new machine, X2 3800+, have many questions

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adrenaline

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Dec 18, 2005
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hi all, ok i am soon planning to buy a new machine, and i don't have much $$ hence the overclock-the-3800+ plan. i'm admittedly a newb at this and i've been trying to read a lot on it but the more i read the more confused i am, and more worried that i'll fry my one and only $322 processor, for which there is not money for replacement. this is my planned rig:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum
2x Corsair TWINX1024-3200C2 1GB DDR400 (2GB total)
(says the timings for 4 DIMMs are 2.5-3-3, is this good enough?)
(and/or should i go for 2 1GB DIMMs?)
XFX PVT43GND GeForce 6600 GT PCI Express 128MB
(i'm debating between this and a 6600 256MB but i can't find a
comparison test for them)
WD Raptor 74GB 10k RPM
WD Caviar 250GB 16MB Cache SATA2
Pioneer 16x DVD drive
Power Supply? (i'm pretty clueless here)

I really appreciate any advice/help you can give me.
 
If your worried dont overclock it, otherwise a general tip - its not overclocking that kills - its usually the overvolting with it that kills (the biggest killer - too much vcore).

Peformance should be great reguardless of overclocking.
 
4x512 dimms will probably force the mobo to use 2T command timing which slow things down some. 2x1024's will allow 1T, but they don't overclock as well. But if you use a memory divider (set RAM to 166 and at 240fsb RAM is running at stock 200mhz/DDR400) you get the overclock of the CPU with minimal (less than 2T timing) performance loss.

I recommnd 2x1gig.

Mike.
 
Apache_lives: I'm not too worried, just uncertain as to exactly how to go about doing it. And yeah, i've read alot about the vcore, and thats what makes me nervous the most i think.

fishmahn: i don't entirely understand what your saying, but i will go with 2x 1GB.

I don't want to overclock the cpu anything fancy, just 2.3-2.4ghz.
 
I've been reading about the MSI mobo, it has a feature they call "CoreCell" which supposedly manages max overclocking and monitors all the temp and voltage factors. is this a safer bet for me than trying to do it myself manually?
 
MSI bad? really? I only went for it cause it was the only nforce4 with 4 pci slots (i use a lot of them). what do you recommend?
 
see if you can find an alternative to MSI - iv seen one hell of a lot of there products (all of them i owned, motherboard dieing or features dieing, 1 video card overheating, burner that doesnt work) infact all of em died apart from the video card (replaced the cooler) - prolly just my luck, but then again iv had better luck with worse brands.
 
i work in a compy store here and i would definatly advise finding something better than MSI...

we have our own builds based on intel gear (intel CPU and intel MOBO) and we got in a MSI to see what the diffrence was, and the mobo made approx 10% drop in performance from the build we had... no the best idea if your looking for extra performance IMO
 
Actually try and get a board by ASUS or Gigabyte or maybe ABit - they have been hammerin for years in the market with a pretty good record, dont get anything by PCChips, ESC, Elite Group and other crap companied, mobo's are what put your system together - its good to spend a few extra $$$ for extra performance, reliability, features (incl. overclocking) and future proofing (depending on what you select eg SLI capable).
 
Ok, im opting for an Asus A8N-E, does anyone know what wattage/brand of power supply i should get?

-edit-

Actually, scratch that, im gonna post in the power supply forums, but thanks for all the help everyone that responded
 
if this pc is for games, drop your 2gb to 1gb, and get a 6800gt instead of 6600. 1gb is enough to do anything you want, there is no reason for 2gb of ram. psu, a thermaltake 430w will handle it, it only cost 39.99 on newegg. if you want a more powerful one, go with antec.
 
Ok, dont do any of that. 1gb is fine today (BF2 has major improvements with 2GB so it does depend on what games you plan on playing, plan on 2gb if ya want it to last more than 6 months)

The BEST overclocking AMD board is the DFI expert here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813136166

Dont use the 3800+, use the Opteron 165 dual core with good RAM. OEM is cheaper, retail is about $30 more. It is only 1.8ghz but with 1MB L2 and clocks WAY higher with same voltages. On the factory OEM cooler it often does in excess of 2.6ghz. if ya want a single core get the 146, its in the upper 190s retail or mid 150s oem and does bout 2.8ghz on air and over 3 on water...

The best video card for the money is the 6800gs The GT isnt really made any more. They are the same exact performance but the GS is $50 less too and uses alot less power and less heat. The PSU of choice is allways antec unless your budget permits a PC Power and cooling, but you'll need a second job for that one...

2 GB kit of patriot 2.3.2.5 from newegg is about $240 and is samsung TCCD based like the other companies just alot cheaper. 2 sticks total is the best way to go. 4 sticks cause the 2T command like was stated and dont overclock nearly as well.

HideOut
 
hum dud i dont no if u have read abt one of the article i wort here not long ago abt "DOnt go for 3800+x2 But rather the 4000+ x1

well it becaus then i was building a New Pc fro a Frd n he brought the 3800+ n afer every thing n Test.. it was disserpointing.. the 3800= is not so fast.. it is just x2.. dude n since it run at 1.8 it realy run like the speed of 3000+ trust me.. i was runing hand in hand with the x2 3800 with my 3000+ i hav notest here by my side the 4000+ is only abt R100 diff so why not go for faster CPu..! n abt the GFX u want 2 get.. trust Buy the 6600GT even tho buy the 128mb ver.. caus .. Since u dont no Gt has DDr3 with relly make big different.. put it this way do u no not even the 6800 has DDr3.. only Gt has DDr3 so buying 6600Gt is like 6800 in speed n u will notest 6600Gt is very cheap now.. should we Very little diff 2 the 6600.. ya that all for me.. K hum u got A Nice Pc.. :)
 
hum dud i dont no if u have read abt one of the article i wort here not long ago abt "DOnt go for 3800+x2 But rather the 4000+ x1

well it becaus then i was building a New Pc fro a Frd n he brought the 3800+ n afer every thing n Test.. it was disserpointing.. the 3800= is not so fast.. it is just x2.. dude n since it run at 1.8 it realy run like the speed of 3000+ trust me.. i was runing hand in hand with the x2 3800 with my 3000+ i hav notest here by my side the 4000+ is only abt R100 diff so why not go for faster CPu..! n abt the GFX u want 2 get.. trust Buy the 6600GT even tho buy the 128mb ver.. caus .. Since u dont no Gt has DDr3 with relly make big different.. put it this way do u no not even the 6800 has DDr3.. only Gt has DDr3 so buying 6600Gt is like 6800 in speed n u will notest 6600Gt is very cheap now.. should we Very little diff 2 the 6600.. ya that all for me.. K hum u got A Nice Pc.. :)
Click to expand...

what benchmarks did you use to show that an xp 3000 runs on par with an x2 3800? i would like to see that, because i just recently upgraded from xp 3000 to an x2 3800 and the difference was like night and day, even at stock speed. also, what's with the random capital letters throughout your post?
 
hum dud i dont no if u have read abt one of the article i wort here not long ago abt "DOnt go for 3800+x2 But rather the 4000+ x1

well it becaus then i was building a New Pc fro a Frd n he brought the 3800+ n afer every thing n Test.. it was disserpointing.. the 3800= is not so fast.. it is just x2.. dude n since it run at 1.8 it realy run like the speed of 3000+ trust me.. i was runing hand in hand with the x2 3800 with my 3000+ i hav notest here by my side the 4000+ is only abt R100 diff so why not go for faster CPu..! n abt the GFX u want 2 get.. trust Buy the 6600GT even tho buy the 128mb ver.. caus .. Since u dont no Gt has DDr3 with relly make big different.. put it this way do u no not even the 6800 has DDr3.. only Gt has DDr3 so buying 6600Gt is like 6800 in speed n u will notest 6600Gt is very cheap now.. should we Very little diff 2 the 6600.. ya that all for me.. K hum u got A Nice Pc.. :)
Click to expand...

what benchmarks did you use to show that an xp 3000 runs on par with an x2 3800? i would like to see that, because i just recently upgraded from xp 3000 to an x2 3800 and the difference was like night and day, even at stock speed. also, what's with the random capital letters throughout your post?

I'm the same as you, I recently upgraded from a xp 3000+ to a x2 3800+ and the speed incease is really amazing but somehow I think he may have meant A64 3000+ in which case the speed difference may be harder to see unless of course you multi task.

Back to the original post...........The x2 3800+ is a good buy for the price but I would also stay clear of the msi board. Asus have always been known to make great products and their support is great. The only reason I chose DFI was due to maybe overclocking when my pc has bedded in.
 
Hey check out this web site

http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=300

It is a full how to on overclocking AMD socket 754/939 cpus. I have read the whole thing and printed it off even, now I have learned enough that im gonna oc my cpu and ram even though I have never done so before. I just need to find the time to do it. It has links to download all the tools you will need to test, benchmark, and monitor your pc, you’ll need a high speed connection because there are some big downloads, >500mb, but most are <5mb.

As for your mobo, I have an MSI K8N Neo 4 Planinum SLI, its a good board as I have had it for over a year now with no problems, but thats with no ocing. From what I have read, I would now rather go with a DFI or ASUS board with an opty 165 for overclocking but as you are on a limited budget this may not be possible, but still go with a DFI or ASUS if you want to oc.
 
Seems to be alot of misconception, under-informed, and "just because" advice being given here.

If your into the "max overclock", a DFI would be your best bet... however... the sheer choices of settings can be overwhelming for all except the hardcore, and the boards are really known not to be truly top quality is design.

For best stability, and maximum OC, go with 2 sticks of RAM only! many boards dummy down to 333hz, and 2T timings (this is just not a factor of the motherboard, it is also a factor of the AMD "onboard memory controller", and the chipset).

Any quality DDR RAM with tight timings are good; but generally, the tighter the timings at a lower listed speed, the decrease in the total over-clockability. Corsair, OCZ, and others carry great warranties and customer support. I'd stick with the Corsair... they have a great reputation, and a long one at that.

If using high end memory, many sticks require higher then normal memory voltage. Asus is well known to limit how high you can go with their BIOS settings! Gigabyte has their limitations too... and cater to the big OEMS for stability, over the enthusiast. MSI, like all manufacturers, have had their ups and downs... but you don't get to be a tier one manufacture by producing lots of crap. Some of their latest highend boards are the creme-de-la-creme. Abit has a great following... but quality has been lacking for the last 2 years due to their financials... UGi taking over will hopefully set this right.

As far as CPUs, getting a 3800+ versus an Opty 165... the 165 will do better over-all in max over-clock, and you pick-up 1mb of cache instead of 512kbs. However... AMD is trying to inhibit enthusiasts buying Optys, so the price has gone up on the lower end ones quite a bit. AND REMEMBER: your mileage will differ from your cpu and memory... every piece of silicon is unique.

I would purchase a video card with a minimum of 256mbs of onboard RAM... less and you suffer... more hasn't shown to offer any great improvement, except at super high resolutions. In fact, 512mbs of many mid-range cards actually REDUCES performance!

If your OCing on air... make sure to get a quality, high-end, heat-pipe design cpu cooler... makes a big difference!

I would use at least a quality 480watt power supply. 500-600 watt would not be out of order, but I would not go anything less then a 480.
 
does anyone know the vcore safe limit for a X2? i's forgets, its generally 0.1v or 0.2v extra (for most chips) at max but wait for someone that has an X2 to see what they say first.
Click to expand...

not sure what the safe limit is for the vcore, however i have had it pumped pretty high(or what i consider high) in the past. being the over acheiver that i am, i was pushing around 1.57v reaching a "semi" stable 2.72 clock. i wasn't feeling very comfortable with this at all, so knocked it back quite a bit. currently, i'm running 2.51 with 1.41v. i can and probably will bring the vcore down even more, at least shoot for default vcore, and maybe even undervolt... maybe.
 
A generally accepted safe voltage increase is no more then 10-15% over the recommended/default value. Using highend air cooling/water cooling/phase change cooling will all allow a higher vcore voltage, with phase change being the highest allowed. Core temp in relation to speed and vcore is the final determining factor. However... the higher the vcore voltage, the higher the probability of cpu life decreasing, sometimes in exponential amounts.
 
I agree w/ zeekle, save the $ on that raptor and put it into a better vid card. You would see more performance increase in games with that, and pretty small increase in anything w/ that raptor. Otherwise looks good.
 
You'd probably be better getting something like 2 Western Digital 250GB drives and putting them in a RAID array than going with the raptor, as least as far as storage and price efficiency is concerned. I understand the need for a less than fantastic video card too. Look around, the ATI X800s are running around $100-150, and are a pretty good deal. If you're going to spend more, look for a 7800 GT or the new 7900 GT.
 
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