New build crashing with no blue screen

[Michael987]

Hello,

I have been having some problems with my PC in the past week. I built this PC about 4 months ago and I did not have any problems with it until now.

What is happening is that my PC just completely shuts itself down and then restarts itself. There are no blue screens or messages on the PC, it simply shuts down instantaneously and then reboots about 3-5 seconds later.

My current system specs are: http://i.imgur.com/KpUSquN.png

The PSU I use is: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0100QRVP0

I have used PCpartpicker and that shows the total wats at about 500W and since my PSU is 650W I should be fine

I do not think this is a heat related issue since the highest temps I am getting is about 50° for the cpu which is fine and about 55° for the GPU, of which I have had running before at about 75° with no issues.

I have done some google searching of this but the answers are divided, some saying PSU problems and some saying GPU problems and so on.

I have checked event viewer and the error messages I get are Kernel-Power (Telling me it did not shut down correctly which I already know) and the other error message is event ID 1101 - Audit events have been dropped by the transport. 0. When I did a search of this I found this was usually involved with the crashing, however there were many different answers that people gave that solved their issues; some of which included disabling audio drivers via Device Manager but that has not helped me.

After my latest crash (1 hour ago), I checked for any BIOS updates and have installed some new ones which have recently been released via MSI's website.

I have checked via Device Manager than there are no "!/?" next to anything which would suggest an update is needed.

My crashes do not really have any pattern, some are when Im on the internet, some on YouTube and some on different games. However, I have never gotten two crashes on the same day and are usually 2-3 days apart from each-other, no matter what I am doing.

What could be causing this problem?

Furthermore, what things can I do to try and find out which component is causing the problem ?

If there is anything else you need me to do and post let me know, thanks.

 

[Michael987]

Since hardware does not seem to be the problem, at least on the surface, I'd start with doing a CLEAN driver installation, using the latest Crimson 16.5.1 hotfix driver, and using the DDU, as follows:

http://www.tomshardware.com/faq/id-2767677/clean-graphics-driver-install-windows.html


This driver: http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Windows%2010%20-%2064


Heaven benchmark may not use the same aspects of the driver or API as any given game does, so the fact that it doesn't crash during the stress test may not indicate that drivers are not the problem. If doing a clean GPU card driver installation doesn't solve the problem, then a clean Windows installation may be the next step.

I reinstalled them last night (Clean wipe/uninstall and then reinstalled using most up to date)

However, today I also swapped my RAM out to an old stick I had lying about. I have not had a crash and I have been playing Overwatch for about 5 hours today.

I am NOT saying this is solved, however I usually crashed after 30 mins on Overwatch so this is progress.

I will keep this updated if it does crash in the next few days. If it doesnt then Im going to assume RAM was the problem and will RMA it most likely

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, that's good to hear. This is exactly why I always tell people that although Memtest86 is a good diagnostic utility, it doesn't always mean the memory is without an issue. Lot's of systems that pass Memtest but still have faulty memory.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2268884/hourly-freeze-looping-sound.html

 

[Michael987]

Its now 3 days since I removed my RAM and I have not had a crash since then and I have been doing all of the same activities on my PC, therefore I am now ruling this as a RAM issue and will be getting replacement RAM since this must be defective.

 

[Colif]

Glad you worked out what problem was.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yep, glad it didn't turn into a hunt for ghosts. Good luck Michael.

 

[Michael987]

Hello again, sorry to open up an old thread; but since this was mine I think its acceptable.

I got my new RAM the next day and no problems, until I tried Witcher 3. For whatever reason, when I use the 2 8GB sticks it crashes after about 10-15 minutes of playing. However, if I use a DIFFERENT 8GB stick (One from old PC) I can play for however long I want without crashes.

Why would the 2 8GB sticks cause crashes and a single 8GB stick not?

I thought it could be a motherboard problem or possibly a power problem but I have no idea if that is correct.

Thanks

 

[Darkbreeze]

Does the problem occur if you use only one of the 8GB sticks from the matched set? It's possible you may need to increase the DRAM voltage slightly.

I would not be surprised at all if it was the motherboard, since the PCmate boards are about the cheapest models you can find in just about every chipset family. Highly unreliable for anything beyond basic internet machines or low end office systems to be honest.

Still, that doesn't necessarily mean that the board IS the problem either. Could be, but may not be. Either way, pretty low quality board regardless. No offense meant. I know we often buy what we can afford at the time or just don't know when something has a bad reputation.

Plus, those 1866mhz sticks are not natively supported on that motherboard. The specs indicate "*" next to 1866mhz which means likely you need to overclock the CPU somewhat in order to run at that speed and may also need a slight bump in memory voltage. Other adjustments may be necessary as well. Did you set the XMP profile for the memory and is it running at the advertised speed, voltage and latency for those sticks?

Have you tried running the sticks at 1600mhz to see if they crash at that speed?

What are the specs or model number for the other 8GB stick that does not cause the game to crash?

 

[Michael987]

Does the problem occur if you use only one of the 8GB sticks from the matched set? It's possible you may need to increase the DRAM voltage slightly.

I would not be surprised at all if it was the motherboard, since the PCmate boards are about the cheapest models you can find in just about every chipset family. Highly unreliable for anything beyond basic internet machines or low end office systems to be honest.

Still, that doesn't necessarily mean that the board IS the problem either. Could be, but may not be. Either way, pretty low quality board regardless. No offense meant. I know we often buy what we can afford at the time or just don't know when something has a bad reputation.

Plus, those 1866mhz sticks are not natively supported on that motherboard. The specs indicate "*" next to 1866mhz which means likely you need to overclock the CPU somewhat in order to run at that speed and may also need a slight bump in memory voltage. Other adjustments may be necessary as well. Did you set the XMP profile for the memory and is it running at the advertised speed, voltage and latency for those sticks?

Have you tried running the sticks at 1600mhz to see if they crash at that speed?

What are the specs or model number for the other 8GB stick that does not cause the game to crash?

I have not tried a single stick from the 2 RAM sticks in yet, will be trying that later on today when I get the chance and will report back. I have also just tried them in 2 specific slots and since I have 4 I may try them in the other two to see if anything happens then.

Motherboard was from a family member as a Christmas present so I was not that one to choose that unfortunately.

Im assuming to overclock and increase memory voltage that is done in the BIOS?

I have no idea what an XMP profile is and I am assuming it is running at the advertised speed as I have it in dual channel and it shows half of the MHz which would indicate it is running normally.

I dont know how to change the speed to 1600mhz.

The 8GB stick I am using is from about 4-5 years ago, I have no idea what brand it would be and speccy shows this:

"8.00GB Single-Channel DDR3 @ 799MHz (11-11-11-28)"

I may contact MSI since thats who the motherboard is produced by and see if they have anything to say about this also at a later point.

 

[Darkbreeze]

On your board, for proper dual channel operation using 2 DIMMs, the modules should be installed in DIMM 2 and DIMM 4 slots. These are the second and fourth slots from the CPU as seen below.

XMP profile: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memory-scaling-on-haswell/2


How to configure RAM speeds and XMP profile. While I don't particularly like Jay twoshits, this might be the easiest method of explaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTWEzTV8B54

 

[Michael987]

Hi again, I havent changed anything since the last time as I was just happy with getting no crashes to be honest and being able to try and complete Witcher 3. However, when I was playing it today my PC crashed again and since I am still using the single 8GB stick that stopped the crashes before, I dont even know what the problem is now since I have changed nothing in the way I play/setup the system and it has resulted in another crash.

Im beginning to think this could be a motherboard problem but I honestly have no idea as I havent had any crashes since I switched the RAM out to the single 8GB stick.

(in regards to Darkbreeze post about dual channel I was using the DIMM 2/4 slots for the 2 sticks of 8GB; however like I said at the start I have not done an XMP profile yet as I was just happy with no crashes, but now as I am getting them again I think I will need to change something either software/hardware wise)

 

[Darkbreeze]

Can you post the crash dump files to a free online site and give us a link?

 

[Michael987]

Can you post the crash dump files to a free online site and give us a link?

Which files would you be referring to here?

If you mean event viewer stuff then there is nothing there except Kernel-Power telling me it shutdown unexpectedly and another one saying Audit events have been dropped by the transport. 0 Code 1101

If you are on about other files, please tell me where to locate them and I will upload them

 

[Darkbreeze]

How to post crash dumps: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/locate-dump-files/a6ad18df-70a8-4c53-8596-797b63bd35e7?auth=1

 

[Michael987]

How to post crash dumps: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/locate-dump-files/a6ad18df-70a8-4c53-8596-797b63bd35e7?auth=1

I do not have any dump files either on my SSD or HDD (SSD is C:\) and when I search %SystemRoot%\MEMORY.DMP which is what was displayed after navigating through the System part, the folder does not exists so Im assuming there are no dumps.

I have no blue screens as it mentions in the first post as the computer just turns itself off and restarts itself.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Instantaneous power loss with no save to crash dumps is generally either a motherboard or power supply issue. Since the problem is now happening even with completely different RAM installed, I'd say it's probably the board but that's just a guess at this point.

You have a high quality power supply, but a low quality motherboard. I'd suspect the motherboard first, power supply second.

 

[Michael987]

Instantaneous power loss with no save to crash dumps is generally either a motherboard or power supply issue. Since the problem is now happening even with completely different RAM installed, I'd say it's probably the board but that's just a guess at this point.

You have a high quality power supply, but a low quality motherboard. I'd suspect the motherboard first, power supply second.

Thanks for the info, I think im going to contact MSI since thats who produced the board and ask them what they might think or at least try and get some information from them.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Good idea. Might start by telling them you need to initiate an RMA, even if you don't end up using it.

 

[maikutech]

Instantaneous power loss with no save to crash dumps is generally either a motherboard or power supply issue. Since the problem is now happening even with completely different RAM installed, I'd say it's probably the board but that's just a guess at this point.

You have a high quality power supply, but a low quality motherboard. I'd suspect the motherboard first, power supply second.

What he could do while contacting msi technical support is test one memory in one slot at a time.
If the problem isn't narrowed to a specific slot, his mobo maybe having IRQ conflicts on the mobo based on his descriptions.
Meaning the board is becoming unstable, I haven't experienced that type of problem in a long time since being on the socket 478 and lga 775 platform.

A good friend of mine told me about the samething last week, he said it could be playing musical chairs till you get it to work for a time.

https://us.msi.com/about/contact-us

 

[Darkbreeze]

It certainly couldn't hurt, and may help, but when the original memory and an entirely different module don't work, it makes it unlikely to be memory. It does not however entirely rule it out, so it might be worth a try.

 

[Michael987]

Im currently in contact with MSI support, however most of what they are saying is things I have already tried here so that isnt very helpful.

I may end up just linking them to this thread for what I have done.

Ive been looking at lots of internet threads about other peoples crashes and there was a large amount of them which were resolved when a different/better PSU was used, so since I have a spare one in my old PC I may end up trying it (However it is the same wattage and also has a much worse reputation so I dont think it classes as better or a more powerful PSU)

 

[Darkbreeze]

It's going to be awfully hard to find a better PSU than that G2, if that's what you have. Of course, that doesn't mean something can't be wrong with it, but without looking at your sensor readings we can't even begin to know that. Download and install HWinfo (NOT HWmonitor or another utility), run "sensors only", then run Prime95 or something that heavily stresses/taxes the PSU, whatever you normally do that puts the GPU card or CPU to high usage, and take screenshots of the system voltage readings like I posted up above earlier in the thread.

 

[Michael987]

It's going to be awfully hard to find a better PSU than that G2, if that's what you have. Of course, that doesn't mean something can't be wrong with it, but without looking at your sensor readings we can't even begin to know that. Download and install HWinfo (NOT HWmonitor or another utility), run "sensors only", then run Prime95 or something that heavily stresses/taxes the PSU, whatever you normally do that puts the GPU card or CPU to high usage, and take screenshots of the system voltage readings like I posted up above earlier in the thread.

The problem right now is that it crashes/reboots at a random time; for example sometimes its during games but other it can just been when watching Youtube or opening a reddit thread for example. I have no way of re-producing the crash otherwise I could then find out what sets off the crash, but right now it can happen at any time it wants really.

After some discussion with the MSI support they now want me to change the battery on the Motherboard. I didn't even know they had batteries.

Other than that they have just told me to contact where I bought it (Amazon) and if they cant help I will need to contact an MSI office to try and get a replacement/refund.

I checked the voltages from my BIOS this time since they should be the most accurate; here is what was displayed.

3.3V - 3.264V

5V - 5.000V

12V - 12.144V

DRAM - 1.472V

 

[Darkbreeze]

CMOS battery.

I seriously doubt given the relatively young age of your system that the CMOS battery is in need of replacement, unless MSI has been using old stock to outfit their low end boards, which wouldn't really surprise me given the low quality control they are known for.

Your PSU voltages in the BIOS look ok, but that doesn't mean they'll look like that under a stress test load or under gaming conditions. Often a unit will show it's faults during those types of high duty cycle loads. That doesn't mean the behavior is limited to only those occasions either, just that they will usually show up fairly quickly when under load.

 

[Michael987]

CMOS battery.

I seriously doubt given the relatively young age of your system that the CMOS battery is in need of replacement, unless MSI has been using old stock to outfit their low end boards, which wouldn't really surprise me given the low quality control they are known for.

Your PSU voltages in the BIOS look ok, but that doesn't mean they'll look like that under a stress test load or under gaming conditions. Often a unit will show it's faults during those types of high duty cycle loads. That doesn't mean the behavior is limited to only those occasions either, just that they will usually show up fairly quickly when under load.

Well its 5am for me right now, so I will play some games tomorrow whilst having HWinfo open and screenshot the voltages at different times of play E.g. First load, 30 mins, 1 hour to see if there is any changes after a longer load

 

[Darkbreeze]

Having a plan is good.