is not something most people are going to use.
I keep seeing this kind of sentiment and I just don't get it. This forum is for power users - not "most people". Like I said, once upper-end mainstream boards start shipping with 2.5 Gigabit, I think you'll see some real uptake in the multi-gigabit switch market. That's probably what Netgear is betting on.

Your posts almost seem like advertising for this product.
I'm excited about this product. I wish it were a bit cheaper and passively-cooled, but it's finally the switch I've been waiting for!

I have been waiting for > 1 Gigabit Ethernet to go mainstream for a long time. So, it should be understandable why I'm excited.

I have absolutely no connection to Netgear, however. Show me a comparable or better switch, that's passive or cheaper, from another brand, and I'll switch to singing its praises, instead!
 
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I've just installed this switch and also love its overall functionality. Because it's installed directly on my table I don't like the fan noise either. Currently I've put the noctua low-noise adapter but ordered Noctua NF-A4x20-FLX
 
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Update: Noctua NF-A4x20-FLX didn't help, the noise inside the box in still unbearable even with low noise adapters. I love quite environments. The box is pretty hot in the CPU area, I switched off the 40mm fan anyways, then simply opened the top cover and... IC Temp(C) temperature dropped from 54C to 46C. With Noctua NF-F12 on top - from 46C to 34C! Even without a low-noise adapter, this fan can only be when you put your ear close to it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/huxbj1jpyvfl531/photo_2020-05-05_17-07-05.jpg?dl=0
 
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bit_user

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Update: Noctua NF-A4x20-FLX didn't help, the noise inside the box in still unbearable even with low noise adapters.
Thanks for letting us know. I would just point out that the FLX advertises rotational speeds of:

5000/4400/3700 RPM speed settings via Low-Noise Adaptors

...whereas the PWM version can spin as slowly as 1200 RPM, depending on the device's fan curve.

I switched off the 40mm fan anyways, then simply opened the top cover and... IC Temp(C) temperature dropped from 54C to 46C. With Noctua NF-F12 on top - from 46C to 34C!
Again, the detail is much appreciated.

Just to confirm, those measurements were taken when using the following ports:
  • 3x 1 Gbps
  • 2x 2.5 Gbps
  • 1x 5 Gbps
  • 0x 10 Gbps
Is that correct? And at typical ambient room temperature?

I wonder if there's not a better way... I'm planning on trying the PWM version of that fan and using the anti-vibration nubs instead of screws. I might also try cutting away the fan guard.

Anyway, the other mod I was planning (and the reason I don't want to run with its case open) is to attach an external magnetic dust filter:


However, controlling the noise is my first priority.
 
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From my personal experience those small 40mm fans can never be silent (speed doesn't matter much) simply because of their size.

Measurements were taken when using
  • 3x 1 Gbps
  • 3x 2.5 Gbps
  • 0x 5 Gpbs
  • 0x 10 Gbps
Ambient temperature - about 21C.
120mm fan is overkill here actually, i swapped it with NF-B9 PWM and it performs perfect.
I do dislike the open case scenario but it's currently dead silent and ice cold (stable 28C at the moment!). Current idea: cut out 90mm hole on the top metal housing and mount NF-B9 PWM on top. Not nice but very effective. I'm thinking further... Unfortunately I didn't understand the idea with dust filters.



Update: if wonder if the default 40mm is doing anything useful here at all: it's working as exhaust (to cool down the psu apparently? but it's very cold, all heat comes from the mainboard area)
 
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bit_user

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Thanks for correcting the details on your test setup and providing the ambient temp.

I ordered the PWM fan and will let you know what I think of it.

Unfortunately I didn't got the idea with dust filters.
You mean that you don't understand? The idea is to stick a magnetic dust filter across the intake (assuming the case stays closed). That + periodic removal & washing of the dust filter will keep the insides free of dust, which will help keep the fan towards the bottom of its curve.

That's the idea, at least.

This image is broken, for me. Did you link a preview, instead of a published pic?

Update: if wonder if the default 40mm is doing anything useful here at all: it's working as exhaust (to cool down the psu apparently? but it's very cold, all heat comes from the mainboard area)
Really? Dust filters work better with a positive-pressure setup. So, I'll ensure mine is acting as an intake fan (i.e. physically re-orienting the fan, if needed).
 
I keep seeing this kind of sentiment and I just don't get it. This forum is for power users - not "most people". Like I said, once upper-end mainstream boards start shipping with 2.5 Gigabit, I think you'll see some real uptake in the multi-gigabit switch market. That's probably what Netgear is betting on.


I'm excited about this product. I wish it were a bit cheaper and passively-cooled, but it's finally the switch I've been waiting for!

I have been waiting for > 1 Gigabit Ethernet to go mainstream for a long time. So, it should be understandable why I'm excited.

I have absolutely no connection to Netgear, however. Show me a comparable or better switch, that's passive or cheaper, from another brand, and I'll switch to singing its praises, instead!
Absolute tosh, most of the questions posted on this forum are clearly not from power users, I'm not sure splitting hairs helps anyone. I agree with bill001g, 2.5 and 5GbE is a non starter.
 
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bit_user

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Absolute tosh, most of the questions posted on this forum are clearly not from power users,
Most questions are from non-power users, but that's biased because most power users don't tend to have many questions.

I think most forum activity is by power users, and the site's articles are certainly not aimed towards noobs that don't know their way around the inside of a PC.

Anyway, you're simply wrong, if you think discussion of > 1 Gigabit networking products has no place on this forum. If this product isn't personally of interest to you, I have no apologies to offer. Please leave this thread and do not return, unless and until you're willing to contribute anything of value.

And please take @Mandark with you.
 
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I agree with bill001g, 2.5 and 5GbE is a non starter.
Really? I've got Synology DS918+ that doesn't offer anything except 1Gbit (no PCIe card expansion). With a simple 2.5Gbit USB adapter speeds changed from
113MB/s download, 101MB/s upload
to
280MB/s download, 252MB/s upload

From my perspective, 10Gbe with mechanical drives can be justified only with serious hardware and appropriate raid setup. For small business / home users 2.5/5 can be quite useful.
 
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Really? I've got Synology DS918+ that doesn't offer anything except 1Gbit (no PCIe card expansion). With a simple 2.5Gbit USB adapter speeds changed from
113MB/s download, 101MB/s upload
to
280MB/s download, 252MB/s upload

From my perspective, 10Gbe with mechanical drives can be justified only with serious hardware and appropriate raid setup. For small business / home users 2.5/5 can be quite useful.

Same here, I don't agree with 10g or bust mentality at all. I have an older QNAP 451+ which is gigabit only. But QNAP released USB3.0 to 5gbe adapters and I was stoked. I purchased this switch (MS510TX) and a couple of the qnap 5gbe adapters in the summer of last year. It's been working great and now my speeds went from about 100MB/s up to 230MB/s(limit of my raid 5 array). My NAS and networking equipement are in the basement, so noise isn't an issue for me. Though when walking in the basement, I don't notice any fan noise.

For home users and small business(like a photo/video studio), having this many 2.5/5g and 10g ports at this price is awesome.

Also, what they're leaving out is the multi-gigabit standard 802.11bz was actually designed to use cat5e and allow for for faster speeds with older wiring. Many homes and business will not want to rewire their buildings for cat6 ethernet. Sorry, but it's alot of work, not to mention you might have to open up some walls in the process. But with CAT5e, you can run 5gb/s at shorter distances and 2.5gb/s on longer runs. It's one of the main reasons we've been stuck at 1gbe for so long. Once the price of large switches goes down and intel releases their 2.5gbe motherboard chipset, we'll see more widespread adoption of 802.11gz because it's an in-place upgrade.

2.5gbe with cat5e up to 100meters
5bge with cat5e up to 55 meters
5gbe with cat6 up to 100meters
10gbe with with cat6 up to 100meters
 
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bit_user

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Same here, I don't agree with 10g or bust mentality at all.
Yeah, like if there were a new generation of CPU design that could net you a 250% speedup on all workloads (including single-threaded) all of these people would lose their minds with praise and adulation. Yet, somehow networking gets stuck between this weird vibe of "gigabit should be good enough for everybody" and "if it's not 10 Gig, it's crap".

In tech, it's getting increasingly rare to see such massive jumps in performance as even 2.5x. M.2/NVMe was kind of the last example, except not really, since you could already use PCIe add-in-cards to surpass SATA bottlenecks - M.2/NVMe just made it more mainstream and we all agreed it was good - even though a lot of people (dare I say most?) don't really need the extra performance over already-fast SATA SSDs (bolstered by operating systems' built-in caching and write-buffering).

I just have less and less patience for multi-gigabit haters.
 
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bit_user

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BTW, another down side of using 10 Gigabit over RJ-45 is power. It takes a lot more power to drive such high-frequency signals over those distances than 2.5 or even 5 Gb/sec.

And for those of us who want affordable 8+ port switches that don't sound like hairdryers, that's an important factor.
 
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