new computer for modeling and rendering

Shaggyhardware

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i am looking for a PC for work modeling in autocad and revit, and rendering in Vray for 3dsmax, speed on rendering is very important to me, I also process big files in photoshop for my hobbie Photography.
 

Shaggyhardware

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Hi guys DonkeyOatie, Brillis Wuce and thanks a lot for your quick answers, my budget is 1500 - 2000 $ us. And I need a windows 8.1 operative system, but nothing else (no peripherals) only the cpu, and something that may be important is that I WILL NOT use it for gaming at all. autocad and 3ds max modeling and rendering on Vray is the priority.
 

Brillis Wuce

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Build is as follows...

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor ($369.88 @ OutletPC)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-X99-UD3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard ($193.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($377.27 @ TigerDirect)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($118.98 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($71.88 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($71.88 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: PNY Quadro K2200 4GB Video Card ($402.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT H440 (Black/Red) ATX Mid Tower Case ($115.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($104.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($87.75 @ OutletPC)
Total: $1945.57
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-02-25 12:08 EST-0500

The 5820K's 6 cores will blow through any Autocad programming or rendering you can throw at it.

Gigabyte creates motherboards that last incredibly long.

32GB of DDR4 will ensure no slowdown comes from lack of RAM space.

Samsungs 250GB SSD to keep your OS and main applications quick and efficient.

4 TB of HDD's for long term storage.

Quadro K2200 GPU for accurate floating point precision and 3D rendering.
 

Shaggyhardware

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Feb 17, 2015
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Thanks Brillis Wuce, looks amazing, I was toying with these configuration and changed the 2 hard drives, instead of two hdd of 2TB I will get just one of 1TB, I think is ok since I have a WD my book cloud at home, but i will buy the ssd for the ios for sure. I was wondering if the cpu cooler is enough, a friend was talking with me about the water coolers and it was interesting but I know that my friend talks more that he actually knows, please help me, ahh and please about this video card that, (gigabyte gv-n9701XOC-4GD GeForce GTX 970 4GB 256 bits GDDR5 PCI express 3.0 HDCP) what is your opinion, can this work well, is good, bad, compatible?, if the diference is not huge i will like to buy it because is less expensive.
I have notice that there are no optical drives on this configuration, and seems like the case does not support one, a lot of my software is on cds and dvds. Are dvds and cds getting obsolete? is these a new trend, or i can get one. please let me know, and sorry, you can tell I don't know enough of these topics.



 

Brillis Wuce

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If you're going to overclock your CPU, then water cooling would be a good idea. If not, its complete overkill.

As far as your video card, here's a quick breakdown...

Quadro cards are meant for 3D rendering and CAD programs. This is because they have higher floating point precision, which results in more accurate representation onscreen. When you compare that to something like the GTX 970, there's a big difference. The 970 is meant to produce high frame rates in gaming, so it dumbs down the floating point calculations. This is why the Quadro cards can go upwards of $5000.

Quadro - CAD/3D
GTX - Gaming

As far as your optical drive, yes they are obsolete, and your case doesn't support it, but externals are very cheap and will work fine.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135256&cm_re=external_dvd-_-27-135-256-_-Product
 

Shaggyhardware

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Feb 17, 2015
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Thanks a lot Brillis Wuce your the best !!!



 

mdocod

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The viewport and modeling functions of AutoCAD and revit, like pretty much all CAD and 3D modeling software, are very lightly threaded. A 6 core CPU is actually a waste for modeling and design. The i7-4790K costs less and would perform better, and the E3-1231V3 costs less and performs about the same while bringing ECC memory support to the table.

Whether or not SHaggy would benefit from a many-core CPU depends on what output render settings he/she wants to use in vray. Vray supports CUDA accelerated rendering, and when using it, the CPU is not a major factor in export performance.

Quadro K2200 GPU for accurate floating point precision and 3D rendering.

Revit, AutoCad, and 3DSMax use DirectX viewports. They do not take advantage of any of the advanced openGL driver optimizations or compute precision that you get with a workstation GPU. The K2200 is a complete waste for these programs, especially for someone using a GPU accelerated export renderer. A similarly priced GTX970 will be substantially faster for all operations from viewport to export rendering in the software that SHaggy has listed.

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liquid heatpipes are superior to pumped liquid cooling for almost all practical applications, even overclocking withing practical ranges. A Pumped liquid cooler does not begin to out-perform a liquid heatpipe cooler until the effective size of the radiator is larger than could ever be strapped to a CPU socket. For the most part, all AIOCLC's are overpriced gimicks with a laundry list of down-sides (more noise, vibration, more failure modes, surface to surface seals that can leak, no passive cooling capacity etc).

As far as your video card, here's a quick breakdown...

Quadro cards are meant for 3D rendering and CAD programs.

The primary advantage of a quadro card in CAD, is the advanced openGL support and optimizations. Hardware wise, the K2200 is a GTX750Ti, nothing more nothing less. Flagship quadros often have ECC VRAM and higher double precision math performance than their GeForce brethren, these features do not bring anything useful to openGL CAD view-ports, and the K2200 does not have these features enabled anyway.

GeForce cards, are in fact, the industry standard used for export rendering with gpu accelerated renderers like vray, iray, furyball, and octane. In some cost-no-object implementations, Titans and K6000's are used in place of GeForce for the large VRAM buffers, but at this budget there's no reason to entertain that sort of specialized use scenario.


This is because they have higher floating point precision, which results in more accurate representation onscreen.
The K2200 does not have any advantage in FP precision or throughput over a GTX750Ti. Some Quadro cards do, this one doesn't. The only advantage to the K2200 would be for the openGL optimization and support in software like Maya an SolidWorks, none of which has been mentioned by Shaggy. It might be a good idea to use a workstation GPU for this build, but not to improve performance or support in any of the software listed, rather, to better support a more diverse selection of CAD software should he want to use something different in the future.

When you compare that to something like the GTX 970, there's a big difference. The 970 is meant to produce high frame rates in gaming, so it dumbs down the floating point calculations. This is why the Quadro cards can go upwards of $5000.
Quadro - CAD/3D
GTX - Gaming
That's a gross generalization and misrepresentation between gaming and workstation GPU's.

Workstation GPU's should be used in applications that leverage the driver for openGL or other compute optimizations, VRAM buffer size, ECC memory (where applicable on specific GPU's, not the K2200), or double precision math performance (where applicable, on specific GPU's, not the K2200).


As far as your optical drive, yes they are obsolete, and your case doesn't support it, but externals are very cheap and will work fine.
If he needs an optical drive a case that supports it should be selected. Cluttering up someones desk with an afterthought is a bad approach.

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Shaggyhardware,

I would like to make a build recommendation, but I need to know what features of Vray you would prefer to use. The CPU renderer is more full featured, while the GPU renderer is substantially faster.

Read here: http://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/VRAY3/GPU+Rendering
Note that most of the GPU's they have tested and recommend are GeForce cards.
Check here to see if the GPU renderer is going to be adequate for your needs: http://docs.chaosgroup.com/display/VRAY3/V-Ray+RT+Supported+Features

It would also be good to know if this build is intended specifically for AutoCAD/Revit/3DSMAX or if you intend to use any other CAD software with it at any point along the way.

Without more detailed information about the use of the software, advising on hardware to maximize performance for your budget is going to be difficult. The build previously proposed in this thread could wind up being a good approach, or could wind up being a total waste.

Professional CAD machines built for maximum modeling/design (viewport) performance come with i7-4790K's, while professional CAD machines built for maximum reliability and stability are built with E3-1200 V3 and E5-1600 V3 series CPUs with ECC memory on C226 and C612 chipset workstation motherboards. More than 4 cores are only ever selected if the machine is ALSO going to be used for major CPU based export rendering. If you can find a GPU based export renderer to suit your needs you'll get a lot more render performance for your dollar that way. I believe octane render will actually work right in revit and autocad without having to export over to 3DSMAX to support vray.

A quad core machine with dual GTX970's could probably be made to fit your budget comfortably, and would be 5X faster than the K2200 in export render performance when used with CUDA based renderers.

Generally speaking: (within the scope of building 3D modeling and CAD computers)
FirePro offers the best value for performance in advanced openGL viewports.
Radeon offers the best value for performance in basic openGL viewports.
GeForce offers the best value in DIrectX viewports and export rendering.
Quadro offers the greatest versatility in terms of API support, but does not usually represent the best value for any one specific purpose.
 

Shaggyhardware

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Feb 17, 2015
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Thanks mdocod,
I am very glad you followed this thread because I was about to buy everything in the next minutes.
I will try to explain my workflow so you can understand better my needs.
With a 1500 to 2000 us Dollars, I want to put together a pc without peripherals (only the case and what is inside including a optical drive).
I work creating architectural renderings, modeling the 3d in Autocad (80%) and sometimes Revit (20%) and exporting to 3ds max in order to render the model using V-ray in daily basis.
I don't use 3ds max for modeling, sometimes for animations but 95% of the time just for rendering static objects using V-ray, Although I have the RT version of V-ray I am not a fan of this feature and I almost not use it, I use the production render for my tests and not the RT (real time) render for it because it interprets in different ways some lights (ies lights) and external libraries like RPC's, so basically I don't care about realtime rendering of V-ray RT. Probably I am wrong but I read that the RT feature is processed on the video card and the production render is done using the processor, but is all over my head.
On the process I use Adobe software like Photoshop and Illustrator, and Premiere to render video.
And lately I am more and more into Photography, and I am spending several hours photoshopping photos.
As I stated before I will never install a game in this computer.
I really hope you can use this information, I really appreciate your time and help!!





 

mdocod

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In many cases the vray GPU renderer is indeed sufficient for final production, just depends on the desired results and what render engine is used, for architecture work I can understand why the GPU results in vray are probably not going to be adequate, as it's not a true "photo-realistic" output.

I think you might benefit from using octane instead of VRAY, as it would eliminate the need to use 3DSMAX as a compatibility link for VRAY, and allow you to get a lot more render performance for your dollar with GPUs instead of CPUs. however, there is something to be said for the tried and true CPU based renderers like Mental Ray, Vray, C4D etc, which as you know, are still popular where absolute photo-realistic results are expected and long render times are tolerable ....

Assuming you want to focus on hardware to best support your existing workflow, I advise the following build:

CPU: E5-2630 V3 ~$650
HSF: Noctua NH-D9L ~$55
MOBO: Supermicro X10DAI-O ~$380
RAM: 2 X 8GB DDR4 ECC RDIMM's ( CT8G4RFS4213 ) ~$180
GPU: GTX960 ~$200
SSD: Toshiba Q Pro 256GB ~$125
Storage: WD 1TB WD1002F9YZ ~$80
ODD: DVD/CD/R/W drive (asus/lg/samy/pioneer/sony whateva): ~$20
PSU: Seasonic SSR-750RM ~$120
Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro or Fractal Design Define XL R2 ~$90-120

You should be able to have that delivered to your door for about $1900 if you leverage best prices and deals out there right now. You can use PCpartpicker for a lot of it but the CPU, MOBO, and RAM are over at superbiiz.com. Last I checked there were promo codes to save like $10 on the RAM and motherboard at superbiiz. Make sure to get the retail version of the motherboard (-O), not the bulk/OEM version, the retail kit should include more accessories, manual, drivers on disk, etc. Newegg has the hard drive listed on Promo for $81.

The idea with this build is practical high value scalability. The export render performance is going to be comparable to an i7-5820K initially, but you have the option to add another equal CPU and RAM to double your render output performance for another ~$900 (CPU + RAM + HSF). The rendering performance of a dual E5-2630 V3 build will be 60% better than an X99 based i7-5960X machine, or approximately equivalent to running a single E5-2699 V3 (a $4000 CPU).

On a final note, regarding the GPU. I have not found any good evidence to suggest that there is any advantage to using a Quadro or FirePro GPU in AutoCAD, 3DSMAX, or REVIT. In fact, there may even be reason to believe that GeForce drivers are apt to be better optimized for these applications than Quadro/FirePro drivers, as GeForce's primary focus is on DirectX performance, optimization, and support, which is what these programs use for their viewport. That said, if it's important to you to be using a GPU on the "qualified/supported" lists, then a K2200 is the best balance of performance, optimizations, and value in the workstation class of GPUs for these applications.
 

Shaggyhardware

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Feb 17, 2015
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Thanks a lot mdocod , I am following your recommendation, it is for sure the best idea in the long term, I am really grateful and I am almost ready to click BUY on all the parts, but a message is poping up and is bothering me on the PCPARTPICKER webpage, the message says:[

b] Potential Issues/Incompatibilities Unbuffered RAM cannot be mixed with Registered RAM[/b]

I was trying to figure it out what is the problem but I could not found anything.
These are the parts that I did put together on the PCpartPicker page (i did not put the mother board because the webpage simply doesnt have it on their list, but I am willing to use this: SUPERMICRO MBD-X10DAI-O Extended ATX Xeon Server Motherboard Dual LGA 2011 Intel C612)

These are the parts:
CPU: Intel Xeon E5-2630 V3 2.4GHz 8-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D9L 46.4 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard:
Memory: Crucial 8GB (1 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory (x2)
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card
Case: Fractal Design Define XL R2 (Black Pearl) ATX Full Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic G-750 750W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive : Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)

One more question is if will worth to buy more ram in this system, total 32 gb?
Please let me know if those parts look right for you, I am more than ready to proceed with the purchase of this parts.
And again thank for your savy opinion.





 

mdocod

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PCPartpicker does not have a proper implementation of workstation/server/enterprise hardware. The fact that the memory model CT8G4RFS4213 even shows up on PCP is effectively a glitch, or an accident. It's not supposed to be on there as they have no protocol in place to properly sort it.

Like I said, just pick up the CPU, MOBO, and Memory from Superbiiz, don't try to use PCP for those.

If you can afford more RAM, go for it. When/if you add another CPU down the road you're going to need to install RAM for it anyway, so you could buy that extra now, install it all on the single CPU for now, then move half over to the second CPU later.