New AMD Gaming System

Mr Cipher · Oct 19, 2007

Hi Everyone,

Well I’m a long time reader, first time forum writer and I was hoping for some constructive suggestions. I am considering the following system as an upgrade from my current Asus A8R-MVP, AMD 64 3700+ (skt 939), 2x1024mb value ram, Sapphire X1600 XT x2 (crossfire). It will run on an Win XP OS:

MoBo: ASUS Crosshair
CPU: AMD X2 6400+ Skt AM2 (Windsor 3.2Ghz)
GPU: EVGA E-GeFORCE 8800GTS Superclocked 640mb (for 22” Wide LCD 1680x1050 res)
HD: WD 500GB SATAII 7200RPM
Mem: OCZ Reaper HPC Edition PC2-6400 2x1gb kit (4-4-4-15-1T)

I can get this for a total build of CDN$1059 + ~$70 tax. And my budget is about CDN$1400

Specifically, I was wondering:
1. Is the memory a good choice? I noticed OCZ has titanium, platinum and gold sticks of memory too – is there a difference?
2. Is there a big performance difference between the BFG and eVGA cards? They are similarly priced and OC’d at my e-tailer.
3. Would it be better to get the non superclocked video card and OC’ing it myself?
4. Should I bother with SLI? Ie. 2x 8600gts 256mb or 2x8800gts 320mb, versus one 8800gts 640mb or even one 8800gtx if I push the budget?
5. Should I get the AM2 6000+ and OC myself?
6. What kind of case should I get? I realize this is personal preference but I don't know what to look for in a case other than many fan mounts for cooling!
7. Am I missing other parts? Ie. Should I get better cpu cooling, heatsinks for anything, case fans etc? (obviously related to #6)

Ultimately, I guess what I am getting at with #3 and 5 is if the extra few $$ for the OC worth it? Are those video cards better quality since they’re, in a sense, supercharged?

Finally, my computer will be entirely for gaming, and to also push my components a little bit with some modest OC’ing (0 experience doing so though as I tried on my a8r-mvp and it never posts even at a modest 5% increase so I gave up). Lastly, is my system future proof? I read something about a dual dual-core setup with the FX-74 on an asus mobo, but I couldn't find much about it...

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Mr.C

Maziar · Oct 19, 2007

1_The difference between TITANIUM, GOLD and PLATINUM is in their timings and the one u choosed is awesome , i have mine and i love it, dont change it

2_No, but EVGA has step up program

3_It depends on u , i got a OCZ 8800GTX and as u see i have OC'd alot(faster than any Factory OC'd 8800GTX)

4_I have talked about 2 midrange cards vs one high-end card:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/245454-15-crossfire-faqs
If u can , go for the GTX, its worth it

5_X2 6000 runs @ 3.0 and X2 6400 runs @ 3.2, even if u dont OC a X2 6000 , the difference between these 2 CPUs isnt much

6_Get something big with lots of fans (like my ThermalTake ARMOR)

7_Looks very nice

The word "Future Proof" has been dead , there is no such thing , but u will be happy with your rig
Dont even think about QuadFX, they have alot of noise and also in some apps they will lose to a DualCore

here is the review of QuadFX :
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-quad-fx.html

aadamszc · Oct 19, 2007

1. Is the memory a good choice? I noticed OCZ has titanium, platinum and gold sticks of memory too – is there a difference? Yeah, that memory would do good if you are considering oc'ing. I would imagine that the difference is just the speeds, but I am not sure.
2. Is there a big performance difference between the BFG and eVGA cards? They are similarly priced and OC’d at my e-tailer.
Well, if you go with eVGA, then I believe you qualify for their stup-up program. That is -- you can upgrade a better card if one comes out withing 3 months of your purchase. I think eVGA is just a bit more universally known to have better quality than BFG also. Again, I may be totally wrong.
3. Would it be better to get the non superclocked video card and OC’ing it myself? I would imagine that you could overclock it pretty easily yourself. How much is the price difference?
4. Should I bother with SLI? Ie. 2x 8600gts 256mb or 2x8800gts 320mb, versus one 8800gts 640mb or even one 8800gtx if I push the budget?
Everyone will tell you not to go for the 8600s, and to go for the one gtx. I would do that, if this was my computer.
5. Should I get the AM2 6000+ and OC myself? I haven't really looked much into AMD, but I imagine overclocking a little bit wouldn't increase temperature too much. On the same note, if you are only gaining like $20 for the downgrade, just stick with the 6400.
6. What kind of case should I get? I realize this is personal preference but I don't know what to look for in a case other than many fan mounts for cooling! What is your budget?
7. Am I missing other parts? Ie. Should I get better cpu cooling, heatsinks for anything, case fans etc? (obviously related to #6) You might need 3rd part cooling if you are planning on overclocking the cpu or gpu, and will need 3rd party cooling if you are doing both. On that same note, what are planning on using for a PSU? If you are overclocking, it will take a bit more power. I see some minor parts missing(optical, input, psu, etc.), but I assume you are just reusing those.

For an entirely gaming system, you generally like a better GPU than a CPU. I am pretty sure that games are alot more dependent on the GPU than the CPU, now-a-days.

From what I know, the gtx, and an intel cpu would be more furture proof, but you can't really make a future proof system now-a-days anyways.

*Note: Take my opinions as a grain of salt.

elbert · Oct 19, 2007

MoBo: ASUS Crosshair
CPU: AMD X2 6400+ Skt AM2 (Windsor 3.2Ghz)
GPU: EVGA E-GeFORCE 8800GTS Superclocked 640mb (for 22” Wide LCD 1680x1050 res)
HD: WD 500GB SATAII 7200RPM
Mem: OCZ Reaper HPC Edition PC2-6400 2x1gb kit (4-4-4-15-1T)

I can get this for a total build of CDN$1059 + ~$70 tax. And my budget is about CDN$1400

CDN$300 is tight for the rest of your parts. I suggest cutting your CPU down as games don't depend heavily on the CPU. I would suggest a 65nm brisbane X2 as they do run cooler and who knows you may can OC one to 3.3GHz. This one doesn't come with a HSF but that gives your the choice of getting a good 1.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103194 US$129.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125 US$19.99

Thats about US$60 savings about enough for a good PSU.

I suggest not buying the 8800GTS as the 8800GT will be cheaper and faster. The 8800GT should require less amperage which will save you on your PSU choice. The 8800GT pricing is rumored to be $199~$249 which is much cheaper than the current slower 8800GTS. OCT 29 I think is the release date for the new 8800GT so give it about 10 days.

starcraftfanatic · Oct 19, 2007

Are you dead set on AMD? a E6750 on newegg costs the same and will perform better, but you always could upgrade to Phenom as well with AMD.

RedZone · Oct 19, 2007

honestly the set up is good but if i were u id drop the 6400+ and buy the 5000+

at canadacomputers ( canadian) the price difference is 120 dollars which would allow you to upgrade from the 8800GTS 640 meg to the 8800 GTX

you will get a huge preformance boost going to the GTX compared to what the cpu speed increase will give you. this can be seen in the vga charts espeicaly at that high of a res.

zenmaster · Oct 19, 2007

If you can wait, next month the 8800GT should be out and be faster than the 8800GTS and Cheaper too boot.

If you are into OCing, AMD is not really the best way to go.
Either buy the CPU at the speed you want or go Intel.

The Lowly E2160 easily OC's to 3.2-3.4Ghz on stock cooling and will beats or matches the X2-6400 at stock speeds for a fraction of the cost.

Get a E6x50 CPU and they can do 3.6-3.8Ghz on Stock and devistate since they have 4x the cache of the 2xxx C2D Series.

nurn · Oct 19, 2007

I have to agree with zen... go with E2160 dual core processor, a bare bones name brand mobo, and max out your budget for the video card (8800 GTX if you can afford it) and a good quality PSU.

Mr Cipher · Oct 20, 2007

starcraftfanatic/nurn/zenmaster: I'll take a look at what intel offers as far as cpu/mobo is concerned. Maybe Intel's dualcore isn't such a bad idea after all if they and OC so high on stock cooling. Hopefully it's not too hard for a newb! (is there a specific LGA mobo you might suggest for good OC'ing?)

I was only set on AMD because they were who I've used for years now...and I don't know much about the new CPUs.

To everyone else - thanks for your input. I might ask a few more questions before my system is complete (and once it is, I'll have to figure out how to OC!).

zenmaster · Oct 20, 2007

OCing is not tough to a certain so long as you don't push the chip too far.

Example - For the E2160, All you need to know is to set the memory ratio to 1:1 and set the FSB to 333.

This will yield 3.0Ghz on the CPU (From 1.8 Ghz.) and is not really pressing the CPU. This should run fine on stock cooling.

Now, You can likely push the CPU to 3.2 to 3.4 ghz, but that would take a bit of extra know how such as voltage levels, or other things.

If you are not going to OC, the AMDs generally give a better bang for the buck, but generally do not have a large OC potential. Prior to C2D, they ruled the OC market, but no longer. The fact you can close to dbl the performance of the low end chips make them a steal.

If you budget is tight, don't rush into things.
I think the 8800GT will be a great GPU very soon.
Now the 8800GT is just conjecture from what I have read.
But some leaked numbers show it faster than the 8800GTS.
Another Leak at FoxConn shows that it may be released at $250.
This would be an amazing double win.
The fact it uses a smaller die process, it should also run cooler for the tri-fecta.

Mr Cipher · Oct 20, 2007

Alright well I decided to go with an intel system...

Case: Antec 900
PSU: Corsair hx 620 or OCZ 700 GameXStream (for LEDs)
HSF: Tuniq (for LEDs) or Thermalright w. scythe
MoBo: gigabyte GA-p35C-DS3R
CPU: E2160
RAM: OCQ Reaper 2x1gb PC6400
HD: WD500gb
GPU: BFG 8800GTX OC2 (since the eVGA is on backorder)

all this for $1296 (tuniq/ocz psu) to $1340 (thermalright/hx620)

Can't wait to OC this ah heck, even if the cache is 1mb!

aadamszc · Oct 20, 2007

Looks very good. I'm jealous. Have Fun.

boner · Oct 20, 2007

AMD sucks

Maziar · Oct 20, 2007

Mr Cipher :

Looks awesome ,but get P35 DS3R instead of P35C DS3R, beause P35C DS3R 4GB DDR3 option is limited to 4GB but DDR2 option is limited to 8GB, so DDR3 wont become useful , also P35 DS3R OCs better than P35C DS3R

fatcat · Oct 20, 2007

Mr Cipher :

Nice picks, I got the Corsair PSU and it's a very nice piece. Concerning the motherboard, that's the one I am using and as far as OC'ing is concern you got to be careful. This MB has terrible voltage regulation. It has a tendency to over volt the ram and drop the CPU voltage quite a bit under load. Many people can live with that but frankly had I known that before I purchased it I might have gone for another MB. I don't know maybe future BIOS update might fix this. A lot of people don't mind but I find it to be annoying. Also, I'd go with the tuniq tower instead of the Thermalright even if it's the top cooler now. I don't know if this has been fixed but a lot of people were having issues with the base of that HS not being perfectly flat. Unless you're into lapping and stuff like that I'd go with the tuniq.

elbert · Oct 20, 2007

Mr Cipher :

The 2160 is ok but the 2180 has a higher multiplier and will make OCing easy. Higher bin at least on the bottom end and should hit a higher OC. It will atleast make life easy on your mobo. I think it costs about US$10 more. Again the 8800GT is cheaper and at less than half the cost of a GTX and on some games even matches the ultra according to early benchmarks.

sunny27 · Oct 20, 2007

i think its not worth upgrading to an amd now,if u can hold on for a bit till the new phenoms/barcelona cpus come out it would be worth the investment.

MrCommunistGen · Oct 20, 2007

I agree with Maziar about the P35C vs P35. The rest of it looks good. Not sure if listed prices in that build are CDN or US since the prices aren't broken down...

-mcg

Mr Cipher · Oct 20, 2007

So as I understand it, I should consider a E2180 for better OC potential over the 2160 ($95 vs $85 cdn), a tuniq tower so I don't have to worry about lapping, and getting a p35 mobo over the p35c ($131 vs $157). So I'll save a total of $16 after switching to a p35 and buying an e2180. (all prices from www.tddirect.ca)

I don't really care about ddr3, I want a good OC'ing mobo - I thought the ddr3 support would be nice but I suppose I can always overclock my faster-timing ddr2 sticks right?

Also, if I can afford the gtx, is it worth "downgrading" to the 8800gts? Or that new 8800gt I am told is coming out?

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I am really happy with the help and I think I have a computer that I am going to have a lot of fun with...if nothing else I can buy the quads when they are cheaper, and then the new 45nm cores when they are cheaper too, with this mobo.

Maziar · Oct 21, 2007

Dont worry about DDR3, the difference with DDR2 is %0-%10

also if u can get a 8800GTX , definitely go for it , its worth it, dont change it a 8800GTS , also there are no official benchmarks about 8800GT , but if the rumors are right , it still wont beat a 8800GTX, so go for a 8800GTX

Mr Cipher · Oct 22, 2007

After four days of intense research and Q&A I got a system I like. There was a toss up between the antec 900, and the thermaltake armor va8000, but for some reason I liked the PSU on the bottom of the Antec more. Plus I thought the Armor's doors looked stupid. And the $70 I saved allowed me to get the HSF...

Case: Antec 900 ($89.99)
PSU: Corsair 620hx ($157.99)
HSF: Thermalright ultra-120 extreme ($49.80)
Fan for HSF: Scythe S-Flex 1600rpm ($14.99)
HD: WD500GB, aaks model ($89.99)
Mem: OCZ Reaper PC2-6400 4-4-4-15-1T ($91.51)
MoBo: GA-P35-DS3R ($131.57)
CPU: E2180 ($95.40 -- Plekto mentioned an E2200 will be out in Dec!!)
GPU: BFG 8800GTX OC ($540.65)
DVD: LG GSA-H62N SATA ($26.99

Total tax+shipping+insurance= $1416 CDN (incl lapping supplies for my hsf)

I think this system is gonna be a beast! Thanks everyone for your help.

Maziar · Oct 22, 2007

Armors door are stupid ? Antech 900 is good , but ARMOR is better for sure , its bigger, more cooling options ......

but that rig looks very nice , enjoy it

New AMD Gaming System

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