[SOLVED] New IDE drive not recognized

[gardenman]

Hi. I'm trying to have a backup replacement hard drive for an older Dell Dimension 8100. This is a IDE system. The current drive is working. It's an Western Digital Caviar SE (WD2500) 250 GB. I bought this Seagate drive so I could have a backup and wanted to do a fresh install of Windows on it. I don't want both drives plugged up at the same time. I will be using 1 drive or the other. The old drive still works, has Windows XP on it and boots fine.

I can't seem to get the new drive to be recognized. There is a jumper on it and I've tried it in all 4 positions. It came in position #1. Here are the results:

Position 1: Blinking cursor
Position 2: Blinking cursor
Position 3: "Primary hard disk drive 0 not found"
Position 4: "Primary hard disk drive 0 not found"

On the drive itself, it says Position 1 is Master=On Slave=Off. Besides the DVD drive, this will be the only drive in the system so it seems like position 1 would be correct. Also right now, I have the DVD drive unplugged so it won't interfere.

Yesterday, before I even tried changing the jumper, I also received "No boot device available". I wouldn't know how to make it give me that error again.

The drive gives off a little click and spins up when it's powered on, just like all normal HDDs.

The cables are fine. I've switched between the two drives several times now. The old one is recognized and works with no problems.

The BIOS has about 25 different types of drives to choose from and I've been choosing Auto since the drive isn't listed. The other drive works on the "Auto" setting.

I'm not sure if the problem is the drive, the jumper, or the BIOS. I'm thinking it's the drive, but it does spin up, sounds good, and looks new.

All I'm looking for is a "OS not found" (or similar) error. If I can get to that point, it would be a good start.

Any ideas?

 

[Math Geek]

look at the drive that works and boots up. i would set the jumper to the same as that drive for the new drive.

this should ensure that there is no master slave problem on the cable.

the "No boot device available" error means that there is nothing in the system that is able to boot. that can be a good error as it can indicate the hdd works and is recognized but just does not have an OS on it, which you already know. that would be my goal to ensure the drive is ready to install to.

a second option would be to see if there is 2 ide channels. plug the dvd on its own cable into one channel and then the hdd on it's own cable into the other channel. both set to master and it might overcome any issues.

a video of the inside of the case appears to show 2 ide connections but was hard to tell.


edit:
other thing i just remembered is that many of those ide drives came with floppy disks that installed drivers for them and set-up software and so on. you had to boot to one of these to initialize it and so on before it could be used in the system. this might be what is messing you up as well. check and see if there might be some drivers needed from a boot disk to use the hdd. been a while but i remember this being an issue back then

 

[gardenman]

look at the drive that works and boots up. i would set the jumper to the same as that drive for the new drive.

Thanks for the reply. I've tried that. I've tried the jumper in all of the positions. It's 2 different brands so I wasn't sure if there was a standard for these jumper positions or not. But I have tried all positions (except removing the jumper all together).

The old drives jumper is in position 2. The instructions on the new drive say Position 2 is "Cable Select" (pictured below).

the "No boot device available" error means that there is nothing in the system that is able to boot. that can be a good error as it can indicate the hdd works and is recognized

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe it's the error that I want. That happened yesterday. I also got partially through the XP install one time yesterday (files were loaded into memory, not onto new HDD). I should have mentioned that in the first post. Unfortunately, I cannot get that error again no matter what I try. Since that point I've got nothing but the other error: "Primary hard disk drive 0 not found"

Yesterday I didn't even look at the jumper or even think about it. So it was in position 1 the whole time yesterday when I got it half way working. I'll put it back in position one even though I tried that earlier today and it didn't help.

There is another IDE channel / cable in the PC with nothing plugged into it. I haven't tried using it but I will.

I'm pretty sure there's no drivers for the HDD. I've had to replace the drive several times over the years and I usually just get a cheap small IDE and I don't remember doing drivers for any of them. The floppy is unplugged and is unlikely to work.

https://imgur.com/a/54pkjjk

View: https://imgur.com/a/54pkjjk


So I'll try both IDE cables, and try the jumper in both positions 1 and 2. I'll probably do that tomorrow and reply back then. I'm in no rush since the old drive still works. Thanks, I'll reply back with more info later.

 

[mdd1963]

The photo implies the jumper installed is "Master" and "none" (meaning 'no jumper?) is slave....

So, if your existing drive is likely Master if on the same IDE dual plug cable, so, put the new drive with no jumper, and, try again....

 

[Math Geek]

sorry, guess i should clarify. by same jumper position as old hdd i did not mean exact same place but rather if old drive was cable select, then new one should be as well. or master/slave as well. some drives were master if no jumper in place or cable select, there were tons of combos if i recall right considering there was only a few options to chose from. every brand/model was different.

i'd try the other ide slot and see if separating them helps. but if i recall right, cable select was about the best option to ensure fewer issues. even with them both on different cables, i'd try them as both cable select and then possibly both master if that does not work.

man it's been so long since i've used these terms....

 

[ElectrO_90]

Is the DVD Drive IDE as well?
I'd have one connected on each cable for now, that way you don't need to play with jumpers.
You should always have Master and Slave on 1 cable, with Master being closest connected to the IDE interface from motherboard.
Also, has your original drive been set to Master/Slave/Cable select?

 

[Math Geek]

nice addition!!!

i forgot about putting the master closer to the mobo on the cable. that is a good bit of advice there. get enough of us old guys together and we might remember it all

 

[gardenman]

Wow, thanks for the replies everyone. I see my ancient PC has generated some interest so I'll post some info about it at the bottom.

So, if your existing drive is likely Master if on the same IDE dual plug cable, so, put the new drive with no jumper, and, try again....

Thanks for the reply. I'll only be using 1 drive or the other. Not both. I still might give it a try with no jumper too.

by same jumper position as old hdd i did not mean exact same place but rather if old drive was cable select, then new one should be as well.

Thanks, I understand now. See answer below.

Is the DVD Drive IDE as well?

Thanks for the reply. Yes, both drives are IDE. The DVD drive barely works (I have to manually eject the disc using the pinhole on the front). I tried 2 or 3 other old drives that I have too. This was the best one.

I'd have one connected on each cable for now, that way you don't need to play with jumpers.

Good idea. I'll try that too. Both drives with jumper position 1 and each on their own cable, closest to MB.

The current setup with the original drive is on the END of the cable. The old drive is a Western Digital Caviar SE (WD2500) 250 GB. Hmm... according to this WD documentation, the jumper is on pins 7&8. I'm not sure if that's the correct page or not. That page also says the Primary Master is on the end of the cable?

Fun facts:

• The PC was used heavily from 2000 to 2010. Approx. 14 hours a day. (51k hours)
• The PC has been used lightly from 2010 to 2019 approx. 10 hours a day. (32k hours)
• An estimate: 83,000+ total hours. Downtime is probably less than 30 days total. Subtract 350 hours if you like.
• Dell Dimension 8100, 1.4 GHz, 384 MB of RAM.
• It still has the original: motherboard, CPU, GPU (partially working), RAM (which was upgraded from 128MB), and case.
• I've replace the PSU once. I've been through several hard drives, CD/DVD drives, monitors, keyboards, and mice.
• IDE cables are brittle. Wish me luck.
• Ever seen the inside of a 19 year old PC? Well it's rather dirty. Dust gathers in places that you CANNOT clean. I would post more pics if it wasn't so bad.

I'll give these things a try tomorrow. Thanks all!

 

[jsmithepa]

TL;DR

A typical IDE Mobo will have 2 IDE channels, for 2 ribbon cables. The easiest is to plug in the new drive in the 2nd channel channel, that way u wouldn't have to worry about setting the drive to master or slave.

 

[gardenman]

The easiest is to plug in the new drive in the 2nd channel channel

Thank you for the reply. I'll only be using 1 drive or the other, not both at the same time. But there is also a DVD drive that must be used to install Windows.

So here's the result for today.

Drive	Cable	Location on Cable	Jumper Position	Result
Original W.D. (ran 10 hours last night)	1	End	2	Works
New Seagate	1	End	1	Blinking Cursor
New Seagate	1	End	2	Blinking Cursor
New Seagate	1	End	Removed	Primary hard disk drive 0 not found
New Seagate	2	End	1	Blinking Cursor
New Seagate	2	First	1	Blinking Cursor 1st try, Frozen BIOS 2nd try
New Seagate	1	First	1	Blinking Cursor
New Seagate	1	End	3	Primary hard disk drive 0 not found

I did update the BIOS when I tried the drive in different positions.

The PC gives off 2 beeps with the "Primary hard disk drive 0 not found" error.

I did not have the DVD drive plugged in today as I see no need for it until I get the correct error from the BIOS about the missing O.S. I usually run the PC with only the Western Digital hard drive plugged in. For these tests, I either had the old drive plugged in, or the new drive, only.

New note: If I get the primary hard disk drive 0 not found, and I press F2 to go into BIOS, then I exit back out with saving, then I get the "No boot device available". I now believe that isn't the right error that I'm looking for, I just think the BIOS can't find any potentially bootable media, including the new drive.

I'm still leaning towards this being a bad disk, or the BIOS isn't able to handle the disk.

I also believe that the blinking cursor when using Cable 1, Jumper Position 1, is the right settings. It's on the end of the cable and the jumper in position 1 means Master, it's just that something is going wrong, maybe a bad disk.

https://imgur.com/a/Fi5xwR0

View: https://imgur.com/a/Fi5xwR0

 

[Math Geek]

yah after all that i'm with you there. the disk itself must be a bad one. no reason for it to not work on any setting other than it being DOA.

i can't think of anything else to try considering you've pretty well covered it all.

and a SUPER KUDOS to you for using the new table BBCode. that made my day

 

[gardenman]

Thanks. I needed to someone to confirm my thoughts. I think I've tried about everything that I can.

I just went though the return process with Amazon. I'll be sending it back Monday. I decided to get a refund on the drive for now. I was afraid of getting a replacement and getting another bad one from this seller.

This Seagate was $20. The WD that I'm using is about $35. I might end up trying another one of those. I haven't decided yet.

I like the new tables on here, I use them almost every day for dump files. That was one of the first things I did as soon as we got access to them was change over to tables. I also like the imgur galleries but I'm afraid some people may not see there is more than 1 picture with those.

Thanks for the help everyone, I appreciate it!