New graphics card, lost re-start capability

[gn842a]

Build: ASUS F2 a85 V-Pro, AMD A10-5600 CPU, 16 gigs DDR3 1600, 850 Watt Thermaltake PSU, Samsung 850 Evo SSD 500 gig, New videocard: ASUS R9-380, old video card: HD6670. Running Win 8.1.

OK--the problem is that with my new R9-380 installed I appear to have lost the restart function. I cannot do a restart from the desktop (no matter which option used), and even if I enter UEFI, when I leave, the computer does not enter boot mode. So, to be clear, I can re-start the computer if I shut it down and use the button to turn it on again. But I don't have the restart-from-desktop capability.

The symptom: during the reboot the monitor goes into power saving mode and the computer itself turns all its fans on full and hangs up in that phase (it never used to turn its fans up all the way during reboot). No reboot occurs. It just stays there cranking its fans. (system temps are normal when system is up and running).

So....I've tried a variety of things, none of which has worked. I need to add that I have great graphics and the various benchmarks (3DMark, UserBenchmark, and Windows Experience) all agree that everything is dandy (and performance improved over previous card).

1. Going to AMD web site and installing drivers *without* using DDU first. The idea being just to let AMD do its thing with its own products. (some driver removal occurs in the AMD installation process, which I know because my uninstaller program notifies me) Result was full graphics, but no re-start capability.

2. So I tried again using DDU first. I used it in regular desktop mode. Remember, I can't use the PC or DDU in safe mode, I have no way to get into safe mode without restart, and that's the issue, I can't re-start. Having used DDU to uninstall graphics drivers, I got that big bloated screen effect. I navigated to the AMD web site and installed drivers there (Radeon Crimson 16.9.2) Full graphics, but no-restart capability. (I also went to their we'll-check-what-you-need for you page and it informed me that I had all the latest drivers and updates)

3. I initiated a restore-point from before the card's arrival and ran the PC with the drivers from the 6670, using the R9-380. At first boot, the graphics were the default chip graphics, big and bloated, but then the PC did a big monitor blink and fully normal graphics resulted. So, I got full graphics, but still no re-start capability.

4. Note that I already had done what the wise heads have recommended in the past, that I disregard the enclosed CD and go directly to the web site, Running out of ideas, I went against common wisdom and installed the drivers from the CD on top of the restore point from before the card's arrival. This CD graphics installation is telling me that I should install Radeon Crimson 16.9.2, which, per #2 above, I already tried. Anyhow I have functioning graphics but no re-start capability. It appears to be no different than permutations 1-3, except it's bugging me to update drivers.

Am I missing something obvious here? My recent installation of an R9-270X upstairs on an identical build did not have these issues. It was my training run for this video card update. The only difference is that the prior history of THAT computer was using apu graphics only. The R9-270x is the first card to be used up there. Downstairs I've had the 6670 for a long time to run dual monitors. The R9-380 also runs both monitors. It does what it is supposed to do, but I can't restart.

I could pretend that this is not a problem but re-start is something that occasionally is needed, particularly to do things like enter safe mode. I would be tempted to do a repair of the OS but there's a catch: the CD I have is win 8.0, I think repair mode would require me to find and download 8.1 again on top of it, and do the hundreds-of-updates thing. I really would rather NOT return this card as I have no reason to think that a new one would do any better.

Any suggestions would be appreciated,

Greg N

 

[gn842a]

Additional information:

Using msconfig.exe, I was able to enter safe mode by checking the setting on the boot tab.

1. If I stay in safe mode, I can reboot normally. By this I mean that if my goal were to stay in safe mode forever, I would be able to have a reboot function.
2. Once I exit safe mode and uncheck the boot tab's go-into-safe mode option, I continue to have the same problem of no restart capability (into normal mode).
3. While in safe mode, I looked at the "refresh" option and was informed by Win 8.1 that some files are missing and need to be restored.

So now I'm thinking....

Option A. Go into safe mode, use DDU to uninstall all drivers, and try one more time to install from AMD. [Edit: I tried this. Still won't restart, but at least we know I can go into safe mode via msconfig.exe]
Option B. Do the Windows 8.1 refresh thing....can this be done with a Win 8.0 disk? [edit: trying to figure out how, if you bought 8.0 and upgraded over the net to 8.1, you can get a repair disk?]

thanks
Greg N

 

[gn842a]

OK found my 8.1 product key and instructions on how to make a rescue disk....this is to do a "refresh" function--any other ideas? thanks Greg N

 

[mercurioneo]

Hello,

I will try to give you some advice.

1. Try the card in your other setup, just to be sure if the problem is in the card. (This way we can discard a hardware problem)
2. If it's work properly with your other setup, I would do a fresh installation, I mean a new installation of windows, maybe some file is corrupted or something.

By the moment I would start with this, if the problem persist please let us know.

 

[simon12]

Try resting the bios to default, have you tried putting the old card back in?

 

[gn842a]

Can't download a version of 8.1 because of an odbc32.dll "missing" error. I've seen this error before. Because of high frustration, paid $15.00 to dll-files.com only to have them say that the file is in the system and in use, and that if it is in use, it's not missing, and probably not corrupted. Sooo......now I wish to scream.

 

[gn842a]

OK, I see the suggestion about switching the card to the upstairs system. That won't work, because the case upstairs is too small for this card, which barely fit my downstairs full ATX case. I'll measure it again, but I'm dubious.

Yes, I could try putting the old card back in, and will see what happens.

Right now it looks like my only "repair" option is with Windows 8. I don't know how that will work as my product key (read from the desktop) is for Win 8.1.

I'd be willing to try someone else's recommended site for downloading a rescue version of windows...

thanks for suggestions,

Greg N

p.s. this is eating up a lot of my day so I may not get back for a while. I am not fond of pulling cards in and out because IMHO it stresses the motherboard every time you mess with something, but maybe my fears are unfounded.

 

[gn842a]

OK. I put the old card back in. The re-start problem continues to persist. The only thing I can think of at this point is to try to refresh the operating system. You can make a recovery drive through windows but for some reason mine will NOT do a CD. It created a bootable rescue drive on a memory stick, but when I got to the point of using it, it said I was locked out of the hard drive. Research on getting locked out of your hard drive shows more nightmares.

I guess my choice at this point is to try to refresh my 8.1 system using 8.0 or to buy another version of 8.1 (on CD). I saw a web site that wanted $40 to make a recovery disk for 8.1 and that's just not going to happen, since a complete OS can be had for under a hundred.

I can't believe how many hours have gone into this.....

GN

 

[Obakasama]

I don't think it's a hardware issue as such, but it does seem very coincidental. To me it seems like a Windows problem rather than hardware.

Have a look at this to see if there is something you could try.

 

[gn842a]

--The old card is back in.
--I haven't tried setting the bios to default, not sure how I've customized it (if at all).
--I followed Obakasama's link and used regedit to get all the way down to the bottom level where the "no close" option should be, but I didn't have a "no close" option. It was a "no drive" option and it was already set to the same setting as the "no close" option. I consider that a dead end, when I'm messing with the internals of the OS I like to have 100% accurate instructions because I certainly don't know what I'm doing wading into 500,000 different settings (at least it seems like 500,000, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is)
--so anyhow I'll try the bios. I'll do that right away, that's a good idea that I hadn't thought of.
--I've looked around on ebay, I see rescue drives for as little as $5, I found a windows 8.1 for $40 (hopefully virgin). I decided to get windows 8.1 in order to have full capabilities on hand in case a complete OS reinstall is needed. While waiting for it to be delivered, I can try to "refresh" using the win 8.0 cd that I have.
--Since I am now in exactly the same situation with my *old* card that I was in with the *new* card, I'm debating whether I shouldn't just go ahead and install the new card so that any future fiddling (such as refresh or installs) will encounter the new video card and incorporate it into the installation process. There's no gain at the moment in keeping the old card except the slight possibility that the eventual cure would work with the old card but not the new.

I have a full day tomorrow, won't be able to mess with OS refresh till tomorrow night at the earliest.

Thanks to everyone for pitching in with their ideas.

Greg N

 

[gn842a]

Well resetting the UEFI to defaults didn't do anything to solve the problem.

 

[Obakasama]

There is the possibility that if the registry key is missing, then what it governs is not available to the system. (It does make sense if you think about it.)

What about simpler things like power settings? Have you, by chance, had a look at those to see what options are available to you?

 

[gn842a]

I dunno Obaka, there are some power settings in the UEFI, I reset everything to defaults which should work well enough.

I'm going to try using the original OS CD to do a system refresh tonight. If it tells me it is locked out of the hard drive (what happened when I made a rescue disk following instructions about how to get windows to do this) I shall scream and bash my head against the wall.

If that doesn't work I canl install a totally new copy of Win 8.1. Or, I am also seriously flirting with just living with the problem, since I know I can get into SAFE MODE by going into MSCONFIG.EXE, setting the tab, and doing a manual shut down and boot. I've got some significant software costs that are on the system and I'm going to have to add them up and see what the cost benefit is. If I can get the system to last two more years (my goal) I'll just build a new desktop down the line and deal with the costs then.

There's also the possibility of upgrading to Win 10, which I don't want to do (I really like 8.1) which I suppose would preserve my software and files. It's really the paid-for software that's the biggest issue, I have multiple different ways that my personal data files are backed up.

Greg N

 

[Obakasama]

With power settings I was thinking about the ones in Windows itself rather than BIOS. (I admit, I still believe this is a Windows issue.)

Incidentally, have you tried ALT + F4 on the desktop to see what shut down options come up?

On an aside, I can understand the fear of losing software. I was afraid of losing my full Office package on Windows 7 when the Windows 10 free upgrade offer was available. I didn't opt for a fresh install of Windows 10 but the upgrade option, but it kept Office. Same with my anti-virus.

I don't know how far you are along the buying a new copy or replacement route, but... have a look at this if you haven't taken that step yet. I had to do something similar with Windows 10 after a lot of blue screen crashes.

 

[gn842a]

Well I did a bunch of different things. I reinstalled the new graphic card, since the re-start problem appears with both, no reason to deprive myself. I also put in the latest drivers. It all works and benchmarks OK.

1. I tried to "refresh" with my original Windows CD, that didn't work. I am locked out of the hard drive.
2. I tried "automatic repair" (my only alternative near as I can see) with the same CD, that didn't work either, again, I was locked out of the hard drive.
3. I downloaded SSDlife to test my SSD and it seems to be doing OK. But when I run UserBenchmark, I don't understand the result, it puts the drive at 77%, which is good, but says it is perfroming well below expectations, which is bad. I'll try to post that.

Well I tried to post the picture but I'm not finding where that function is, if there is in fact one.

 

[gn842a]

Well my son suggested that I run a couple of experiments. I have a spare 128 gig SSD that I can install the newly arrived version of 8.1 on. That would allow me to see if a new OS plus new CD cures the re-start problem, which would exonerate the graphics card.

Then I can mirror the current SSD on to the older one (I'm worried that may not work due to space issues, but we'll see). If the problem migrates to the backup SSD, the issue is in the OS.

If it doesn't, that would suggest the problem is in the SSD.

Greg N

 

[gn842a]

The Gods are really fighting me on this one. I brought down the old (120 gig) SSD and installed the new win 8.1 on it. Success! The computer gets back its re-start with this install. However, the fresh install did not have drivers for the video card. I installed them and got the BSOD. This is on the *old* SSD. So I have a *new* problem on the *old* SSD.

My next thought was that well, i can proceed to the second part of my test, and clone the new SSD on to the old one, thus bypassing the issue of the drivers, and thereby moving to the second part of my test: that the issue is in the new 500 gig SSD and not in the OS.

BUT, Acronis will not boot into this project (old SSD copying to new one). I downloaded Macrium and it said....wait for it....we can't do the new SSD on tot he old one because the old one is too small.

So anyhow I hooked everything back up and I have a functioning desktop but it still has the re-start problem. I decided to order a 500 gig SSD, an sk hynix.

There doesn't seem to be any end to this, when I go down an alley to check something out, I encounter a fresh obstacle that appears to be unrelated to the problem I'm trying to solve. And that fresh obstacle requires more research and time, with no promise of success.



GN

 

[Obakasama]

I've read somewhere that it is typical for cloning software to work from small hard drive to large, but not the other way around. As a hypothetical the only thing I can imagine trying in this situation would be to investigate whether it was possible to partition the larger SSD so all the data you require is on a partition which is smaller than the SSD you are trying to clone to.

I'm not familiar with cloning software but part of me suspects that unless it can clone specific parts as chosen by the user, it would just clone it wholesale. If that is the case then it won't resolve your lack of restart.

Personally, if the smaller drive has the restart function you were looking for then it might be worth trying to resolve the blue screen issue. You would need to know what it is, but from what you've mentioned it strongly suggests a driver issue.

 

[gn842a]

I've read somewhere that it is typical for cloning software to work from small hard drive to large, but not the other way around. As a hypothetical the only thing I can imagine trying in this situation would be to investigate whether it was possible to partition the larger SSD so all the data you require is on a partition which is smaller than the SSD you are trying to clone to.

I'm not familiar with cloning software but part of me suspects that unless it can clone specific parts as chosen by the user, it would just clone it wholesale. If that is the case then it won't resolve your lack of restart.

Personally, if the smaller drive has the restart function you were looking for then it might be worth trying to resolve the blue screen issue. You would need to know what it is, but from what you've mentioned it strongly suggests a driver issue.

I share your view about drivers and BSOD. But forum crawls on BSOD and drivers suggest otherwise. I would pursue it but my reward for success would be an ssd that is too small. SO I ordered another ssd of correct size.

If clone works I'm done, the problem was likely in the ssd. If clone does not work, then I will spend time on drivers and BSOD on the smaller 120 g drive. Because then I will need a fresh OS install on one of the two 500 gig ssds. I might encounter the BSOD driver issue again, and solving it on the 120 gig ssd will reduce the frustration.

Thanks for sticking with this thread. Greg N

 

[gn842a]

Well the new correct size SSD Sk Hynix is here. The 500 gig Evo will not clone to it. I get an error message: "bad file descriptor mft corrupt error code 6". It then tells me to run chkdsk c: /r.

I did run chckdsk c: /r and on booting it said it had fixed the problem. But I still could not clone.

So I seem to be running out of options. I can install the new OS on the new SSD and proceed to re-acquire my software, or I can live with the system as is.

Staying with the system "as is" is not what I was hoping for after all this troubleshooting effort, but it really is amazing how much time this issue is taking. It's a kind of Phyrric victory situation. At this point even if I win I've lost.

Greg N

 

[Obakasama]

I had a google about that error message, and it's supposed to indicate a problem with Windows itself. (No idea why you can't clone though.)

At this point I would suggest using "sfc /scannow" using a command prompt to check if there are system file errors. (I still believe it's a Windows issue...) That would check for system file corruption. The chkdsk command you used earlier should have performed similarly but another check can't hurt.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/kb/929833

This link for more direction.

Knowing you've tried a lot of things, did you come across the safe mode and clean boot methods? And I take it ALT+F4 had no success either?

 

[gn842a]

Alt F4 does not work.

I might try sfc /scannow. I can also try installing Macrium on the computer upstairs and putting my two current drives on as D and E drives, and seeing if the clone can be executed from one to the other with the C drive in charge of the show. (Macrium would in theory allow a clone from C to D.) The Macrium rescue disk, like my Acronis rescue disk, doesn't load.

Failing that I'll start to build a new hard drive for the downstairs computer, and when it's pretty much ready I'll swap it out. I keep 98% of my files on a storage HDD, I'm not worried about those, but I am more concerned about losing all the installed software, a cost of money (and time). I guess at this point the time is incidental, this has turned into an epic.

Greg N