New build, bad performance in LoL specifically.

[Newae]

First up, the system:

OS: Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit
CPUr: AMD x4 860k
CPU-cooling: Seidon 120v v2, push/pull
Mobo: Asrock FM2A88M Extreme 4+, P2.40
RAM: 2x 4 GB Kingston 1 600 MHz
GPU: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X Dual-X OC
SSD: Intel 530 Series 120GB
PSU: Corsair CX750M
Casecooling: 2x120mm intake och 2x120mm out.
Temps: CPU ~30C in BIOS, GPU ~27C idle.

GPU and RAM are preowned.

Alright so this is my first build. A budget build if you will as I'm not that hardcore.

So I had a few freezes when I started LoL, I get in there, Max out the graphics with no AA still only get 150fps which dips abit. After about a minute or two the screen would freeze, music still playing and I would have to hardreset.

Formatted everything and started anew. Catalyst updated, Recognizes the card as R9 2xx series.
Windows update done. Mobo was pretty much up2date out of the box with the latest P2.40.

Actually made it through these benchmarks:
Running Prime95 for 10 hours no issues.
Furmark Stresstest 1920x1080 no AA for 20mins, Max GPU temp 70, avg FPS 51.
Memtest86, Running now..

Played a 22min game of lol, maxed with capped 60fps no AA but it still dipped to 50ish sometimes. So playable but still subpar, no? That just can't be right?

How is my PC not handling League of Legends? So far it's the only real game I've tried and it is the game I play the most so it is important to me. So that performance along with the Furmark results seem low to me.

Friends with 3 year old computers say they get 300+ fps with AA no issues.

Tips, trix? Grateful for any input!

 

[Newae]

Switched out the R9 for a 660 GTX and had worse issues overall and terrible performance ingame. Gonna see if I missed any mobo updates and/or BIOS settings, aswell as getting new RAM.

 

[tsnor]

Well, An HD7770 can max LoL at 1080p. You've tried two different video cards. Both hugely better than an Hd7770. Check for something stupid, like one of 'gaming experience' programs overriding what you set in LOL and apply some global AA, etc.

For CPU, this chart says an athlon II x2 260 can hit over 100 fps, so your x4 860k shouldn't be having any trouble. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/league-of-legends-performance-benchmark,3484-8.html

Suggest you run a few CPU/mem benchmarks and compare your PC to others with the same CPU and see if you can isolate what is wrong.

Note, if you have a normal 60 hz 1080p monitor you CANT see frame rates above 60 FPS, at 150 fps you are drawing parts of 3 different frames each time your monitor paints its screen 60 hz means 60 times a second. The monitor takes 1/60 sec from start of displaying the screen to end of display. In that time at 150 fps your video card painted 2.5 screens and the monitor displayed pieces of 3 different frames with resultsing screen teraing artifacts. You are better off using vsync and locking your PC to generating 60 fps. But that doesn't answer your question of why does your PC dip down below 50 fps.

Have you seen any of these "..After about a minute or two the screen would freeze, music still playing and I would have to hardreset...." since you reloaded windows? That could be chipset drivers wrong or memory or....

 

[Newae]

Well, An HD7770 can max LoL at 1080p. You've tried two different video cards. Both hugely better than an Hd7770. Check for something stupid, like one of 'gaming experience' programs overriding what you set in LOL and apply some global AA, etc.

For CPU, this chart says an athlon II x2 260 can hit over 100 fps, so your x4 860k shouldn't be having any trouble. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/league-of-legends-performance-benchmark,3484-8.html

Suggest you run a few CPU/mem benchmarks and compare your PC to others with the same CPU and see if you can isolate what is wrong.

Note, if you have a normal 60 hz 1080p monitor you CANT see frame rates above 60 FPS, at 150 fps you are drawing parts of 3 different frames each time your monitor paints its screen 60 hz means 60 times a second. The monitor takes 1/60 sec from start of displaying the screen to end of display. In that time at 150 fps your video card painted 2.5 screens and the monitor displayed pieces of 3 different frames with resultsing screen teraing artifacts. You are better off using vsync and locking your PC to generating 60 fps. But that doesn't answer your question of why does your PC dip down below 50 fps.

Have you seen any of these "..After about a minute or two the screen would freeze, music still playing and I would have to hardreset...." since you reloaded windows? That could be chipset drivers wrong or memory or....

If you google the loss of signal or maybe the freezes you get a lot of results with very few answers, either it LoL ini itself or perhaps a mobo overheating, or whatnot

Did not even get ingame with the GTX 660 because it would freeze in the middle of Furmark, aswell as not starting back up again when trying to reboot.

So yesterday I switched back to the R9, still had to reboot manually a few times as when I do it from windows it shuts down but doesnt come back up, although the PC is running, the screen doesnt start up. Anyway I cleaned drivers and installed CCC, card was recognized properly again and I ran a 22min Furmark, No issues there. But everytime I would reboot after trying something it would never start up properly. Eventually I set the defaults in BIOS and now it would seem I'm stuck in a bootloop. It pretty much has to be the mobo at this point or some settings there or could some faulty memory do this to me despite getting a pass through memtest?

 

[slyu9213]

I've had similar problems with other games. I would play and the game itself freezes yet the sound seems to continue. Usually when this happen you can't even close the game either. From looking at your specs nothing seems like an easy culprit to your issues.

If you're RAM isn't the issue after checking them with Memtest86, I would suggest you get IBT w/ AVX (Intel Burn Test) and run it on Very High 20 Runs or Max 20 Runs. If it passes that the CPU and System itself should be stable period.

By a pass in Memtest how long did you leave it running? I would leave it on overnight if possible as any errors is a bad thing for RAM. If you end up getting errors with your RAM you will have to replace them or try setting them to a speed slower than what it's rated or loosen the timings.

It sounds a bit odd that your having issues booting up period. Not sure if your motherboard is new but I would see if a different CMOS battery improves with the BIOS/motherboard. Try to set everything to default for the BIOS. There should be a some setting in the BIOS that lets you choose PCI-E for your video output instead of automatic. Has your motherboard BIOS been updated to the most recent version?

First thing I would do when you can access the BIOS is set your RAM to 1333MHz and then try to run IBT on Very High 20 Runs to see if it can pass that. If there is anything wrong with the memory or CPU settings IBT test will probably fail.

This is totally just a thought but I feel that the freezes and continuation of the sound is due to the CPU getting loaded to 100% in game or maybe a core failing while running a program. CPUs have problem with vdroop, which is where the voltage drops from what it is set to when they are loaded heavily. Depending on how bad it is for your motherboard it could drop a little or a lot of voltage. If you are happening to play a game and voltages drop enough to be lower than what is needed the core could fail (make wrong calculation, etc) where it slows down whatever game you're playing.

In general I feel the culprit will be the RAM or CPU, whether it's a unstable setting or a hardware problem. It could be a motherboard thing also. But if the GPU fails to work properly while in game it's more common for the driver to crash/close out of the game itself instead of just freezing.

Link to IBT from OCN Forums

Spoiler

http://

 

[Newae]

wall of text

So ive taken it apart again and I'm about to reassemble it ,just to make sure I didnt miss anything, reseating the cooling aswell as adding the new RAM I bought.

Back when it was semi-working I ran 10 hours of Prime95 and actually only about an hour of Memtest so if this go my way this time I'll leave it running over night.

The motherboard is new as in purchased new, yes. And it did come with the latest bios pre-installed, I know so because it said so on the physical board itself aswell as in bios. Also since it recognizes the 860k it should be working.

I'll definetly try IBT if I get that far. I guess I'm just surprised that it even could be the CPU as I was expecting it to atleast handle the small amount of gaming that I do. Or are you saying it is/could be a faulty unit? Obviously I'm hoping it was the memory all along as its the oldest and preowned part in the build and an easy fix.

After some google'ing I found this aswell, does it have any merit in this case you think?

Spoiler

http://

 

[slyu9213]

wall of text

So ive taken it apart again and I'm about to reassemble it ,just to make sure I didnt miss anything, reseating the cooling aswell as adding the new RAM I bought.

Back when it was semi-working I ran 10 hours of Prime95 and actually only about an hour of Memtest so if this go my way this time I'll leave it running over night.

The motherboard is new as in purchased new, yes. And it did come with the latest bios pre-installed, I know so because it said so on the physical board itself aswell as in bios. Also since it recognizes the 860k it should be working.

I'll definetly try IBT if I get that far. I guess I'm just surprised that it even could be the CPU as I was expecting it to atleast handle the small amount of gaming that I do. Or are you saying it is/could be a faulty unit? Obviously I'm hoping it was the memory all along as its the oldest and preowned part in the build and an easy fix.

After some google'ing I found this aswell, does it have any merit in this case you think?

Spoiler

http://

The thread you linked might be related to the issue you are having. But as you said you have the latest BIOS installed so it might not be a BIOS related thing. If you have another PC I suggest you try running the GPU in the other and try gaming. If all your GPUs work on the other PC and not the 860K one then your problem is down to the motherboard,ram, and a tiny bit of a chance the CPU. I basically sold all the core parts in my 860K system so I can't do any checks for you anymore. Only guess what the problem is after evaluating your problems and PC symptoms

 

[Newae]

wall of text

So ive taken it apart again and I'm about to reassemble it ,just to make sure I didnt miss anything, reseating the cooling aswell as adding the new RAM I bought.

Back when it was semi-working I ran 10 hours of Prime95 and actually only about an hour of Memtest so if this go my way this time I'll leave it running over night.

The motherboard is new as in purchased new, yes. And it did come with the latest bios pre-installed, I know so because it said so on the physical board itself aswell as in bios. Also since it recognizes the 860k it should be working.

I'll definetly try IBT if I get that far. I guess I'm just surprised that it even could be the CPU as I was expecting it to atleast handle the small amount of gaming that I do. Or are you saying it is/could be a faulty unit? Obviously I'm hoping it was the memory all along as its the oldest and preowned part in the build and an easy fix.

After some google'ing I found this aswell, does it have any merit in this case you think?

Spoiler

http://

The thread you linked might be related to the issue you are having. But as you said you have the latest BIOS installed so it might not be a BIOS related thing. If you have another PC I suggest you try running the GPU in the other and try gaming. If all your GPUs work on the other PC and not the 860K one then your problem is down to the motherboard,ram, and a tiny bit of a chance the CPU. I basically sold all the core parts in my 860K system so I can't do any checks for you anymore. Only guess what the problem is after evaluating your problems and PC symptoms

Alright so I did as I said, broke it down and rebuilt it. So far no crashes although I have only played one game of LoL, it's still performing what I would consider as subpar but atleast it hasnt died yet. I bought me some new memory, went for these as they were on sale.

Asrock actually sent me a file to update bios with, a file named 2.40A, and I'm on 2.40 now so not sure if they sent me an alpha or just making sure I have the update I claimed to have. Havent tried it yet as I'm weary of fiddling around in there.

So to my point, anyone willing to help me set up my bios? It's all default now and maybe thats not optimal so thinking if I post some screens maybe you all could help me out?

 

[damric]

1) Your PSU is a very subpar model. Those CX/CXMs rarely can output rated wattage. Junker PSUs like that wreak havok for gaming rigs. That explains your freezing and crashing.

2) The Athlon 860K is tuned for high speed RAM (at least 2133MT/s to reach its potential). Far Cry also likes fast RAM, preferably 2400MT/s.

3) All CPUs will choke on a game engine sometimes and cause a minimum FPS dip when things get too intense (CPU bottleneck). You could overclock a bit to lessen that problem, but not until your PSU is replaced.

4) You should only be worried about getting your FPS to match your monitor's refresh rate. LoL players can't seem to understand that anything over 60FPS on a 60Hz monitor isn't displayed. There must be 100 threads about this here everyday. It's like a plague of misinformation.

 

[logainofhades]

Friends with 3 year old computers say they get 300+ fps with AA no issues.

Tips, trix? Grateful for any input!

For one the human eye cannot see much beyond 60fps. Two, you probably have a 60hz monitor, so 60fps is your technical max. Three, turn off V-Sync. You should see those useless pretty numbers higher than 60.

 

[Newae]

1) Your PSU is a very subpar model. Those CX/CXMs rarely can output rated wattage. Junker PSUs like that wreak havok for gaming rigs. That explains your freezing and crashing.

2) The Athlon 860K is tuned for high speed RAM (at least 2133MT/s to reach its potential). Far Cry also likes fast RAM, preferably 2400MT/s.

3) All CPUs will choke on a game engine sometimes and cause a minimum FPS dip when things get too intense (CPU bottleneck). You could overclock a bit to lessen that problem, but not until your PSU is replaced.

4) You should only be worried about getting your FPS to match your monitor's refresh rate. LoL players can't seem to understand that anything over 60FPS on a 60Hz monitor isn't displayed. There must be 100 threads about this here everyday. It's like a plague of misinformation.

Friends with 3 year old computers say they get 300+ fps with AA no issues.

Tips, trix? Grateful for any input!

For one the human eye cannot see much beyond 60fps. Two, you probably have a 60hz monitor, so 60fps is your technical max. Three, turn off V-Sync. You should see those useless pretty numbers higher than 60.

I'm really surprised, paid a fair amount for that PSU and being a Corsair I pretty much figured I was safe, guess I'll try my brother's psu. If I get a new one, what kinda wattage should I be looking for?

The new Ripjaws I got are 2133mhz so that shouldnt be the issue, yes?

Yeah, I know the CPU is what it is, and what I paid for. I don't feel the need for it to be running anything at high and above. Just need it to "work".

I did not know that had with anything to do with the monitor until resently, and thats fine. I mentioned it more as a comparison to what their old computers with lesser GPUs was producing. Aswell as the fact that it did dip to lower 50s when it was locked to 60, even without it being a big fight or anything demanding. I do appriciate the input though and I'll take it to my heart!

 

[damric]

Don't be fooled by the brand name on the sticker. Corsair doesn't use the same high quality OEM to manufacture all of its PSUs and the CX/CXMs are rather unreliable for pushing graphics cards and high CPU loads.

Catch this good Seasonic model while it's on sale:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Power Supply: XFX TS 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($38.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $38.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-16 16:59 EST-0500
Or get this modular Super Flower model for enough headroom for future upgrades:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $69.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-16 16:58 EST-0500

 

[Newae]

Don't be fooled by the brand name on the sticker. Corsair doesn't use the same high quality OEM to manufacture all of its PSUs and the CX/CXMs are rather unreliable for pushing graphics cards and high CPU loads.

Catch this good Seasonic model while it's on sale:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Power Supply: XFX TS 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($38.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $38.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-16 16:59 EST-0500
Or get this modular Super Flower model for enough headroom for future upgrades:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $69.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-16 16:58 EST-0500

Alright, I'll have a look. I turned of coolnquiet aswell as turbo and auto overclock and the system seems alot more stable now. Havent tried LoL yet and Far Cry 4 wont let me go beyond the first cinematic but that just might be the game.

That XFX and EVGA is a rough 100dollars in Sweden so I would prefer not having to get it.

 

[logainofhades]

Far Cry 4, might be the game. There have been some issues with that one. There is no reason, based on specs, that you should be getting horrible fps in LoL.

 

[Newae]

Help me out here. What part of the mobo the part i circled in red? And how bad is it as far as heat goes? Cause I would get burned if I touched that for more than a second. Could this be our perp?

http://s1.postimg.org/bko2khwjz/mobo.jpg

 

[damric]

Help me out here. What part of the mobo the part i circled in red? And how bad is it as far as heat goes? Cause I would get burned if I touched that for more than a second. Could this be our perp?

http://s1.postimg.org/bko2khwjz/mobo.jpg

Those are the chokes (inductors). I don't why, but recent ASRock boards all seem to have some hot running chokes. I put a VRM-style heatsink across mine with a fan, lol. I know what you mean, I could fry an egg on mine with my Extreme6+.

 

[Newae]

Help me out here. What part of the mobo the part i circled in red? And how bad is it as far as heat goes? Cause I would get burned if I touched that for more than a second. Could this be our perp?

http://s1.postimg.org/bko2khwjz/mobo.jpg

Those are the chokes (inductors). I don't why, but recent ASRock boards all seem to have some hot running chokes. I put a VRM-style heatsink across mine with a fan, lol. I know what you mean, I could fry an egg on mine with my Extreme6+.

And the left row are the vrms then yeh?

In any case I just ordered a MSI A88XM Gaming just now cause my reseller will take the Asrock back.

 

[damric]

Oddly enough the Extreme4+ and 6+ have twice as many VRMs, chokes, and caps as the MSI Gaming boards, but you'll see that your new board runs practically cool to the touch. I have the full size Gaming A88X, but it's nearly the same as the micro ATX.

 

[Newae]

Oddly enough the Extreme4+ and 6+ have twice as many VRMs, chokes, and caps as the MSI Gaming boards, but you'll see that your new board runs pratically cool to the touch. I have the full size Gaming A88X, but it's nearly the same as the micro ATX.

Well then! Prepare to be thoroughly questioned once I recieve it ;]