[SOLVED] new budget DIY gaming PC - Intel or AMD

[Robomcd]

Going to build a budget gaming PC for my grandson, so he has something to do while staying home since schools are closed here. Checked some things out, and came to the following setup choice:

1) INTEL: CPU Intel i5 9400 F with Asus Prime Z390 motherboard and GPU NVidea GTX 1660 super

2) ADM: CPU AMD Ryzen R5 3600x, Asus ASUS ROG Strix B450-F motherboard and GPU Sapphire Radeon RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB DDR5

For the rest, 16 GB RAM, 250 or 500 GB NVMe SSD for OS and 1 TB HDD for storage.

Last time I looked, about 10 years ago, Intel was the automatic choice to go. Now a quick check came up with this ADM alternative. In price, the intel is a bit more expensive, but not enough to be a deal decider. Any arguments which is the better choice?

Next question, is there a component where its easy to say, spend a few $$ more on this, and you have a much better product?

He is coming from something very very slow now, and this will even be better than my old but still very quick i7 DIY video editing PC from some years ago, so I am only interested in significant differences or risks.

Thanks for the help, stay safe

 

[DrummerManSpike]

With those CPU's specifically, the R5 3600X has much better performance, but the Intel build's GPU, GTX 1660 Super, is slightly better than the AMD build's RX 580. Why not stick the 1660 on the AMD build? Are these pre-built, or are you building it yourself?

I'd also recommend 500GB over 250GB for your OS, if your budget allows it.

 

[Robomcd]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I thought the GTX 1660 Super was more or less build to be combined with Intel. Can you combine that GPU with an ADM CPU and motherboard? I seem to remember from long ago that you could not automatically interchange them.

I thought that with the 1 TB HDD for storage, a 250 was big enough for OS and current games, and we could save some $$ by not going bigger.

 

[DrummerManSpike]

Not sure how things were long ago, but nowadays you can most definitely interchange graphics cards! Most if not all modern motherboards come with at least one PCI-E x16 slot, which is what most if not all modern graphics cards use to connect to the motherboard.

The only connection differences come from the power. Some low end GPUs draw power directly from the motherboard, while mid-high end GPUs draw power externally from the PSU. Most 1660 Super models use a single 8-pin PSU connection for power, and pretty much all PSUs will have at least one connection slot available for this, as it's the standard.

If you want to save money by going for a 250 for the OS, that's totally fine too! Just make sure not to go any lower, as ~250 is the current minimum standard for just the OS. However if you plan to run games off the OS drive instead of the HDD, 500 is definitely recommended. It's technically possible to do so on the 250, but it's very likely that you'll see overall performance decreases as you fill the drive up.

 

[Robomcd]

We will be building it ourselves. We will check prices for the 1660 super again and try that.

With the Samsung 960 EVO series, the 500 GB is about $50 more expensive as the 250 here in the Czech Republic.

You think the ASUS ROG Strix B450-F motherboard can handle this without problem?

 

[Robomcd]

I think the ASUS Rog Strix B450F has two slots for M2 memory. With the new type of NVMe M2 SSDs, does it make sense to have a 125 GB for Windows and other programs, and the second a 250 Gb purely for games?

 

[geofelt]

Either could work.

As a rule of thumb, budget about 2x the cpu cost for the graphics card.
Here, you are about 1:1

Today, you can mix amd/nvidia cards with intel/amd motherboards as you wish.
The GTX1660 super is a stronger card than the RX580.
And, the RX580 needs some 125w more.
If son plays fast action games, spend more on the graphics card.

If son plays multiplayer games with many participants, then buy a cpu with many threads like the 12 thread r5 3600.
Otherwise, few games can effectively use more than the 6 threads of the i5-9400f.

If son plays more cpu centric games like sims, strategy or MMO games, then look to a processor with higher maximum clock rates.
ryzen does not overclock well and a clock of 4.3 on all cores might be what you would expect.
Intel 9th gen K suffix processors like the 9600K or 9700K will generally reach 5.0

Once you budget $200 or so(US) you will have a adequate gaming processor whatever you buy.
Budget $400 or so and you will have a good gaming graphics card.


Some thoughts on your suggestions:

I would not begrudge buying a Z390 based motherboard for the Intel option. It will allow a future upgrade to a overclockable K suffix processor. Overclocking is not what it used to be. Today, it is simply raising the multiplier in the bios on K suffix processors to higher than the stock level. Intel offers a app to do this automatically:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-cpu-auto-overclock-performance-maximizer,6179.html
OTOH, if you will never upgrade, you can use a cheaper 300 series motherboard.

Make that ram a single 2 x 8gb kit.
Intel is not fussy about ram speeds.
Ryzen is more tightly integrated to ram.
Faster ram for ryzen makes a difference.
If you go ryzen, pick a supported kit from the motherboard ram QVL list.

On the ssd/HDD combo, I would definitely go with a single ssd drive.
If budget is an issue, buy a single sata ssd like a 1tb samsung 860 evo.
The benefit of a pcie drive is faster sequential performance.
some 4x faster.
That is not as big a deal as it seems since most of what windows does is small random I/O and that performance hardly differs.
m.2 is a size format which comes in sata and pcie varieties.
I would suggest a single 1tb m.2 pcie drive and defer on the hard drive.
It is easy to add storage later if you ever need it.
A quality inexpensive unit is the intel 660P.
A better performing ssd would be the samsung 960 evo.

Buy only a quality psu. 650w is appropriate.
The seasonic is always good quality, I like the focus line.

Let son pick the case. Likely he will like one with RGB "bling"
So long as it holds your motherboard and has at least two 120/140mm front intakes you will do fine.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

I personally would not go for either combination.

I would buy a Ryzen 5 1600AF for $85 on Amazon. It is basically a Ryzen 5 2600 and performs just slightly below a 9400f.

However, it cost much less and will allow you to spend more on the GPU to get a better performance overall in games.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Whats your full budget for the system?

 

[Robomcd]

Our budget: $ 700 including monitor. Don't worry, we are over it already.

After all discussions between us and the advice here, we now are more or less decided on the following rig.
When replying, please keep in mind that prices in the Czech Republic are different than USA, mostly higher.
Overclocking: he is fanatic, but on a simple level (13 years old). He is now playing on an old Asus x540 L laptop (i3 4005 laptop with 1 tb, ram 4 gb).

This laptop has problems with minecraft. He now is playing League of Legends, Osu, Prince of Persia, Counterstrike 1.6 and Cuphead. He would like to play Apex Legends, Call of Duty, Doom CS:GO, Cyberpunk, Watch dogs, Dying Light 2, the last of us part II, Destiny. He is playing online multi-player games.

And no, I have no idea what those games are, but at least he is also learning a bit English from this.

I add the prices here in pre-corona rate of 23 Kc for 1 $. Now the rate is 25,5 and rising. Again, even if they would deliver here, AMAZON and Netwegg or whatever US and UK e-shops are now out of the question. Takes too long and with Coruna and the free-falling Czech valuta, it would be at least 10% more than mentioned here plus shipping.

We liked this combo for $ 1000 which is already $300 over the budget he is allowed.
Then again, in February during a school excursion he broke his arm, just before the cast came of he damaged his other hand a bit while skateboarding. Two days after all casts and bandages came off school closed for corona and he is now sitting home already two weeks and getting bored (and driving us crazy). So this is the max -max we can spend. Similar off the shelf PCs here are at least $ 200-300 more expensive, the cheaper one's use i3 and similar as "gaming CPU".

Motherboard: Asus Rog Strix B450-F Gaming.
Price $ 143
We were looking at the 470s and 570s, but the extra price seems too much for what we can spend and need. I know MSI and Gigabyte are as good, but I know and like Asus.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 - 3600:
Price $ 209
Went for this one after spending too much time on internet comparison charts. It was 3600X, but reading some reviews, seems the 3600 is so close to the 3600x as to make not much difference, easy saved $ 45.

GPU: Asus Dual-GTX 1660s EVO
Price $ 287
Recommendation from this forum. The ti's are too expensive.

RAM: HyperX Fury Black 2x8 GB, DDR 4, 2666MHz
Price $ 91

Memory OS: Samsung SSD 970 EVO PLUS M2 250 GB
Price $ 87
The 500 evo plus is $ 143, the 1Tb is $ 278
Maybe instead of 1x 250 or 500, a combo of 1x 128 Gb purely for OS (NVMe or 2.5", kingston, crucial or WD) and 1x 250Gb purely for games might be better at $ 130 in total.

Memory Storage:
Seagate Barracuda 3.5" HDD 1 Tb
Price $ 47
Memory is still under discussion. I always like at least 2 physical drives in a PC. The HDD has will hold all the family pics as well as his own saves, movies (not many) and not often played games, and is back-up.

PSU: 1stCool White Storm 700W
Price: $ 48

Case: Fortron CMT 510 Pluswith 4 ARGB fans and 3 semi-transparent galaxy dark tempered glass panels (he likes cool looking)
Price: $ 100
Question: is that case big enough for the Asus motherboard and graphics?

Aside from the rig
Monitor: Samsung C24F390F curved monitor.
Price: $ 130

Yes, this is an older model from 2016, and the newer C24F396 is out already. However, this older model now is in discount, and the newer model is
$ 45 more expensive. His simple wide-screen monitor has just broken down. We have several good 4:3 monitors, but for modern gaming that really does not do. So why not.

 

[Zoel.fahmi]

Actually a ryzen 5 1600 AF is very cheap and good overclocking ability
Also MSI B450 tomahawk have the best vrm in B450 class
As for ssd buy a cheap with big capacity like vgen or else, it's for OS, game, app only
Buy larger hdd like 2tb if you can to store all the data there
For psu buy cooler master mwe V2 or be quite u9, booth are very good option despite their pricing. 550W will do the job
The rest is up to you

 

[Robomcd]

The smaller and older Ryzens are also good, but we have the funds for this, and would like to get good capacity without overclocking if possible. Seems the Ryzen 5 3600 delivers that and is reasonable future proof for this moment.

I check the Tomohawk, they are similar good, but with somewhat better VRM for serious overclocking. Since we do not plan to do that, I prefer to stay with the ASUS. As to the rest, will look into it and check prices.

 

[Robomcd]

Just read to for freesync to work perfect with GTX, you need to use the display port cable. Unfortunately, the Samsung does not have a display port. HDMI seems to work as well, anybody any experience with that?

AMD cards do it differently, there the freesync works regardless the cable.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Im pretty sure it is displayport only. Loom around here. There is an entire thread explaining syncs and cables.

 

[Robomcd]

did not find the thread, but is seems that almost always it is display port only, which would make this monitor unusable for us.

 

[Robomcd]

Samsung is out. Now top if the short list is the AOC C24G2. We are alos looking at the C24G1 (curved) but I think the G2 is newer and better.

 

[Robomcd]

We finalized the rig and ordered the components in something like the Czech Newegg, only to learn that the Asus DUAL geforce gtx 1660 supper was out of stock. We checked all specs, and decided to go with the Gigabyte 1660 Super OC (not the super gaming oc, which was $ 30 more expensive) which is virtually identical to the ASUS.

If you buy all components with them, for EIGHT US$$ they assemble the PC for you. I would like to try doing it ourselves, but for that price, and it is not worth the hassle and risk of making mistakes. Now we get warranty as well!
Next Wednesday, the new PC will be here.

Edit: Wednesday April 1. And no, it's not a joke

I will report on the rig when here.

Until then, stay home and stay safe.

On that point, touch wood, but with voluntary lock-down in place, it looks the Czech Republic might be on its way to flatten the curve. The first case came here on March 1. With all outbreaks in countries around us, we have only 1,120 sick, 18,000 tested, and 6 recovered. And since yesterday officially 1 death. A 95 year old man who was submitted already to the hospital with sever cardiovascular failures. Its not sure what got him first, but since Corona showed up in the pathology, we have to count it as a victim.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Fun