New Playfields $200 US + tax & shipping

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Wow this is a tough bunch of skeptics on rgp. I am looking for NO MONEY
UPFRONT, you can bailout at the completion of Devil's Dare Prototype's
playfield if not satisfied. All those owner's of the nearly 5000 made,
who have wornout or poor playfields, or anyone who is interested in
very low production, maybe less than a handfull the way things are
going, please make yourselfs known to me by email or rgp. Today I met
with Greg Walker, showed him what I have done, not the way he would do
it, but it is slowly moving along. So this is the time if you would
like to see specific art for this game, I will try to accomodate
requests. I will try to keep to $200 US unless license fees are not in
line, if that is the case everyone will know the reason. For anyone who
doesn't know me my mug shot article is on Pinball News, & will be
seeking future unpopulated Gottlieb playfields in GameRoom Magazine &
Mr.Pinball Parts Wanted Ads. Thanks again to Robert Fesjian & Steve
Young for allowing the prototype playfields to be allowed to happen,
they will have the final say on wether Gottlieb name & branding is used
as official prototype. Thanks John Greatwich

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

What are you actually doing? You keep posting these things that really
don't make any coherent sense when taken out of context.

Can you explain what the exact product is you are delivering?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

New playfield to use existing playfield parts for Devil's Dare. A brand
new prototype(s) with different art, & light lenses. Same layout, to
use existing rules & scoring. I am copying the layout, all holes etc.
for new Baltic Birch playfields. Light lenses from Steve Young -
Specials, artwork to be done on commercial film, & clear coated 1-2
coats. Hopefully leading to new plastics, backglass, & cabinent art,
for complete prototype game.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It took me awhile to figure out what he's doing also. He's planning to
"re-theme" existing games. Maybe he is planning an Egyptian theme for
DD. He wants to make new playfield art, new plastics, and new
blackglass art. He's starting with the playfield only. Now, by the
time you factor in the cost of plastics & glass, this could be pretty
expensive. The art has to be *really good* for this to be worth doing.

That said, I can really imagine a slightly raised pyramid for the
center island in that game. John, you could design 4 pieces of
plastic that glue together to form a pyramid rising to just below the
playfield glass on that game. That would change the game's look
tremendously.

I know there are people who like DD art the way it is. I do too; but
sometimes, more is... more. DD is inherently a good game, regardless
of the theme, so it's just as well to try this out. (and I have a
spare DD with a shot playfield.) I do suspect there isn't a big
market - but probably this is a fun thing for him to do.

 

[henri]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:26:47 -0700, greatwichjohn wrote:

> New playfield to use existing playfield parts for Devil's Dare. A brand
> new prototype(s) with different art, & light lenses. Same layout, to
> use existing rules & scoring. I am copying the layout, all holes etc.
> for new Baltic Birch playfields. Light lenses from Steve Young -
> Specials, artwork to be done on commercial film, & clear coated 1-2
> coats. Hopefully leading to new plastics, backglass, & cabinent art,
> for complete prototype game.

why not start by making the silk screen, sanding down an existing pf and
re-printing it?

henri

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I will be online the next couple of hours, & later tonight. To clarify
I am making brand new replacement playfields for Electronic Gottlieb
Pinballs starting with Devil's Dare, new art & light lenses (which may
be different shapes), it is considered a prototype since it is
different. The go ahead has been given to proceed by Robert & Steve who
have the Gottlieb rights. Steve suggested that my idea of making from
the ground up prototypes, may not be excepted for different reasons, &
certain parts not available. So playfield first, if enough interest
possibly conversion kit made available. So here is the chance to get
something unique, possibly rare, the way things are going. I am a
dedicated pinball nut who is trying to make affordable prototypes, for
Gottlieb games!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Ok, I understand now. Sounds interesting. But I think if you use the
phrase "conversion kit" instead of "prototype game" everyone will
instantly know what you mean.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It started out as Prototype Games, which Robert & Steve seem ok with, &
since parts not available to make complete game from scratch, plus
other approval hassles. Since new artwork playfield. If this gets ok'd
then conversion kit would be made available if ok'd by them. I know
this is very confusing for people, but I understand there rights to ok
this project, & protect Gottlieb name. The threads are coming up at
random times, 9. was earlier.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Call it what ever you like, conversion kit for Gottlieb Devil's Dare if
this is easier on everyone. I still would call it prototypes because it
is different, ie. art work, light lenses, new wood playfield, new
paint, new graphics overlay, which in my discussions with Robert &
Steve feel ok with. As for costs I will try to make as affordable as
possible.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks Donnie, hopefully people can visit Pinball News for more info,
or look at what I have said here since August. I would like to believe
that this is possible, have support so far from Robert Fesjian & Steve
Young for prototypes. They difinetly would like to see some new
Gottlieb Product introduced, maybe a spring board for new products &
interest. I am definitely not in this for the money, just trying to get
new stuff out there to keep games going. Hopefully licensed product &
approved & more to follow. Next is Count Down & Cleopatra.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Thanks but it seems like prototype, if you look it up is something
unique, as in new, like different art, light lenses, construction. So
far the three of us have no problem with Prototype, only others, it is
a conversion kit if it gets to that point. If it is something new, its
a prototype, even though it is using existing layout & parts. This is a
non production run part, very few to be produced, there is no factory,
I am doing this on my own, the way it is going there will be a couple
produced.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

No, sorry. Diane was correct. By your reasoning my Funhouse must be a
prototype because it's different than my Pinbot? See what I mean? You
are making a new layout for an existing game. That, my friend, is a
conversion. Many conversion kits were made by Gottlieb for the off shore
markets but they never called them prototypes.
I applaud your effort and hope you do well. You will do better once you
get the terminology correct

greatwichjohn@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thanks but it seems like prototype, if you look it up is something
> unique, as in new, like different art, light lenses, construction. So
> far the three of us have no problem with Prototype, only others, it is
> a conversion kit if it gets to that point. If it is something new, its
> a prototype, even though it is using existing layout & parts. This is a
> non production run part, very few to be produced, there is no factory,
> I am doing this on my own, the way it is going there will be a couple
> produced.
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

John,

This is going to be beat into the ground.. but the word prototype is not the
word you're looking for.

A prototype is one of the samples made before a production run is started,
what you're proposing are conversion kits. In your line of conversion kits,
the first few will be "prototypes" as you work the bugs out.

A single summary in a day would be far more effective then the many postings
that you put up in a day all with almost the same info and only minor
variations.

This isn't meant as a slam, it's meant to help you get the rhythm of how to
have your postings clearer to more people and thus to help your project
proceed further if possible.

Diane


<greatwichjohn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125788699.736929.161890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I will be online the next couple of hours, & later tonight. To clarify
> I am making brand new replacement playfields for Electronic Gottlieb
> Pinballs starting with Devil's Dare, new art & light lenses (which may
> be different shapes), it is considered a prototype since it is
> different. The go ahead has been given to proceed by Robert & Steve who
> have the Gottlieb rights. Steve suggested that my idea of making from
> the ground up prototypes, may not be excepted for different reasons, &
> certain parts not available. So playfield first, if enough interest
> possibly conversion kit made available. So here is the chance to get
> something unique, possibly rare, the way things are going. I am a
> dedicated pinball nut who is trying to make affordable prototypes, for
> Gottlieb games!
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Right. Someone did this for Baby Pac Man and it turned out pretty
nice. MUCH nicer than an overlay that's clearcoated, which is what
this sounds like it will be...

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:42:40 -0700, henri <pinball@qais.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:26:47 -0700, greatwichjohn wrote:
>
>> New playfield to use existing playfield parts for Devil's Dare. A brand
>> new prototype(s) with different art, & light lenses. Same layout, to
>> use existing rules & scoring. I am copying the layout, all holes etc.
>> for new Baltic Birch playfields. Light lenses from Steve Young -
>> Specials, artwork to be done on commercial film, & clear coated 1-2
>> coats. Hopefully leading to new plastics, backglass, & cabinent art,
>> for complete prototype game.
>
>why not start by making the silk screen, sanding down an existing pf and
>re-printing it?
>
>henri

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On Sun, 04 Sep, greatwichjohn@hotmail.com wrote:
> Call it what ever you like, conversion kit for Gottlieb Devil's Dare if
> this is easier on everyone. I still would call it prototypes because it
> is different, ie. art work, light lenses, new wood playfield, new
> paint, new graphics overlay, which in my discussions with Robert &
> Steve feel ok with. As for costs I will try to make as affordable as
> possible.

Add me to the list of people that had pretty much *no* idea what you were
doing until this "conversion kit" clarification was made.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I will say it again Prototype, it is new, it is different, it will fit
original game & have same layout. It is limited numbers, it will
probably be hand made, not cnc. If the experts Steve Young & Robert
Fesjian, tell me that this is the wrong word, don't use it, it's gone.
I understand conversion kit, which would be what the whole package
would be if allowed. So for now it still is prototype, there is no
factory production.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Can he call it a "prototype conversion kit" for an existing game or is
that incorrect also?

Dave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Okay well at least now we know (finally) what you're talking about. But to
beat a dead horse, this type of thing has been done many times in the past
(going back at least to WWII arcade games a'la "Kill the Jap") and it's
always been known as a conversion kit. But it's your project so you call it
whatever you want ;-)

What I don't get, is why do you need *any* permission from Gottlieb LLC or
Steve Young or anyone else to do this? You won't be reproducing any
existing artwork, or *making* anything that someone else holds a patent or
copyright to, will you?

Randy

<greatwichjohn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125829463.940281.137070@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>I will say it again Prototype, it is new, it is different, it will fit
> original game & have same layout. It is limited numbers, it will
> probably be hand made, not cnc. If the experts Steve Young & Robert
> Fesjian, tell me that this is the wrong word, don't use it, it's gone.
> I understand conversion kit, which would be what the whole package
> would be if allowed. So for now it still is prototype, there is no
> factory production.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

sigh... I was trying to help, bud. If you still feel the need to stick
to incorrect terminology, fine. Good luck on your venture.

greatwichjohn@hotmail.com wrote:
> I will say it again Prototype, it is new, it is different, it will fit
> original game & have same layout. It is limited numbers, it will
> probably be hand made, not cnc. If the experts Steve Young & Robert
> Fesjian, tell me that this is the wrong word, don't use it, it's gone.
> I understand conversion kit, which would be what the whole package
> would be if allowed. So for now it still is prototype, there is no
> factory production.
>

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

>You're USING THE WRONG WORDS!

Korn's right.

>You will do better once you
>get the terminology correct

Cliffy's right.

You would be right calling it a proto if you were in a bubble, but
you're not. The fact is, Devil's Dare probably DID have one or more
prototypes before it was released. Coming up with new artwork for an
existing playfield is not a prototype. Making a whole new playfield
layout for a Gottlieb widebody and making it plug-n-play IS a prototype
PLAYFIELD for a Gottlieb wide body (it has nothing to do with DD other
than being able to drop it into one).

The best comparison I can think of: You have a Revenge from Mars. You
have a second playfield that is completely defferent (StarWarsEp1).
That is a SWE1 conversion playfield.

If you're changing the artwork only, it's not even a conversion,
really. Just a repainted playfield.

IMHO!

-cody
CARGPB#4

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I would say that's still incorrect because the real prototypes were
made by Gottlieb before the game went into production. The term
"prototype" (in the pinball industry relating to a production model
game) points to early efforts by the manufacturer, not one-offs made
later by hobbiests. Now if he was recreating the real prototypes, they
should be called "reproduction prototypes". I think he should drop the
term prototype altogether for marketing purposes.

Say he makes one of these one-offs and it needs some tweaking. Then
that first field becomes HIS prototype for HIS project (not A prototype
or THE prototype), but still changes nothing regarding the history of
DD.

-cody
CARGPB#4

>Can he call it a "prototype conversion kit" for an existing game or is
>that incorrect also?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

greatwichjohn@hotmail.com wrote in news:1125829463.940281.137070
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:

> I will say it again Prototype, it is new, it is different, it will fit
> original game & have same layout. It is limited numbers, it will
> probably be hand made, not cnc. If the experts Steve Young & Robert
> Fesjian, tell me that this is the wrong word, don't use it, it's gone.
> I understand conversion kit, which would be what the whole package
> would be if allowed. So for now it still is prototype, there is no
> factory production.

And you wonder why ABSOLUTELY NO ONE had any idea what you were doing, and
you were getting ZERO bounce out of your posts?

You're USING THE WRONG WORDS! Hell, I'd like to call my Dodge a Ferrari,
but anyone who knows what they're talking about will tell me that I'm using
the wrong word! And more to the point, if I went to _sell_ my Dodge and
listed it as a Ferrari, I'd be guilty of fraud.

It's a conversion. You can call it a prototype to your wife, but to the
_rest_ _of_ _the_ _entire_ _world_, it's a conversion. Speak of it that
way and _everyone_ will know what you're talking about. Call it a
"prototype" and _nobody_ will. It's JUST THAT SIMPLE.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Unfortunately he's someone who just doesn't get it. I posted this on Aug
9..."Again, you'd be better of calling it a conversion kit which is what
they will be, prototype means something else" but he still doesn't get it.
It's not just a question of dictionary definition, it's accepted industry
terminilogy.

The other comment posted at that time is it looks like an extremely limited
market. Doesn't look like that has quite sunk in either. Plus these posts
are now repetitive and tedious on top of confusing. I'd rather put my money
on the BBB horse.

GRY

"Cliffy" <crinear@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MKednaTVmNWeg4beRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> sigh... I was trying to help, bud. If you still feel the need to stick to
> incorrect terminology, fine. Good luck on your venture.
>
> greatwichjohn@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I will say it again Prototype, it is new, it is different, it will fit
>> original game & have same layout. It is limited numbers, it will
>> probably be hand made, not cnc. If the experts Steve Young & Robert
>> Fesjian, tell me that this is the wrong word, don't use it, it's gone.
>> I understand conversion kit, which would be what the whole package
>> would be if allowed. So for now it still is prototype, there is no
>> factory production.
>>
>
> --
> Cliffy - CARGPB2
> A passion for pinball!
> http://www.passionforpinball.com