[SOLVED] New PC Build, €2000 budget, Please help

[HardHard]

Approximate Purchase Date: Black Friday/Cyber Monday, Waiting for good deals to bring the system in budget.

Budget Range: € 2000 - € 2200 (Can extend only if absolutely necessary)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: VMs, Gaming, Hash Cracking

Are you buying a monitor: Yes

Parts to Upgrade: Complete New Build needed

Do you need to buy OS: No

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Can you suggest where to get best prices in Germany? (Mindfactory? Amazon?)

Location: Hamburg, Germany

Parts Preferences: Ryzen 9 preferred, GTX2070Super should suffice

Overclocking:Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: Maybe

Your Monitor Resolution: For now, one 4K monitor, would add other monitors later on.

Additional Comments:Have Keyboard and Mouse, would need rest of the build.

 

[HardHard]

Also, is 2070Super the best option, or 5700XT beats it?

 

[jeremyj_83]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (€599.00 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: ASRock X570 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (€170.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€329.99 @ Corsair DE)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€61.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Intel 660p Series 2.048 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€228.33 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB Video Card (€379.00 @ Mindfactory)
Case: Fractal Design Define C ATX Mid Tower Case (€73.68 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€99.90 @ Caseking)
Monitor: BenQ EW3270U 31.5" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor (€266.67 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €2208.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 02:51 CET+0100
With a 12c/24t CPU and 64GB RAM you can do pretty good on the VM front. You can install your OS and VMware Workstation on the 500GB SSD and then have the VMs and games installed on the 2TB SSD. The 5700XT is only about 5% on average slower than the 2070 Super, but is 20% cheaper.

 

[HardHard]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor (€599.00 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: ASRock X570 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard (€170.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 64 GB (2 x 32 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€329.99 @ Corsair DE)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€61.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Intel 660p Series 2.048 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€228.33 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB Video Card (€379.00 @ Mindfactory)
Case: Fractal Design Define C ATX Mid Tower Case (€73.68 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€99.90 @ Caseking)
Monitor: BenQ EW3270U 31.5" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor (€266.67 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Total: €2208.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 02:51 CET+0100
With a 12c/24t CPU and 64GB RAM you can do pretty good on the VM front. You can install your OS and VMware Workstation on the 500GB SSD and then have the VMs and games installed on the 2TB SSD. The 5700XT is only about 5% on average slower than the 2070 Super, but is 20% cheaper.

This looks good. So, 5700XT is worth it.
Thank you.

 

[Hellfire13]

This should be better...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | €599.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard | €169.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | €77.70 @ Mindfactory
Storage | Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €105.74 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB WINDFORCE Video Card | €607.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
Case | Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case | €54.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €113.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Monitor | LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor | €279.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €2007.32
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 18:49 CET+0100 |

 

[King Dranzer]

Here is the list:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor (€329.00 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 GAMING X ATX AM4 Motherboard (€180.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€73.89 @ Alternate)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€92.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB WINDFORCE Video Card (€607.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Phanteks PH-ES614PC_BK ATX Full Tower Case (€99.90 @ Caseking)
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€178.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Monitor: Dell S2716DG 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor (€482.03 @ Senetic)
Total: €2043.71
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 18:36 CET+0100

The performance you can get for that budget.
I recommend sticking with 1440p monitor instead of going with 4K. For now there is no GPU which can really push 4K on titles. Even at 1440p I recommend sticking with single monitor unless you upgrade your GPU.

 

[HardHard]

This should be better...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | €599.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard | €169.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | Patriot Viper 4 Blackout 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | €77.70 @ Mindfactory
Storage | Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €105.74 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB WINDFORCE Video Card | €607.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
Case | Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case | €54.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €113.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Monitor | LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor | €279.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €2007.32
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 18:49 CET+0100 |

2080Ti in €2000, that's good. I can squeeze in 32gigs RAM in there and it should be good to go.

Here is the list:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor (€329.00 @ Caseking)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 GAMING X ATX AM4 Motherboard (€180.99 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (€73.89 @ Alternate)
Storage: Samsung 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (€92.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB WINDFORCE Video Card (€607.00 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Phanteks PH-ES614PC_BK ATX Full Tower Case (€99.90 @ Caseking)
Power Supply: Corsair RMi 1000 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply (€178.90 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Monitor: Dell S2716DG 27.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor (€482.03 @ Senetic)
Total: €2043.71
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 18:36 CET+0100

The performance you can get for that budget.
I recommend sticking with 1440p monitor instead of going with 4K. For now there is no GPU which can really push 4K on titles. Even at 1440p I recommend sticking with single monitor unless you upgrade your GPU.

The reason I'd like to have a 4k monitor as for a first couple of months, I won't be gaming much on this unless I setup some more things. This would mostly act as my workstation for running multiple VMs and certain computations, and thought having a 4K display would give me some more room on there to display.

 

[Hellfire13]

2080Ti in €2000, that's good. I can squeeze in 32gigs RAM in there and it should be good to go.

Absolutely you can do that. 3900x+2080ti is the best combination you can get right now. 32gb of high quality and high speed RAM with tighter timings can give it so much more longevity...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | €599.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard | €169.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | €185.69 @ Mindfactory
Storage | Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €105.74 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB WINDFORCE Video Card | €607.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
Case | Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case | €54.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €113.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Monitor | LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor | €279.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €2115.31
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 22:23 CET+0100 |

 

[EndEffeKt_24]

Absolutely you can do that. 3900x+2080ti is the best combination you can get right now. 32gb of high quality and high speed RAM with tighter timings can give it so much more longevity...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | €599.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard | €169.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | €185.69 @ Mindfactory
Storage | Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €105.74 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11 GB WINDFORCE Video Card | €607.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
Case | Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case | €54.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €113.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Monitor | LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor | €279.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €2115.31
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 22:23 CET+0100 |

Hey mate,
your setup is a bit misleading. I was tripping over that insanely good price for that 2080ti. It refers to a hacked 3. party seller on amazon. That machine should be like 500 euro more expensive.
If the primary focus is vm and work I would focus on the cores. 64gb of fast RAM, R9 3900x a good motherboard and then maybe 5700xt. I would not downgrade the core parts for a workstation just to get that 2080ti.

 

[Hellfire13]

Hey mate,
your setup is a bit misleading. I was tripping over that insanely good price for that 2080ti. It refers to a hacked 3. party seller on amazon. That machine should be like 500 euro more expensive.
If the primary focus is vm and work I would focus on the cores. 64gb of fast RAM, R9 3900x a good motherboard and then maybe 5700xt. I would not downgrade the core parts for a workstation just to get that 2080ti.

You mean they are all hacked...
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=424&sort=price&page=1&X=0,82222

LOL

 

[EndEffeKt_24]

You mean they are all hacked...
https://de.pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=424&sort=price&page=1&X=0,82222

LOL

Go ahead and buy one.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Go ahead and buy one.

Nothing shows up at those prices for the 2080Ti anymore.

 

[Hellfire13]

Nothing shows up at those prices for the 2080Ti anymore.

Discount period has expired. 2070 Super is still viable...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | €599.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard | €172.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | €184.69 @ Mindfactory
Storage | Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €105.68 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB GAMING OC 3X Video Card | €545.70 @ Mindfactory
Case | Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case | €54.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €113.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Monitor | LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor | €279.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €2055.95
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-19 15:25 CET+0100 |

 

[jeremyj_83]

Discount period has expired. 2070 Super is still viable...

PCPartPicker Part List

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
CPU | AMD Ryzen 9 3900X 3.8 GHz 12-Core Processor | €599.00 @ Caseking
Motherboard | MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard | €172.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Memory | G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory | €184.69 @ Mindfactory
Storage | Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive | €105.68 @ Amazon Deutschland
Video Card | Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB GAMING OC 3X Video Card | €545.70 @ Mindfactory
Case | Fractal Design Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case | €54.90 @ Caseking
Power Supply | SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply | €113.99 @ Amazon Deutschland
Monitor | LG 27UD58-B 27.0" 3840x2160 60 Hz Monitor | €279.00 @ Amazon Deutschland
| Prices include shipping, taxes, rebates, and discounts |
| Total | €2055.95
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-19 15:25 CET+0100 |

2070 Super isn't worth the added cost over the 5700XT. The extra 150 Euro can be used for 64GB RAM vs 32GB RAM to be able to run VMs with more RAM. Also with doing gaming and VMs having more than a single 1TB SSD is a better idea.

 

[Hellfire13]

2070 Super isn't worth the added cost over the 5700XT. The extra 150 Euro can be used for 64GB RAM vs 32GB RAM to be able to run VMs with more RAM. Also with doing gaming and VMs having more than a single 1TB SSD is a better idea.

Actually it is more worthy than spending the same 150 Euro on RAM, specially when rendering @4k more graphical power is required. 32gb RAM is already way overkill for VMs. You dont balance a build like that. Storage, can be added anytime down the line...
https://www.techspot.com/review/1902-geforce-rtx-2070-super-vs-radeon-5700-xt/
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2070S-Super-vs-AMD-RX-5700-XT/4048vs4045

 

[jeremyj_83]

Actually it is more worthy than spending the same 150 Euro on RAM, specially when rendering @4k more graphical power is required. 32gb RAM is already way overkill for VMs. You dont balance a build like that. Storage, can be added anytime down the line...
https://www.techspot.com/review/1902-geforce-rtx-2070-super-vs-radeon-5700-xt/
https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-2070S-Super-vs-AMD-RX-5700-XT/4048vs4045

"System Usage from Most to Least Important: VMs, Gaming, Hash Cracking " With the primary usage being VMs then more RAM and CPU cores is most important. Make the consideration that VMware Workstation is being used then from the 32GB RAM you will need 8GB just for Windows OS that it runs on so that leaves you with 24GB RAM for the VMs. If these are all small Ubuntu VMs then 24GB is a lot, if these are Windows based VMs you really need 6-8GB/VM minimum so that means you have 3-4 VMs that you can run without ballooning, swapping, etc... I can tell you from experience, I just happen to be a VMware Administrator, that even on ESXi performance starts to drop quite quickly once you start to over provision RAM. Not to mention with RAM over provisioning you will have swapping occurring which adds a lot of extra writes to your SSD.

The difference between the 2070 Super and 5700XT at 4K according to techspot was 9%. In the 13 games they showed with full graphs there were only 2 titles where the 2070 Super went above 60fps and the 5700XT didn't. All the other titles either both were blow 60fps or both were above 60fps. This can easily be worked around by using a FreeSync monitor that has a variable refresh rate more than 15Hz.

 

[Hellfire13]

"System Usage from Most to Least Important: VMs, Gaming, Hash Cracking " With the primary usage being VMs then more RAM and CPU cores is most important. Make the consideration that VMware Workstation is being used then from the 32GB RAM you will need 8GB just for Windows OS that it runs on so that leaves you with 24GB RAM for the VMs. If these are all small Ubuntu VMs then 24GB is a lot, if these are Windows based VMs you really need 6-8GB/VM minimum so that means you have 3-4 VMs that you can run without ballooning, swapping, etc... I can tell you from experience, I just happen to be a VMware Administrator, that even on ESXi performance starts to drop quite quickly once you start to over provision RAM. Not to mention with RAM over provisioning you will have swapping occurring which adds a lot of extra writes to your SSD.

The difference between the 2070 Super and 5700XT at 4K according to techspot was 9%. In the 13 games they showed with full graphs there were only 2 titles where the 2070 Super went above 60fps and the 5700XT didn't. All the other titles either both were blow 60fps or both were above 60fps. This can easily be worked around by using a FreeSync monitor that has a variable refresh rate more than 15Hz.

With a simple hypervisor you just tell the hypervisor how much RAM each VM gets, That amount is deducted from the available RAM on your host system when the VM starts and is "in use" by the hypervisor as long as the VM is running. The OS running in the VM works as it always does to allocate RAM to processes and to OS uses. The old Microsoft "Virtual PC", which was widely used for running "XP Mode" within Windows 7, works that way. VirtualBox does also. In both, if you configure a VM for 1 GB RAM and start it, your host suddenly has 1 GB less RAM "available". It's usually not very efficient in its use of RAM, but it's simple to implement.

With a more complex hypervisor, the amount you allocate to the VM is simply an upper limit. The guest OS sees that much RAM as "total" but behind the scenes some or even most of what the guest thinks is RAM could be virtual as far as the host is concerned. This is particularly true of what Windows calls "Free" or "Zeroed" RAM in the guest - since it has no content of interest, there is no need to store it anywhere. But even RAM that the guest sees as "in use" could be virtual in the host, with contents in a pagefile or a mapped file.

The guest OS continues to handle RAM as it always does, but if the guest OS refers to some of that not-yet-really-there RAM, the hypervisor can allocate more actual RAM to the guest. (In other words, a memory reference that seems to work without a page fault in the guest might incur a page fault in the host.) Within the total available RAM and the configured limits, the hypervisor adjusts the amount of RAM that's "in" the guest OS to try to keep its page fault rate in the host low.

This is generally called "thin provisioning". It's more complex to implement in the hypervisor but results in more efficient use of the host's RAM.



As for 2070...
"Nvidia’s ray tracing tech demos may look impressive, but how good is the technology in action? We tested real-time ray tracing for ourselves with Battlefield 5 – the very first game to actively support the technology.

In the snow-blanketed landscapes of Battlefield 5’s single player experience Nordlys, ray tracing truly excelled. Mountain ranges could be seen in the reflection of a frozen lake, while flames glinted off the metallic surface of machine guns, even as snow thundered down."
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/nvidia-ray-tracing-3638206

 

[jeremyj_83]

With a simple hypervisor you just tell the hypervisor how much RAM each VM gets, That amount is deducted from the available RAM on your host system when the VM starts and is "in use" by the hypervisor as long as the VM is running. The OS running in the VM works as it always does to allocate RAM to processes and to OS uses. The old Microsoft "Virtual PC", which was widely used for running "XP Mode" within Windows 7, works that way. VirtualBox does also. In both, if you configure a VM for 1 GB RAM and start it, your host suddenly has 1 GB less RAM "available". It's usually not very efficient in its use of RAM, but it's simple to implement.

With a more complex hypervisor, the amount you allocate to the VM is simply an upper limit. The guest OS sees that much RAM as "total" but behind the scenes some or even most of what the guest thinks is RAM could be virtual as far as the host is concerned. This is particularly true of what Windows calls "Free" or "Zeroed" RAM in the guest - since it has no content of interest, there is no need to store it anywhere. But even RAM that the guest sees as "in use" could be virtual in the host, with contents in a pagefile or a mapped file.

The guest OS continues to handle RAM as it always does, but if the guest OS refers to some of that not-yet-really-there RAM, the hypervisor can allocate more actual RAM to the guest. (In other words, a memory reference that seems to work without a page fault in the guest might incur a page fault in the host.) Within the total available RAM and the configured limits, the hypervisor adjusts the amount of RAM that's "in" the guest OS to try to keep its page fault rate in the host low.

This is generally called "thin provisioning". It's more complex to implement in the hypervisor but results in more efficient use of the host's RAM.

Maybe you missed my last post where I said I am a VMware Administrator, actually a Senior VMware Administrator. That means my job is working in production virtual environments and with type 1 hypervisors, I have dabbled a little bit with Hyper-V.

https://phoenixnap.com/kb/what-is-hypervisor-type-1-2
Any hypervisor that you install on top of Windows, ex Workstation, VirtualBox, etc... is a type 2 hypervisor. A type 2 hypervisor will take any RAM you allocate to the VM out of free/usable RAM by the host OS, even if that VM isn't using that RAM it cannot be shared with other VMs or the host OS. That means if you have 3x 8GB RAM VMs your host OS already has 24GB RAM being taken up and only 8GB left for the host OS. If you were to install another VM with 8GB RAM and try to have 4x 8GB RAM VMs running at once the system will crash.

A type 1 hypervisor on the other hand is able to share RAM dynamically among the guest VMs. If you are running ESXi with 32GB RAM you can have 64GB RAM allocated to running VMs, you will just have ballooning, memory compression, and swapping going on. All of those can adversely affect the performance of the VM. I know from first hand experience with that as I upgraded a couple hosts from 512GB RAM to 1TB RAM. While I was able to migrate from that cluster to the other host to keep all VMs running, as soon as the VMs started using more RAM than the host had available performance started to drop on the VMs. Luckily it didn't drop so far as to have things timeout, but that is a possibility with going to far over total physical RAM.

Thin-provisioning has NOTHING to do with RAM. Thin-provisioning deals with storage. What happens there is I create a 100GB disk but only use 20GB of it. With thin-provisioning the OS sees a 100GB disk but on the storage appliance it only takes up 20GB, but will dynamically expand using more space as the disk fills up. One thing about thin-provisioning is that it can always expand but it cannot always shrink. That means that if I download a large file and am using up 30GB the minimum the storage appliance will see is 30GB from now on if it is on a type 2 hypervisor.

What I think you were trying to get at with thin-provisioning is a technology in Hyper-V called Dynamic Memory https://www.fastvue.co/tmgreporter/blog/understanding-hyper-v-dynamic-memory-dynamic-ram/ This is where you set a min RAM, max RAM, startup RAM, etc... While this sounds great, in reality unless you are in a very small environment it is very hard to use/manage. Hence why I have yet to meet a Hyper-V admin that uses it in their clusters.

 

[Hellfire13]

Maybe you missed my last post where I said I am a VMware Administrator, actually a Senior VMware Administrator. That means my job is working in production virtual environments and with type 1 hypervisors, I have dabbled a little bit with Hyper-V.

https://phoenixnap.com/kb/what-is-hypervisor-type-1-2
Any hypervisor that you install on top of Windows, ex Workstation, VirtualBox, etc... is a type 2 hypervisor. A type 2 hypervisor will take any RAM you allocate to the VM out of free/usable RAM by the host OS, even if that VM isn't using that RAM it cannot be shared with other VMs or the host OS. That means if you have 3x 8GB RAM VMs your host OS already has 24GB RAM being taken up and only 8GB left for the host OS. If you were to install another VM with 8GB RAM and try to have 4x 8GB RAM VMs running at once the system will crash.

A type 1 hypervisor on the other hand is able to share RAM dynamically among the guest VMs. If you are running ESXi with 32GB RAM you can have 64GB RAM allocated to running VMs, you will just have ballooning, memory compression, and swapping going on. All of those can adversely affect the performance of the VM. I know from first hand experience with that as I upgraded a couple hosts from 512GB RAM to 1TB RAM. While I was able to migrate from that cluster to the other host to keep all VMs running, as soon as the VMs started using more RAM than the host had available performance started to drop on the VMs. Luckily it didn't drop so far as to have things timeout, but that is a possibility with going to far over total physical RAM.

Thin-provisioning has NOTHING to do with RAM. Thin-provisioning deals with storage. What happens there is I create a 100GB disk but only use 20GB of it. With thin-provisioning the OS sees a 100GB disk but on the storage appliance it only takes up 20GB, but will dynamically expand using more space as the disk fills up. One thing about thin-provisioning is that it can always expand but it cannot always shrink. That means that if I download a large file and am using up 30GB the minimum the storage appliance will see is 30GB from now on if it is on a type 2 hypervisor.

What I think you were trying to get at with thin-provisioning is a technology in Hyper-V called Dynamic Memory https://www.fastvue.co/tmgreporter/blog/understanding-hyper-v-dynamic-memory-dynamic-ram/ This is where you set a min RAM, max RAM, startup RAM, etc... While this sounds great, in reality unless you are in a very small environment it is very hard to use/manage. Hence why I have yet to meet a Hyper-V admin that uses it in their clusters.

Yes, and you know zero about gaming requirements. On the contrary I am a professional gamer and know a thing about it or two. This is going nowhere, rather in circles. Absolute waste of time. OP has enough data to make an informed decision. I have argued with enough of them(your kind) about this and i aint gonna waste any more time.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Yes, and you know zero about gaming requirements. On the contrary I am a professional gamer and know a thing about it or two. This is going nowhere, rather in circles. Absolute waste of time. OP has enough data to make an informed decision. I have argued with enough of them(your kind) about this and i aint gonna waste any more time.

While I might not be a "professional gamer," I know plenty about gaming requirements and have built dozens of gaming computers over the last 20 years. Had his primary use case been to game then the build would have been 32GB RAM and figure out how to get a 2080 Super in there. However, that isn't the case here as the primary use will be for VMs. The issue is you put the priority of the build you suggested on the secondary use case. Will your design be faster in gaming, yes it will. Will it be able to run as many VMs, which is OPs primary use case, no it won't.

 

[Hellfire13]

While I might not be a "professional gamer," I know plenty about gaming requirements and have built dozens of gaming computers over the last 20 years. Had his primary use case been to game then the build would have been 32GB RAM and figure out how to get a 2080 Super in there. However, that isn't the case here as the primary use will be for VMs. The issue is you put the priority of the build you suggested on the secondary use case. Will your design be faster in gaming, yes it will. Will it be able to run as many VMs, which is OPs primary use case, no it won't.

Yes it will. I am done with this. Cheers...

 

[HardHard]

Guys, you don't need to fight, chill.
I have selected the best answer according to my requirements, and as black friday/cyber monday deals have started popping up, I'll slowly start ordering items, and with the remaining budget in the end, will either go with 5700XT/2070S/2080Ti according to the price.
Rest all of the specs in the chosen best answer are best for my tasks.

 

[HardHard]

Hey @Hellfire13, @jeremyj_83 @King Dranzer, I have started to order parts now, and one thing struck me was that all the motherboards suggested here are performing really poor in the thermal department: View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/czjaja/hardware_unboxed_budget_x570_vrm_thermal/eyyo3ju/


MSI x570-a is like one of the worst in this regard. Any good budget suggestions then for the MB?

 

[Hellfire13]

Hey @Hellfire13, @jeremyj_83 @King Dranzer, I have started to order parts now, and one thing struck me was that all the motherboards suggested here are performing really poor in the thermal department: View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/czjaja/hardware_unboxed_budget_x570_vrm_thermal/eyyo3ju/


MSI x570-a is like one of the worst in this regard. Any good budget suggestions then for the MB?

Those reviews vary with different reviewers. For exp...
"If you're happy with a stock speed CPU and just want to get on the PCIe 4.0 bandwagon, then the MSI X570-A Pro has everything you need to build a decent X570 system, and you don't need to worry about its chipset fan being too noisy or whiny either."
https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/motherboards/msi-x570-a-pro-review/9/
It will do the job if you are not overclocking the CPU. But if you want to be safer and/or thinking about OC, you can go for one of these...
https://premiumbuilds.com/motherboards/best-motherboards-for-ryzen-9-3900x/

 

[King Dranzer]

Hey @Hellfire13, @jeremyj_83 @King Dranzer, I have started to order parts now, and one thing struck me was that all the motherboards suggested here are performing really poor in the thermal department: View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/czjaja/hardware_unboxed_budget_x570_vrm_thermal/eyyo3ju/


MSI x570-a is like one of the worst in this regard. Any good budget suggestions then for the MB?

Lot many reviews like that should be only considered relevant when one is set on pushing the system to limit squeezing every small drop of performance out of it. For general usage even with regular OC for 99% of consumers that becomes irrelevant. You wont be pushing that high limit of current through board unless you plan on going for full-custom loop, in which case you will be spending very high on the rig and most of the recommended hardware by me, Hellfire13 or jeremyj_83 will change accordingly.