New Graphics Card or New Computer?

[seejay]

Hello, this is my first post and i need to know whether it would be worth it to buy a new graphics card so i can play my games rather smoothly or to buy a new gaming computer all together. I recently 'inherited' my mom's old laptop and i bought starcraft 2 shortly after (about 2 days ago and 2 days after the inheritance). So i download starcraft 2 and when i first was running it it got to be so laggy that i just disconnected, this happened on the starting screen/menu before i even started a game or the campaign. So i did some research online for a few hours that ultimately did not help much. Then i called best buy and they told me they didn't have what i need but that i should check whether my laptop's graphics card is 'integrated' or 'stand-alone' and that bring to me this point on the forums. Also, if any gaming laptops are suggested it must have 128mb video ram, a 2.6GHz processor/harddrive (this one has 2.19 but runs at a 2.81 level? Explanation?) as well as 1 gig of ram. The reason I'm 'picky' is because those are the MINIMUM requirements for starcraft
Max price for graphics card: $50-70

Max price for a new computer (atleast 128mb video ram): ~$450 (i realize that this is considered being 'cheap' in the gaming computer world.

Current Graphics Card: ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M Series

 

[infernox_01]

heres a good $99 graphics card. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127495&cm_re=gts250-_-14-127-495-_-Product

the gts450 is rumoured to come out in september, you could wait a few weeks for it. it might reduce the prices of other cards. then theres the HD6000 rumours, the 6700 series is meant to debut in october, again it might reduce the prices of the current 5700 series.

 

[asteldian]

Don't be put off building your own just because you hve never done it. Also don't be put off by the fact all these brand names and and items with complicated names are around (like motherboards having silly names like Asus P&P55D Pro)

On this forum people will offer up a number of builds and you will find people agreeing with them or tweaking them slightly, ultimately though, picking any build someone has suggested here will be a far more powerful PC than anything prebuilt.

Due to your budget, you will be looking at an AMD (as opposed to Intel) build for best value for money. You will be wanting a modern AMD motherboard which means it will run DDR3 RAM (if you type DDR3 into Newegg you get lots of selections)

When choosing your CPU you will be wanting multi core, so either 2, 3, 4 or 6 (These are the ones available by AMD). 2 Cores are no longer recommended for gaming, so you want a minimum of 3. 4 will be beyond your price range unless you buy a slow Quad Core processor, but the faster Tri core will be more benefiical

For a build you will be looking for something like:

CPU: AMD Athlon II RANA x3 440 (3.0ghz) - $75
Motherboard: an Asus/Gigabyte 770 motherboard $55-$75
Hard Drive: Samsung spinpoint F3 500gb - $55
DDR3 4gb RAM: Either Mushkin, G SKill or Corsair - ~$100
Case: Any half decent case, probably a Rosewill for affordibility - $40
DVD Drive: any cheap one - $18
PSU: Corsair/Silverstone 450/550W - $60-70
GPU: 5770 - $150

Taking into account combos we will adjust the build slightly
RANA 445 + Biostar 770 Motherboard - $111
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.478085&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=3463938&SID=4g7tsqks1z

Samsung Spinpoint F3 500gb + OCZ 550W PSU - $100 ($80 after rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.466067

Rosewill Case plus DVD Drive - $49
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.467039

4gb RAM G Skill - $98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303&cm_re=g_skill_4gb_ddr3-_-20-231-303-_-Product

Evga GTX250 - $85
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130539&cm_re=gtx_250-_-14-130-539-_-Product

Total: $423

Unfortunately this leaves you without Windows 7 which is $100. If needs be you could drop to 2gb RAM to save money. You can always add another 2gb at a later date.

The hardest part of PC building is picking the parts to buy, putting it together is actually amazingly simple. As a first timer being real careful it will likely take you about 3 or so hours.

This build is far superior to the prebuilt one you had which had what I would class as a 'non gaming Graphics card' as well as being lacking in other departments too.

 

[infernox_01]

Evga GTX250 - $85
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130539&cm_re=gtx_250-_-14-130-539-_-Product

this card is $85 after mail in rebate. the card i linked to before was $99.99 before rebate and $69.99 after mail in rebate. free shipping aswell.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127495&cm_re=gts250-_-14-127-495-_-Product

 

[seejay]

So using

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127495&cm_re=gts250-_-14-127-495-_-Product&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-RSSDailyDeals-_-na-_-na&AID=10521304&PID=3463938&SID=eg7zxcoe6u

and

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231098&cm_re=2gb_ram-_-20-231-098-_-Product
Will 2gb be enough to run modern games smoothly? (starcraft, maybe the new diablo)

along with the other items you posted it adds up to 369.92. The OS is tearing this plan apart dang. And do i need a fancy case for it all? that case is like $40. Also, people keep mentioning nvidia 5670 for a card.

I have about $390 right now but in a week or two i'll have $450 so i guess this could work. Anyone elses parents saying 'you cant spend all your money to play video games'? Which is another bad thing cause if i bought a laptop i could say it would last me through school, desktops being cheaper, its basically my only choice ey?

 

[asteldian]

Quite right Infernox, your GPU is a better buy.

2gb is good enough but you will eventually want to upgrade to 4gb when possible.
You can get a cheaper case, but with the combo deal it is already working out to be $30, any less than that and the quality of case will be questionable.

It's not just for games, any kind of projects or coursework can be done on it, internet browsing, research. School usually provides computers to work on anyway so you shouldn't need a laptop to use there. Certainly when I was at school all my lesson notes were done by hand and I just used PC to write up important work - which can be done at home.

 

[infernox_01]

the gts250 is better then the hd5670. it does depend on whether you use a 64 bit operating system or a 32 bit operating system for the ram. 2gb would be fine on a 32 bit operating system but you would need 4gb on a 64 bit operating system. its an mATX board, it should fit in most cases.

if you get a cheaper case, the build quality will be lowered. the case might be weak and use thin metal. there might be sharp edges inside the case as well that you might hurt yourself on when putting the comp together.

 

[seejay]

I know im not completely disfunctional as in i can find my own case but... i dont know what case has the right things like cooling fans or size etc.

 

[infernox_01]

the gts450 reviews so far (from foreign websites) have shown it to be similar to the 5770. the 5770 beats it in crysis by a fair margin so it looks like the gts450 is a 10-20% performance boost from the gts250. all we know so far is that the asus card will retail for $150. this picture summarises its performance.

 

[seejay]

nice graph.
Rosewill Case plus DVD Drive - $30 - no longer available. Ouch.. didnt know those deals were limited time only

Check out this computer i found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883109045
2.7GHz, 2gb ram, NVIDIA GeForce 6150 SE. Seems good to me

 

[seejay]

http://www.amazon.com/DESKTOP-PC-3-10GHz-DVD-ROM-WINDOWS/dp/B003DDWWD4/ref=sr_1_19?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1283626727&sr=1-19

Also found that. Anything wrong with it?

 

[infernox_01]

a sempron processor and a 6150 is a low end computer. the second 1 looks ok but it doesnt state the graphics card and it only has a 40gb HDD.

these combo deals might save you some money.

x3 440 with rosewell 530w power supply-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.492976

x3 440 with windows 7 home premium-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.437518.19-103-843

x3 445 with samsung 24x dvd burner-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.494799

g skill 2x2 gb ddr3 ram with asus am3 amd motherboard-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.496224

rosewill case with lite-on 24x dvd writer-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.492936

rosewill case with 640gb western digital hard drive-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.493010

rosewill case with windows 7 home premium-http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.437504.11-147-112

there are more but i found these pretty fast.

 

[seejay]

yeah so:

case/OS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.437504.11-147-112

Processor/power supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.492976

Motherboard/4gb ram (maybe theres a motherboard/2gb ram)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.496224

Still need hard drive/graphics card to my knowledge; state what else i need to have a complete computer. Looking for both in the same combo (if there is none i can just use the graphics card you suggested earlier then find a hard drive infernox_01). Which will makes it well over $500 but i can try for 2gb ra


I know its hard to help a guy like me but i really do appreciate it

 

[infernox_01]

looks like the gts250 i linked to has gone up in price. this has similar performance at $99.99 but its not in any combo deals.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102834&cm_re=hd_4850-_-14-102-834-_-Product

do you require a dvd rom drive? i couldnt find 1 that had a combo deal with a hard drive but this 1 is pretty cheap and still good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118039

it might not matter anyway since this is a pretty cheap 320gb hard drive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152244

all together that comes up to $530 without taking into account shipping costs.

you could save some money by getting a worse graphics card and maybe there are some different combos that could work out cheaper.

 

[seejay]

I don't see much difference between your linked card and this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102829&cm_re=graphics_cards_for_desktop-_-14-102-829-_-Product

about $110 if using your linked hard drive. I might need a dvd drive i guess, what is it for? (i wont be watching dvd's or movies)

How low of a graphics card: as long as i can play on medium or high settings on starcraft2 (which should mean ill be able to play on other modern games also) I'll be fine. No need for ultra settings.

 

[ScrewySqrl]

I dont see much difference between your linked card and this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102829&cm_re=graphics_cards_for_desktop-_-14-102-829-_-Product

about $110 if using your linked hard drive. I might need a dvd drive i guess, what is it for? (i wont be watching dvd's)

loading programs!

Most good software comes on DVD nowadays, including the OS

 

[seejay]

Does that mean i wont have a button on my actual pc to open a disk tray to put in game-cd's and all that stuff?

 

[ScrewySqrl]

Does that mean i wont have a button on my actual pc to open a disk tray to put in game-cd's and all that stuff?

the dvd drive you buy will be that disk tray

 

[infernox_01]

if you wanna get a HD4650, you would be better off with this. same company (sapphire) but cheaper. the one you linked to was a low profile card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102843&cm_re=hd_4650-_-14-102-843-_-Product

i think the 4650 with the x3 processor could run starcraft 2 on medium details. the change in graphics card has saved you $50. you will need a dvd drive to install windows 7. you could also go for the 4670, it is around 10-15% faster.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102820&cm_re=hd_4670-_-14-102-820-_-Product

 

[seejay]

i guess ill need it, the desktop i already have has one, can i take that one out?

The second link is 512mb compared to the 1gb but its $20 more?

I didnt think you could get a 1gb video card for $45 anyways... is there some down-side to it? 1gb should run on ultra settings for starcraft as far as i know.

Dont i need ddr3? those are ddr2. What is ddr

 

[infernox_01]

yeh you can take out your current dvd-rom and use it in this new build to save you some money.

heres the 1gb version of the HD4670.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102855&cm_re=hd_4670-_-14-102-855-_-Product

the 4670 is ddr3 while the 4650 is ddr2. thats 1 of the reasons the 4670 is better. for the price you cant do much better then a 4650.

anyway toms hardware just made an article about building a $400 gaming pc. its pretty similar to what we have suggested so you could take some of the parts they suggested but it doesnt include windows 7 and you can take the optical drive out of the equation so it will still be under $500. if you wanna save money replace the hd5670 with the hd4650 to save you around $40.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/gaming-pc-build-a-pc-overclock,review-31989.html

 

[seejay]

PowerColor AX5670 512MD5-H Radeon HD 5670

I have a feeling that the card above is better than:

SAPPHIRE 100296HDMI Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 (will this one be able to run sc2 on atleast medium? reviewers say it runs their games nicely but they also say its a low-end card and that it takes up 2 spots cause of its large fan etc..)

because of 5670 and 4670? But the sapphire one looks better to me because of 1gb and ddr3 i guess.

That $400 build doesn't come with a CPU cooler but i guess that isnt a big deal.
Are all of those prices going to remain the same for a while since they aren't in combo deals?

I'll also see if i can take out the DVD drive from my current desktop (if possible).

So it will be:

$400-18=$382+100= $482 with their setup

$400-18-31=$351+100=$451 with the sapphire card

Since they didnt include an OS that means their $400 budget is false? because you cant really do anything without an OS.

 

[ScrewySqrl]

no. there are free OSes out there (Linux ditros) they just aren't great for gaming

The toms $400 systems tend to assume you already have an OS, Monitor, Keyboard & mouse, etc to put in.

the CPU comes with a cooler that is fine if you leave the CPU stock, and can handle overclocking up until you increase the Voltage.

 

[seejay]

I dont know if i can transfer OS's from computer-computer ha. But yes i have a monitor, mouse, and keyboard. No OS as far as i know: if i did have an OS it would probably be XP. (Would it come in disk form?)

So if the free OS could run modern games at Medium settings at the least, subtract $100 from the prices in my last post.

I read 'overclocking' a lot, is that just extending the ram of your graphics card?

 

[ScrewySqrl]

Overclocking is increasing the operational speed of your CPU/GPU/Memory in order to increase performance. It is rather akin to the 1950s-60s American craze of hot-rodding your car. Increased performance at a potential cost of increased wear. It lets less expensive equipment compete with higher levels of equipment, or extend the useful life of older equipment. It also voids your warranty

The reason the Free OS's are not so good for gaming, is there aren't many games written for them. a VERY few games have a Linux version (the only popular MMO I know of with it is Second Life). YOu can do some Windows Emulation in Linux, but its good for offce, games are more questionable.

 

[seejay]

Not sure if i want to void a warranty