[SOLVED] NEW BUILD - Looking for sweet spot, midrange gaming, reuse of some HW

LeslieinNH

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Greetings!

I'm starting a new build after my 8-year old gaming machine croaked after multiple recent upgrades (sniff).

Here's what I'm looking at. I think I want to stay Intel, as I've personally had issues with a few AMD systems, but it's possible I could still be persuaded.

Possibly reusing case (Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX), video (hoping it didn't get damaged) - Sapphire Radeon RX580 Nitro+, SSD (and HDD), DVD-RW... and getting the following:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/FJgJNq

(for those that don't want to click link)
Intel i5-9600k
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Black Edition CPU cooler
Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X Motherboard
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8) DDR4-2400 memory
EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W 80+ Gold ATX PSU

I know there's lots of differing opinions, and I'm looking forward to hearing some! Part of my decision (looking at you, PSU) is based on availability... but I'd be patient if any of my choices are poor. Thank you!!!
 

King_V

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For 1920x1080 @ 60Hz, the 580 Nitro+ is a good choice with an excellent cooler. Buddy of mine at work has one, and is very happy with it.

I was going to maybe suggest a 650W PSU, but, yeah, what you said in your other thread is right - the 750W PSUs are so close to the 650W prices that you might as well get the 750.

However, my alternate suggestion, going the AMD route, and with a full ATX board (I wasn't sure if you needed the extra slots of a full ATX board, or would a MicroATX be suffucient?)


PCPartPicker Part List

Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($74.98 @ Amazon)
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.88 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($112.95 @ Amazon)
Custom: Ryzen 5 1600 AF 12nm stepping ($85.00)
Total: $437.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-03-11 11:09 EDT-0400



Now, this is me going with the $85 12nm version of the Ryzen 5 1600. The 2600 and 3600 are faster, but this CPU cannot be beat in terms of performance/dollar. And, uh, as my posts tend to indicate when putting together systems, I am kind of obsessive on bang/buck.

No extra cooler needed, the included one will be sufficient, though an aftermarket one can be gotten if you want to go with bigger/quieter cooling.

What are the capacities of your existing SSD/HDD?
 
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King_V

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For 1920x1080 @ 60Hz, the 580 Nitro+ is a good choice with an excellent cooler. Buddy of mine at work has one, and is very happy with it.

I was going to maybe suggest a 650W PSU, but, yeah, what you said in your other thread is right - the 750W PSUs are so close to the 650W prices that you might as well get the 750.

However, my alternate suggestion, going the AMD route, and with a full ATX board (I wasn't sure if you needed the extra slots of a full ATX board, or would a MicroATX be suffucient?)


PCPartPicker Part List

Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty B450 GAMING K4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($74.98 @ Amazon)
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.88 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($112.95 @ Amazon)
Custom: Ryzen 5 1600 AF 12nm stepping ($85.00)
Total: $437.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-03-11 11:09 EDT-0400



Now, this is me going with the $85 12nm version of the Ryzen 5 1600. The 2600 and 3600 are faster, but this CPU cannot be beat in terms of performance/dollar. And, uh, as my posts tend to indicate when putting together systems, I am kind of obsessive on bang/buck.

No extra cooler needed, the included one will be sufficient, though an aftermarket one can be gotten if you want to go with bigger/quieter cooling.

What are the capacities of your existing SSD/HDD?
 
Reactions: LeslieinNH

LeslieinNH

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I think I'm still overly biased towards Intel... but I'm seriously considering this, as it appears to be a HUGE price difference. There's no CPU/GPU integration advantage, from what I understand. I like going for bang for the buck, but I also weigh that against potential lifespan... I will pay more for something that lasts longer. Does that impact your recommendation at all? That mobo has pretty mediocre reviews - any reason you picked that specific one?

I already bought the PSU (750 Seasonic as discussed) because it was reasonable AND available (almost gone). Figured it was a safe bet.

Oops - missed your HDD/SDD question. 2TB on both. SDD is Crucial MX500. HDD is old, but I don't really use it, it's there more as a spare/backup.

Thank you yet again!
 
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King_V

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I think I'm still overly biased towards Intel... but I'm seriously considering this, as it appears to be a HUGE price difference. There's no CPU/GPU integration advantage, from what I understand. I like going for bang for the buck, but I also weigh that against potential lifespan... I will pay more for something that lasts longer. Does that impact your recommendation at all? That mobo has pretty mediocre reviews - any reason you picked that specific one?

I already bought the PSU (750 Seasonic as discussed) because it was reasonable AND available (almost gone). Figured it was a safe bet.

Oops - missed your HDD/SDD question. 2TB on both. SDD is Crucial MX500. HDD is old, but I don't really use it, it's there more as a spare/backup.

Thank you yet again!
Correct - no integrated GPU. You get that with the Athlon 200GE/220GE/240GE/3000G, the Ryzen 3 2200G and 3200G, and the Ryzen 5 2400G and 3400G. Only the latter two are worth considering, and even then, they're 4-core/8-thread chips, vs the 1600/2600/3600's 6-core/12-thread. But you've got the Nitro+, so, all's good. I admit, I do keep around an old GT 730 that was included with one of the older Dell machines I have, just as a fallback/test GPU.

Honestly, on the motherboard, because a friend of mine has one, and has been very happy with it - and, word of mouth with other friends favoring ASRock in general.

My son's is an ASRock Steel Legend, albeit the MicroATX version. Also no hiccups. The only thing I can say is that you MIGHT have to run the RAM at 3066 or 2933MHz - the CPU seems to not cooperate with 3200MHz RAM (the MB page from ASRock's website shows overclocked RAM support OVER 3200, hence why I think the CPU is the issue).

I don't really know a whole lot about motherboards, though, so I can't offer much - thus the cautious side of me leans toward "what have I, or someone I know, used personally, with success?"

As to the X470 - the question becomes: does the X470 chipset have extra features over the B450 that you feel you need? In most cases, the answer will be no, and so it's just extra money thrown away. Sort of like when my dad wanted to buy a Cadillac Catera years ago. "Why? For a bunch of options you're going to ignore anyway, Cadillac's name, and the requirement to use premium fuel with California gas prices?"

Now, if the X470 chipset DOES offer something you need, that's a different ballgame.

As for longevity, I have no reason to believe that a Ryzen platform will last any less than an Intel. MIGHT last longer only due to the fact that Intel is really pushing things with clock speed and heat production in their newer CPUs (whether that actually affects longevity for them is somewhat speculation on my part, though). I think you can go Ryzen with absolute confidence.
 

LeslieinNH

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Okay, I'm getting there, I promise! I've already ordered case and power supply. Now down to mobo, CPU, (and RAM).

Pouring over specs and release dates, it sounds like the Ryzen 5 3600 is the sweet spot now, in 2020? (Wrong?) No integrated graphics kind of stinks, even though I only use it for testing, and I do have a spare Radeon 6870 for testing, I suppose...

The use of the X470 was to avoid BIOS issues - apparently many of the B450's won't work out of the box, and since I don't have an older AMD chip to get through the BIOS upgrade, how would I handle that? Plus overall performance is supposed to be better, and these boards aren't THAT much more expensive...

My AMD build right now looks like:

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Total 394.96

Intel Build looks like:

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Difference of just over $100, and $45 of that is cooler, and then factor in the integrated graphics difference. I don't plan on overclocking (although I won't rule it out - sometimes it's fun to play) - do I really not need a different cooler other than the stock one that comes with the 3600?

The price point of the 1600 is very attractive, but since I don't upgrade often, I'm thinking going with something a bit newer might be better. Along with the fact that I know my teens are going to want to play on this box, too, and they play system intensive games.

And of course, which motherboard is still up in the air - still researching them. The BIOS issue would definitely worry me - I wouldn't have a path forward if I encounter that issue, so... could possibly go with the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max - folks reporting it works with 3600 out of the box...

Sorry to be full of so many questions!
 
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King_V

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The non-X versions of the Ryzen CPUs aren't really made with overclocking in mind. The 3000 series overall doesn't boost much over its stated boost specs, if at all, anyway. Basically, at least on the AMD side, Ryzens's getting the most they can out of it right out of the box (and without voiding the warranty), so overclocking is sort of becoming passé on those.

Yeah, some of the B450 boards still don't have the updated BIOS, but if the stores (or the box) say Ryzen 3000 ready, then I believe you should be good to go. Of course, I was going with the 1600, hence, there was no BIOS update issue.

But, for mid-range gaming (again, my bang/buck instinct is overdeveloped!), the 3600 maybe gives you, in real world, possibly 15% more performance, give or take? I can't justify a 100% price increase for that. (also, then you don't have to worry about BIOS support already being there for the 3000 series or not).

Don't get me wrong, I like the advances they made for the 3000 series Ryzens - I just can't turn down the 10-15% less performance for 50% less money aspect of the 12nm 1600 (aka the 1600 AF).

Note: The 12nm 1600 performs a little better than the original 14nm 1600. The 12nm 1600 is really more like a slightly downclocked 2600.


The included cooler is good, well up to the task of cooling the 1600/2600/3600 at their 65w TDP ratings (and AMD still uses the older way of calculating, not the new way Intel started of measuring at base speed). I say maybe assume you'll need an aftermarket cooler if the noise is noticeable and problematic. Unlikely to be a problem, though everyone's ears have slightly different sensitivity.
 

LeslieinNH

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Hmmm, hmmm... much food for thought. Challenging decisions!

I've read that "3000-series ready" means they can get a BIOS update - you need to dig into the model to determine if you can plug and play without an older AMD CPU kicking around. TOMAHAWK MAX works out of the box, for example, but ASUS X470 doesn't... They'll "send you a care package" with an old CPU hahaha

I'm weighing that out now - maybe I'll go with the older processor now, but make sure I have a newer mobo... so many tough choices!

Thank you again!
 

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