News New incredibly tiny RAM sticks that jam up to 128GB of memory in a laptop get industry's stamp of approval - CAMM2 standard ratified by JEDEC

[Admin]

We will probably see laptops switching from traditional SO-DIMM memory to CAMM2 in the coming years, now that JEDEC made it official.

New incredibly tiny RAM sticks that jam up to 128GB of memory in a laptop get industry's stamp of approval - CAMM2 standard ratified by JEDEC : Read more

 

[King_V]

However, there are single memory channel CAMM2 modules planned, according to the source.

Why??

 

[-Fran-]

Holy cow! Dell actually did the right thing. I am greatly surprised.

Kudos to the Dell engineers that managed to convince the execs to make this happen.

Regards.

 

[usertests]

Why??

Some CPUs don't support more than single-channel, like Alder Lake-N and Mendocino.

 

[bit_user]

incredibly tiny RAM sticks

What's this about them being tiny?? The chips are the same ones as you'd have on SODIMMs, so I don't foresee them being much smaller than a pair of them, next to each other.

Why??

'cuz OEMs like money. Seems obvious that they'd make a half-populated one, at the low-end.

@usertests is spot-on about Alder Lake-N only supporting only single-channel. Even the 8-core N305, with the same 32EU iGPU as the desktop Alder Lake! Awful, isn't it?

 

[milkylainen]

Maybe now we can stop hearing Apple excuses for soldering?

 

[usertests]

Maybe now we can stop hearing Apple excuses for soldering?

This does not eliminate 100% of soldered scenarios. It's still larger and less thin, it's probably not going into many tablets, as nice as it might be. And just look at Meteor Lake packages with memory on them. At best CAMM halts the complete collapse of user-upgradeable memory (in mobile) that would have happened if nothing was available to replace SODIMM for DDR6.

 

[bit_user]

Okay, so if it's this form factor, then I'll agree it's tiny.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-unveils-lpcamm-up-to-128gb-of-ddr5-in-60-less-space
​

However, that's not the form factor that was pictured. The one pictured is Dell's, which I think isn't much smaller than a pair of SODIMMs, sitting next to each other.

 

[bit_user]

At best CAMM halts the complete collapse of user-upgradeable memory (in mobile) that would have happened if nothing was available to replace SODIMM for DDR6 LPDDR5X.

Fixed that, for you.

 

[usertests]

Fixed that, for you.

No. DDR5 is considered the last generation for which SODIMM would have been possible. With DDR6, which is coming, CAMM is needed. So without CAMM or a similar standard, we would have seen 100% soldered LPDDR6/7/X/whatever memory in the mobile market.

CAMM to Usurp SO-DIMM Laptop Memory Form Factor Says JEDEC Member

Dell debuted the Compression Attached Memory Module design last year.

www.tomshardware.com

CAMM: The future of laptop memory has arrived

The CAMM Common Spec module should replace the aging SO-DIMM module as early as next year in some laptops.

www.pcworld.com

 

[kjfatl]

Will this become the standard for desktop computers with DDR6?

 

[atomicWAR]

Will this become the standard for desktop computers with DDR6?

It's looking like for the DDR6+laptop era save soldered ram. And i don't think any users want a non-upgradable future in hardware. Only those in the industry like Apple, who want to lock everything down so you have to pay them exclusively and upfront (ie no upgrading ram or SSDs down the road), would love to see technologies like this die.

 

[usertests]

Will this become the standard for desktop computers with DDR6?

It should be found in mini PCs eventually, maybe some Mini-ITX motherboards.

Completely replacing DIMMs would be wild. I feel like we would already know if that was going to be the case. There's no indication that I've seen. Only SODIMM got the boot.

Samsung to achieve finer DDR6 circuits using mSAP technology

 

[kjfatl]

The article indicates that DIMMS will not work with DDR6 at full speed, so DIMMS in their current form are on their way out in the next decade or so.
It appears that CAMM2 is a way to allow memory to be remain socketed. This is important for a lot of PC suppliers who use a common motherboard with different memory configurations.

 

[bit_user]

No.

Okay, then show me some LPDDR5 SODIMMs.

 

[thestryker]

The thing I'm mostly curious about is the different pinout for DDR5/LPDDR5. Everything other than the desktop CPUs used in laptops support both so it must be power or data delivery related.

 

[bit_user]

It appears that CAMM2 is a way to allow memory to be remain socketed.

Not exactly. CXL-connected memory could be used to supplement on-package DRAM. It'd work a little bit like existing VM or memory-compression schemes, but instead migrating pages between fast on-package DRAM and slower CXL-connected DRAM.

For post client workloads, a doubling of memory capacity via CXL would be pretty effective. Going beyond that would address fewer uses cases, however.

 

[bit_user]

The thing I'm mostly curious about is the different pinout for DDR5/LPDDR5. Everything other than the desktop CPUs used in laptops support both so it must be power or data delivery related.

Some detail on LPDDR5, here:

• https://www.anandtech.com/show/11238/ddr5-to-double-bandwidth-over-ddr4-specification-due-next-year
• https://www.anandtech.com/show/13084/samsung-announces-first-lpddr5-64gbps-data-rates

As a bonus, here are the key details of LPDDR5X:

JEDEC Publishes LPDDR5X Standard at up to 8533 Mbps

www.anandtech.com

Too bad nobody at Anandtech could give us a comparable breakdown of the just-announced LPDDR5T.

 

[Evildead_666]

I o if it's this form factor, then I'll agree it's tiny.

​

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-unveils-lpcamm-up-to-128gb-of-ddr5-in-60-less-space​

​

However, that's not the form factor that was pictured. The one pictured is Dell's, which I think isn't much smaller than a pair of SODIMMs, sitting next to each other.

I had one of the Dell laptops with camm modules in the office a few months ago.
Its about 60-75% of the total surface area of 2 sodimms, as it is longer and wider than a single sodimm, but it is much much thinner, due to there being no socket luke a sodimm.
You press the camm module down onto the connector underneath, and screw the module down to hold it in place.
It does look a lot better than two sodimms, and is a lot sturdier wrt vibrations.
Its certainly better than the 4 dimm setup they had for mobile workstations they had before.
I didnt check, but i dont think there is a 2nd module under the keyboard, which is a bonus for techies 😉

 

[bit_user]

it is much much thinner, due to there being no socket luke a sodimm.

Not only that, but it's only single-sided.

Its certainly better than the 4 dimm setup they had for mobile workstations they had before.

Dell's spec supposedly supports 256-bit data path on a single module, but I wonder if the JEDEC version retained that. I seriously doubt it did.

 

[usertests]

Okay, then show me some LPDDR5 SODIMMs.

Let's reread what I wrote:

At best CAMM halts the complete collapse of user-upgradeable memory (in mobile) that would have happened if nothing was available to replace SODIMM for DDR6.

DDR5 marks the final appearance of SODIMM in computing. DDR6 memory is confirmed to be coming within a few years (important to confirm it because maybe there won't be a DDR7 or DDR8 standard). DDR6 SODIMM is considered impossible/not feasible. In an alternate timeline without the proposal of CAMM, eventually all future laptops would ship soldered LPDDRn(X|T) memory, not upgradeable by the user (not counting a delicate desoldering/soldering operation). Instead of that happening, CAMM is now an option, and at least some systems will adopt CAMM (at a minimum we should see it in gaming laptops and various Dell products).

 

[jeremyj_83]

Why??

Greed.

 

[King_V]

Some CPUs don't support more than single-channel, like Alder Lake-N and Mendocino.

I'm going to ask what might be a dumb question . . why doesn't Intel support dual-channel on these, or why can't they add it?

Is it a power-draw issue? Cost issue? Dual-channel support has been around for a long time, I can't imagine that either of these are a major concern, even for low-power chips.

 

[usertests]

I'm going to ask what might be a dumb question . . why doesn't Intel support dual-channel on these, or why can't they add it?

Is it a power-draw issue? Cost issue? Dual-channel support has been around for a long time, I can't imagine that either of these are a major concern, even for low-power chips.

I think it increases cost (increased die area from memory controllers) and power draw. Not that it isn't worth it due to the obvious performance benefits, and the Alder Lake-N die appears to be big in relation to the massive amounts of performance that is removed. Estimated 121.72mm^2 for Alder Lake-N vs. 161.48mm^2 for Alder Lake-M with two additional P-cores, triple the graphics CUs, and dual-channel memory support. That's why high i3-N300/N305 prices are laughable next to perfectly good i3-1215U chips.

And you might remember that the previous generations of Atom, e.g. Jasper Lake, did support dual-channel memory.

Intel's next swing at the bat, "Twin Lake", is expected to be a boring refresh of Alder Lake-N. Same 8-core Gracemont, probably the same die entirely with single-channel memory support.

AMD seems to have hoodwinked a lot of people, myself included, with "dual-channel" Mendocino. But they can't sell it at prices that make sense or in the large volumes that Intel is selling Alder Lake-N, so it doesn't matter. Buy either of these things if they are around $100 and you won't be overly disappointed.