[SOLVED] NEW Build for Topcon Magnet Site

[brad.mills212121]

I am planning on building a new computer to run Topcon's Magnet Site program for use in the construction field. The requirements posted online are pretty minimal and I don't trust their accuracy. Here is what is shown online:

Operating System - Microsoft Windows 7, & Windows 8. Installation files are uniquely available for both 32 bit and 64 bit systems.
Processor Speed - 2GHz Core2 processor or higher
RAM - 2GB RAM
Memory - Local hard drive space of 512 MB minimum (1.0GB or higher recommended)
Ports - USB2 port for USB key
Computer Resolution - 1280x1024 display resolution

I am running a DELL desktop right now with windows 10 64-bit, intel i5-3550 cpu @ 3.30 GHz, and 8 GB of RAM and the program runs fine until I load a PDF and start to bring multiple layers into the workstation. I would like to upgrade to a new PC that can handle this.

I would like to keep the price under $1000 but am willing to spend $1200 if needed. Can anyone help with potential builds around this price?

 

[kanewolf]

Do you want to stay desktop, or are you asking about a laptop?

 

[brad.mills212121]

Do you want to stay desktop, or are you asking about a laptop?

Desktop, I guess the budget is $1500 but I would like to include monitor(s) in that budget and a mouse as well. I have an idea for the mouse but not monitors

 

[kanewolf]

Can you give me an estimate on how large the datasets you are working with are (file size GB)? I think your problem is going to be storage and RAM. CPU and GPU are going to be less important (I think).

I would start somewhere like this

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600 3.1 GHz 6-Core Processor ($245.44 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B360 AORUS Gaming 3 WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 7K4000 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.88 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case ($94.05 @ Newegg Business)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($98.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Dell - U2715H 27.0" 2560x1440 60 Hz Monitor ($401.90 @ Amazon)
Total: $1882.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-25 12:51 EST-0500

Here is my reasoning... i5 = 6 fast cores. You shouldn't be CPU limited but it is a lower cost than an i7. 32GB RAM. Large data sets, can't have too much RAM. Large M.2 SSD. Same reasoning as RAM. 4TB spinning disk for backups and archive. Quadro card. Drivers are optimized for workstation applications. Case is classy looking and power supply is the most important foundation for the build. I have a preference for the Dell "U" monitors. 27 inch 1440p monitor should give you lots of display real estate.

 

[brad.mills212121]

Can you give me an estimate on how large the datasets you are working with are (file size GB)? I think your problem is going to be storage and RAM. CPU and GPU are going to be less important (I think).

I would start somewhere like this

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600 3.1 GHz 6-Core Processor ($245.44 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B360 AORUS Gaming 3 WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi - Ultrastar 7K4000 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.88 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case ($94.05 @ Newegg Business)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($98.89 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Dell - U2715H 27.0" 2560x1440 60 Hz Monitor ($401.90 @ Amazon)
Total: $1882.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-25 12:51 EST-0500

Here is my reasoning... i5 = 6 fast cores. You shouldn't be CPU limited but it is a lower cost than an i7. 32GB RAM. Large data sets, can't have too much RAM. Large M.2 SSD. Same reasoning as RAM. 4TB spinning disk for backups and archive. Quadro card. Drivers are optimized for workstation applications. Case is classy looking and power supply is the most important foundation for the build. I have a preference for the Dell "U" monitors. 27 inch 1440p monitor should give you lots of display real estate.

Oops! didn't mean to downvote your answer, sorry. I do appreciate your response, I took some of what you sent and combined it with a build I have been working on. This is what I've come up with so far:

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4cp7J8
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4cp7J8/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.79 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.89 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($183.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($189.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: NZXT - Source 210 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($124.79 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1455.32
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-25 16:56 EST-0500

I wasn't too sure on the motherboard so I just went with the ASUS Z390, I chose to just stick with the SSD for now, I'm sure we can get a HDD later once we need storage space. I did some more research and I agree with having 32GB of memory and a quadro graphics card. Is that PNY graphics card NVidia made? I know that NVidia works well with intel and would like to keep that. I did like the case you suggested, it does look very nice, but was worried about airflow on hot/cpu intensive days. I also decided not to go with a monitor just yet, there are a couple here at the shop I can use and maybe upgrade in the future.

Do you have any suggestions with this layout?

 

[logainofhades]

Something with far superior multitasking ability, if that is important to you.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($259.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($36.35 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($135.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ B&H)
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($124.89 @ My Choice Software)
Total: $1458.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-25 17:19 EST-0500

 

[kanewolf]

The K CPU with the Z motherboard is fine. I didn't know if overclocking was important. If not, then you can save $$$ with using the non-K and B360 motherboard.
The CM 212 has been a go-to cooler for forever. But it has been bested by many. You might want to look at an alternative there, especially with the choice of the K CPU and Z motherboard. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html

 

[brad.mills212121]

Something with far superior multitasking ability, if that is important to you.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($259.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($36.35 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($135.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ B&H)
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($124.89 @ My Choice Software)
Total: $1458.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-25 17:19 EST-0500

Thanks for the suggestion logainofhades. Is the main component that makes this build much more superior, the 8 core processor? What are your guys opinions on Intel vs. AMD for workstation computers? Does AMD reign king most of the time? Also, on the Fractal Design Case, do you think there is enough ventilation? It looks pretty closed off and not too much room for extra fans.

 

[brad.mills212121]

The K CPU with the Z motherboard is fine. I didn't know if overclocking was important. If not, then you can save $$$ with using the non-K and B360 motherboard.
The CM 212 has been a go-to cooler for forever. But it has been bested by many. You might want to look at an alternative there, especially with the choice of the K CPU and Z motherboard. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-cpu-coolers,4181.html

No overclocking isn't important so I'll probably go with the non-K and B360 motherboard to save that extra dollar if I don't end up switching to the AMD build.

 

[logainofhades]

That fractal case isn't closed off.

[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=19&v=AzNGJohj5vY"][/video]

 

[brad.mills212121]

That fractal case isn't closed off.

[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=19&v=AzNGJohj5vY"][/video]

Oh sorry, I though it was the same as the other case. What about the processor questions from the last post?

 

[logainofhades]

For multitasking, AMD is king, price/performance wise. It is totally a per user case scenario though. The 2700 is an 8 core/16 thread cpu. The i5 8600 is a 6c/6t, so less resources available for multitasking. If your software is maxing out the 4 cores, of your current i5, then the Ryzen is probably the way to go. If it is not, then Intel's superior single threaded performance is better. You do get an upgrade path, to the 3000 series CPU's, with AMD. I doubt Intel will let current socket/chipsets live on for next gen.

 

[kanewolf]

Something with far superior multitasking ability, if that is important to you.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700 3.2 GHz 8-Core Processor ($259.89 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($36.35 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - X470 AORUS ULTRA GAMING ATX AM4 Motherboard ($135.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($189.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ B&H)
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.89 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($124.89 @ My Choice Software)
Total: $1458.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-25 17:19 EST-0500

Thanks for the suggestion logainofhades. Is the main component that makes this build much more superior, the 8 core processor? What are your guys opinions on Intel vs. AMD for workstation computers? Does AMD reign king most of the time? Also, on the Fractal Design Case, do you think there is enough ventilation? It looks pretty closed off and not too much room for extra fans.

Many software packages, especially "professional" packages are optimized for Intel CPUs. It it was me, I would stick with the Intel. You get two more cores and hyperthreading with the AMD. It might improve multi-tasking.

 

[brad.mills212121]

So I have decided to stay with Intel for compatibility with Windows 10 Pro. This is the build I have chosen. Thanks for the help guys!

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3vLDsZ
Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3vLDsZ/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel - Core i5-8600K 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.79 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - PURE ROCK 51.7 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($35.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - B360 AORUS Gaming 3 WIFI ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-2666 Memory ($218.78 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($247.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P1000 4 GB Video Card ($314.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: Fractal Design - Arc Midi ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.50 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($124.79 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1471.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-28 16:27 EST-0500

 

[logainofhades]

Windows 10 pro is compatible with AMD too. The compatibility comment above was in regards to professional software/apps, not the OS. Either way, massive upgrade, over what you have.

 

[kanewolf]

Yeah, unless you have a Windows domain that the workstation will join, you will probably get no benefit out of Windows PRO vs Windows HOME.

 

[brad.mills212121]

Windows 10 pro is compatible with AMD too. The compatibility comment above was in regards to professional software/apps, not the OS. Either way, massive upgrade, over what you have.

What types of professional software?

 

[kanewolf]

Windows 10 pro is compatible with AMD too. The compatibility comment above was in regards to professional software/apps, not the OS. Either way, massive upgrade, over what you have.

What types of professional software?

Your TopCon software. AutoCAD, ArcGIS, etc ...

 

[brad.mills212121]

Windows 10 pro is compatible with AMD too. The compatibility comment above was in regards to professional software/apps, not the OS. Either way, massive upgrade, over what you have.

What types of professional software?

Your TopCon software. AutoCAD, ArcGIS, etc ...

So Intel is more compatible with those programs? I'll probably stick with intel for that reason. I will get windows 10 home though, I guess we aren't using windows domains. Thanks for the tip

 

[kanewolf]

Not more compatible. More OPTIMIZED. They generally use Intel CPUs and compilers in the software development. The compilers use the type of CPU to enable specific optimizations.

 

[taeioum]

Excuse me gentlemen, but am I completely misunderstanding this whole thread? OP needs a computer to run an application. The application provides minimum system specs, while he already owns a PC that is much better than the system specs listed by Topcon? (It's listing decade old hardware specs, while he has a 3rd gen i5?)

I'm just concerned we're not making this man spend a ton of money while he has a system that should run the application fine, but seems to be bottlenecked somehow? Is the new PC specifically necessary? Shouldn't we be trying to debug the problem first...?

Downvote me to hell if you want to, I'm just trying to look at it a different way, is all.

 

[brad.mills212121]

Excuse me gentlemen, but am I completely misunderstanding this whole thread? OP needs a computer to run an application. The application provides minimum system specs, while he already owns a PC that is much better than the system specs listed by Topcon? (It's listing decade old hardware specs, while he has a 3rd gen i5?)

I'm just concerned we're not making this man spend a ton of money while he has a system that should run the application fine, but seems to be bottlenecked somehow? Is the new PC specifically necessary? Shouldn't we be trying to debug the problem first...?

Downvote me to hell if you want to, I'm just trying to look at it a different way, is all.

The current PC I am using is from what I have heard a "cheapo" computer they pulled out of the closet. The disk takes at least 5 mins after bootup to stop sitting at 100% and I think it's at least 5 years old which isn't bad. But with the mentality that my company is going to grow in the future and we might be using more intensive software, such as Civil 3D, I think it would be a good idea to get a new PC.

 

[taeioum]

Excuse me gentlemen, but am I completely misunderstanding this whole thread? OP needs a computer to run an application. The application provides minimum system specs, while he already owns a PC that is much better than the system specs listed by Topcon? (It's listing decade old hardware specs, while he has a 3rd gen i5?)

I'm just concerned we're not making this man spend a ton of money while he has a system that should run the application fine, but seems to be bottlenecked somehow? Is the new PC specifically necessary? Shouldn't we be trying to debug the problem first...?

Downvote me to hell if you want to, I'm just trying to look at it a different way, is all.

The current PC I am using is from what I have heard a "cheapo" computer they pulled out of the closet. The disk takes at least 5 mins after bootup to stop sitting at 100% and I think it's at least 5 years old which isn't bad. But with the mentality that my company is going to grow in the future and we might be using more intensive software, such as Civil 3D, I think it would be a good idea to get a new PC.

As I expected, it's probably hard drive related. You have a computer that should be 6 years newer than the oldest generation of the Core2 chips that Topcon mentioned in the Magnet Site requirements. Hard drives do tend to slow down, no matter what you do.

I'm dealing with a sort of similar situation at work. I'm currently in the process of replacing hard drives in laptops for SSDs to keep them going for at least another year, as there's no budget planned for this year. We know we need new laptops next year, but we don't know what the specs need to be, kind of what your situation is like.

Since you don't know if and when you're upgrading software, you don't yet know the specs you'll be needing then. I'd say it's a waste buying a full new system now, that already isn't the newest generation, and you might not need the actual upgrade for years to come. A 30 dollar solution (SSD) could possibly fix your problem now, which would allow you to figure out better new system specs for when you actually need them.

Just my two cents..

 

[kanewolf]

Excuse me gentlemen, but am I completely misunderstanding this whole thread? OP needs a computer to run an application. The application provides minimum system specs, while he already owns a PC that is much better than the system specs listed by Topcon? (It's listing decade old hardware specs, while he has a 3rd gen i5?)

I'm just concerned we're not making this man spend a ton of money while he has a system that should run the application fine, but seems to be bottlenecked somehow? Is the new PC specifically necessary? Shouldn't we be trying to debug the problem first...?

Downvote me to hell if you want to, I'm just trying to look at it a different way, is all.

If the original post had asked for help in improving existing performance, the author would have gotten much different answers. But that wasn't what was asked.

 

[taeioum]

Let's say he had no idea that his system was newer than the specs that were listed. That's all the vibe I was getting. He's going to think he needs to replace the whole thing if he thinks his current system is newer than the minimum specs.

Either way, I rest my case.