[SOLVED] New Build! Wanting to do some overclocking!

Yapsonark

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Apr 23, 2015
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My biggest concern before I start putting pieces together is... How viable is this build for Overclocking?

Keep in mind the GTX 1080 is temporary until I can purchase possibly a 2080TI

Will the 650W be ok to handle it no problem? PCPartPicker says the final draw is like 470W

Any tips or opinions with what you see here is greatly appreciated!! Thanks!

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | Purchased For $0.00
CPU Cooler | Corsair iCUE H115i RGB Pro XT 63 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler | Purchased For $0.00
Motherboard | Gigabyte X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard |-
Memory | G.Skill Flare X 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3200 CL14 Memory | Purchased For $0.00
Storage | Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | Purchased For $0.00
Video Card | EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB FTW Gaming ACX 3.0 Video Card | Purchased For $0.00
Case | Cooler Master Storm Stryker (White) ATX Full Tower Case | Purchased For $0.00
Power Supply | Corsair RM (2019) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | Purchased For $0.00
Monitor | Asus PG279Q ROG Swift 27.0" 2560x1440 165 Hz Monitor | Purchased For $0.00
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | $0.00
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-06-02 22:21 EDT-0400 |
 

Karadjgne

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Ambassador
On a Ryzen, 3600/16 holds a slight advantage over 3200/14. On an intel, they don't use ram the same way, so the gap in between is insignificant. Back in the day, 1866/10 was a hair faster than 1600/9, but sticks like the Dominators at 1600/7 were faster still, Cas being the desisive factor. Since then, Cas has not been as much of a factor as cpus are themselves so fast that it takes a benchmark or calculator to see any difference. SSDs just made that less important, nobody counts partial seconds.

With Amd and infinity fabric, it's more about the speed of the ram than the Cas, because it's the speed that sets the communication speeds. 3200/14 was important because that was Samsung B-die, which was the most stable and most compatible and could reach xmp speeds with little to no difficulty. 3200/16 was A or D or E or Z-die or anything from SkHynix or Micron etc and then you could run into issues from total incompatibility, refusal of boot, stuck at 2133 or often not reach past 2933MHz.

Agesa fixed almost all of that in time. Realistically there's little difference now other than some OC ability or with some highly ram sensitive software getting better results. But for gaming, might as well be the same thing.
 
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Yapsonark

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Apr 23, 2015
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You're PSU is "good enough" for what you have.

Steps for overclocking your system:
Step 1: Enable PBO.

I'd look at some 3600mhz RAM. You could probably get the RAM you have listed working at 3600mhz cl16, though.
What if I decide to upgrade my system video card to 2080TI will the 650W still work?

why 3600mhz ram?
I chose 3200mhz for the lower timing CL 14 would give based off a chart I have.

if I went to 3600mhz I’d have to get it with CL14 to stay positive on the chart

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ePJLHhrAUMZFBnc05TLUZMYzg/view
 

Yapsonark

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Apr 23, 2015
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Or better yet, set PBO level 1, adds 200MHz and ups the power limits. That allows the Ryzen to still control itself and regulate its own voltages and current usage, something OC does not allow.
Ah that’s interesting

I’m using this table to choose ram
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ePJLHhrAUMZFBnc05TLUZMYzg/view

Unless I find 3600 at 14CL I’d rather keep the 3200 14CL if I can. I’ll certainly try your recommendation.

If something goes wrong over locking the ram like that, would I know right away? Or could it take a few months before it shows up
 

Karadjgne

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Heh, that table only works for Intels. Ryzen uses Infinity Fabric to communicate between the chiplets and cores. That setting is based on the data rate of the ram. Your cores with 3200MHz will be talking back and forth at a 1600MHz rate. With 3600MHz, the cores talk at 1800MHz. It's like loosing 1% performance for the drop in timings, but gaining a 3% boost from faster communication.

It's the reason why just about everyone is spouting about Ryzens loving faster ram. But the caveat is the IF limitations, with 2k series, the IF was capped at 3466MHz, after which it was no longer a 1:1 ratio, but a 2:1 ratio, so 3600MHz was reduced to a 900MHz communication, while 3200MHz was the sweet spot at 1600MHz. With 3k series, that limit was raised to 3733MHz, making 3600MHz the sweet spot.

This can be overcome by manually disengaging the IF from the rate, but unless you are comfortable with manual manipulation of fclock, uclock and mclock, and the bios actually allows for such, I'd not suggest trying.
 

Yapsonark

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Apr 23, 2015
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Heh, that table only works for Intels. Ryzen uses Infinity Fabric to communicate between the chiplets and cores. That setting is based on the data rate of the ram. Your cores with 3200MHz will be talking back and forth at a 1600MHz rate. With 3600MHz, the cores talk at 1800MHz. It's like loosing 1% performance for the drop in timings, but gaining a 3% boost from faster communication.

It's the reason why just about everyone is spouting about Ryzens loving faster ram. But the caveat is the IF limitations, with 2k series, the IF was capped at 3466MHz, after which it was no longer a 1:1 ratio, but a 2:1 ratio, so 3600MHz was reduced to a 900MHz communication, while 3200MHz was the sweet spot at 1600MHz. With 3k series, that limit was raised to 3733MHz, making 3600MHz the sweet spot.

This can be overcome by manually disengaging the IF from the rate, but unless you are comfortable with manual manipulation of fclock, uclock and mclock, and the bios actually allows for such, I'd not suggest trying.
Ok so that table is only valid for intel cpu
I tried my best to understand what you said. I'm guessing 3600 is the sweet spot with 3k and when you say 3k you mean the 3900x? cause its 3k gen i think? (first time hearing that term, First AMD build)

I'll avoid the Manual Manipulation like you said. I'd prefer stable as possible and want to get into overclocking


Should I jump up to 3600? and does CL matter with AMD?

In your opinion whats better
-3200 CL 14
or
-3600 CL 16
or
-third option I don't know but hope you could provide
I recognize the 1:1 to 2:1 ratio and that I'd want to stay in 1:1

Also best option that wouldn't be more then $300-$450 and 450 is kinda pushing it

with Ryzen 3900x
Gigabyte X570 AORUS PRO WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard

Thanks so much for your help!! I really appreciate it!
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
On a Ryzen, 3600/16 holds a slight advantage over 3200/14. On an intel, they don't use ram the same way, so the gap in between is insignificant. Back in the day, 1866/10 was a hair faster than 1600/9, but sticks like the Dominators at 1600/7 were faster still, Cas being the desisive factor. Since then, Cas has not been as much of a factor as cpus are themselves so fast that it takes a benchmark or calculator to see any difference. SSDs just made that less important, nobody counts partial seconds.

With Amd and infinity fabric, it's more about the speed of the ram than the Cas, because it's the speed that sets the communication speeds. 3200/14 was important because that was Samsung B-die, which was the most stable and most compatible and could reach xmp speeds with little to no difficulty. 3200/16 was A or D or E or Z-die or anything from SkHynix or Micron etc and then you could run into issues from total incompatibility, refusal of boot, stuck at 2133 or often not reach past 2933MHz.

Agesa fixed almost all of that in time. Realistically there's little difference now other than some OC ability or with some highly ram sensitive software getting better results. But for gaming, might as well be the same thing.
 
Reactions: Yapsonark

Yapsonark

Honorable
Apr 23, 2015
87
1
10,645
1
On a Ryzen, 3600/16 holds a slight advantage over 3200/14. On an intel, they don't use ram the same way, so the gap in between is insignificant. Back in the day, 1866/10 was a hair faster than 1600/9, but sticks like the Dominators at 1600/7 were faster still, Cas being the desisive factor. Since then, Cas has not been as much of a factor as cpus are themselves so fast that it takes a benchmark or calculator to see any difference. SSDs just made that less important, nobody counts partial seconds.

With Amd and infinity fabric, it's more about the speed of the ram than the Cas, because it's the speed that sets the communication speeds. 3200/14 was important because that was Samsung B-die, which was the most stable and most compatible and could reach xmp speeds with little to no difficulty. 3200/16 was A or D or E or Z-die or anything from SkHynix or Micron etc and then you could run into issues from total incompatibility, refusal of boot, stuck at 2133 or often not reach past 2933MHz.

Agesa fixed almost all of that in time. Realistically there's little difference now other than some OC ability or with some highly ram sensitive software getting better results. But for gaming, might as well be the same thing.

Thanks so much! I'll make good use of this info.

Some final questions I hope you can help me with. I checked with Memory Express
and was looking for products currently available in Winnipeg.

Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3600MHz CL16 Dual Channel Kit (2 x 16GB) (Perfer these but out of stock)
Trident Z NEO Series 32GB DDR4 3600MHz CL16 Dual Channel Kit (2x 16GB)

and even a 64GB

Ripjaws V Series 64GB DDR4 3600MHz CL18 Dual Channel Kit (2 x 32GB)
(First time going up from 16GB and i like multitasking/ lots of browser tabs so 64 is a bit tempting.)

If I'm understanding you correctly CL isn't a huge factor in my situation so all 3 of these are viable whether its CL16-CL18?

Is there a brand I should avoid or one I should try to get?

The memory is my last concern with this build and i'm done the search!

Thanks!
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Ambassador
16 is still better than 18 lol, have to balance Cas against speed. A 3200/16 is slower than 3600/16, by a decent margin. 3200/14 closes that gap, 3200/18 widens it back up a little.
It's not a huge factor, but it's still a factor.
The Neo's are built for Ryzen, as is any of the Trident's that have a serial code ending in X, like GTZRX. The GTZR are better suited for Intel.
 

Yapsonark

Honorable
Apr 23, 2015
87
1
10,645
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16 is still better than 18 lol, have to balance Cas against speed. A 3200/16 is slower than 3600/16, by a decent margin. 3200/14 closes that gap, 3200/18 widens it back up a little.
It's not a huge factor, but it's still a factor.
The Neo's are built for Ryzen, as is any of the Trident's that have a serial code ending in X, like GTZRX. The GTZR are better suited for Intel.
I hope its ok to ask one more question. You're just a wellspring of information lol

Those Neos look really nice and looks like RGB which i'm trying to get into.

Memory Express has 5 options for the Trident Neo memory

https://www.memoryexpress.com/Category/Memory?Search=neo

2x 8GB CL16
2x 16GB CL16
2x 32GB CL16
2x 32GB CL18
4x 32GB CL 16
all Dual Channel Ram Kits

So if i wanted to fill all slots I need a 4x kit right? I can't do 2 2x kits could I?
Also i'm guessing mixing a 2x16 and a 2x32 to make 4 is a no no
 

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