[SOLVED] New rig time or slam on the brakes?

[4freedomssake]

I just recently found a few pennies underneath a small pebble in my backyard. So I decided to build a new rig with a $2500 budget.

But seriously, I’m not sure if I should go ahead and build a rig now or wait. As most of you know the price of parts keep rising. So I’m wondering If I should jump on them now or wait to see if they’re coming back down. What do you think?

I’m considering buying an Intel i7 for the new 1200 socket. I have a 9th generation i5 right now that does decent work. But I feel the part that is holding me back is the choking speed of my mini-ITX's RAM at 2400 MHz.

It seems that mini-ITX rigs have less of a choice with RAM speeds as well. The cases are so tight as well. So I am headed to a m-ATX system.

I have not had an AMD CPU since a 333hz Compaq laptop. Is there a new AMD CPU out to fit in new sockets for upgradeability in the future?
And last but not least the GPU <<Removed by moderator>> prices. My Geforce 1070 is limping. Jump on deck and search or wait?

Thanks

 

[Why_Me]

I just recently found a few pennies underneath a small pebble in my backyard. So I decided to build a new rig with a $2500 budget.

But seriously, I’m not sure if I should go ahead and build a rig now or wait. As most of you know the price of parts keep rising. So I’m wondering If I should jump on them now or wait to see if they’re coming back down. What do you think?

I’m considering buying an Intel i7 for the new 1200 socket. I have a 9th generation i5 right now that does decent work. But I feel the part that is holding me back is the choking speed of my mini-ITX's RAM at 2400 MHz.

It seems that mini-ITX rigs have less of a choice with RAM speeds as well. The cases are so tight as well. So I am headed to a m-ATX system.

I have not had an AMD CPU since a 333hz Compaq laptop. Is there a new AMD CPU out to fit in new sockets for upgradeability in the future?
And last but not least the GPU <<Removed by moderator>> prices. My Geforce 1070 is limping. Jump on deck and search or wait?

Thanks

What's your resolution?

 

[Barty1884]

A 9th Gen i5 + 1070? I'd be firmly in the "wait" camp if this isn't a revenue generating system for you.

It seems that mini-ITX rigs have less of a choice with RAM speeds as well.

Not following the logic here though...... Other than being limited to 2 DIMM slots, there shouldn't be anything fundamentally 'worse' about ITX RAM compatibility vs it's mATX or ATX brethren....

If anything, ITX memory support, from an OC'ing standpoint is likely better than ATX or mATX more often than not, due (marginally) shorter traces.

 

[geofelt]

If you have a need now, buy now.
If you wait for the next best thing, you will wait forever.

Intel does not depend much on fast ram for performance.
I doubt that 2400 speed ram is holding you back.
Here is an older study comparing 2122 ram and 3000 speed ram:

Skylake Memory Scaling with Kingston Predator DDR4-3000

Armed with a massive 32GB high-end Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 memory kit, we investigate how DDR4 frequencies and latencies affect real world performance on Intel’s latest mainstream desktop platform. October 13, 2015 by Lawrence Lee Product Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 32GB...

silentpcreview.com

spoiler... you are looking at perhaps 1% performance difference if you are using a discrete graphics card.

Try this simple test:
Run YOUR games, but lower your resolution and eye candy.
This makes the graphics card loaf a bit.
If your FPS increases, it indicates that your cpu is strong enough to drive a better graphics configuration.
If your FPS stays the same, you are likely more cpu limited.

It is tough to buy a good graphics card these days.
I hear that nvidia will ramp up production of 3060 cards with mining restrictors.
I think I would wait for a few months for the graphics prices to get better.
Any graphics upgrade will be easy to carry over to the next gen of processors and motherboards, Look for that in about a year.

If you want an upgrade to your 9400 now, look to the i5-11400.
Here is a review:

Intel Core i5-11400F Review: The New Value Champ

The Core i5-11400F coupled with a B560 motherboard make for an interesting build configuration, as it's significantly cheaper than the Core i5-11600K/Z590 and less than the cost...

www.techspot.com

 

[Why_Me]

@4freedomssake this gives you an idea of what you're looking at cost wise.

https://www.amazon.com/Fractal-Design-Meshify-Supply-MicroATX/dp/B07BCGCPFH
Fractal Design Meshify C Mini - Compact Mini Tower Computer Case $89.99

https://www.newegg.com/fractal-design-fd-fan-dyn-x2-gp12-bk-case-fan/p/N82E16835352028
Fractal Design Dynamic X2 GP-12 120mm Black Edition Case Fan $13.99

https://www.newegg.com/super-flower-leadex-iii-sf-650f14hg-650w/p/1HU-024C-00007
Super Flower Leadex III 650W 80+ Gold Modular Power Supply $87.99

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144396
MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA $139.99

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/intel-...ked-desktop-processor/6452218.p?skuId=6452218
Intel Core i5-11400 $189.99

https://www.amazon.com/Gelid-Solutions-Phantom-Cooler-Case/dp/B076KYYSRW
Gelid Solutions Phantom CPU Cooler $36.99

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-Desktop-Gaming-BL2K8G32C16U4B/dp/B083TRRT16/
Crucial Ballistix DDR4 3200MHz 16GB (8GBx2) CL16 $87.99

https://www.amazon.com/PNY-CS2130-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B0869B4Q66/
PNY CS2130 1TB M.2 PCIe NVMe Gen3 x4 Internal SSD $114.99

https://www.ebay.com/itm/174814933809
EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 FTW3 ULTRA $1,119.00

Total: $1882

Optional components ...

https://www.quietpc.com/asus-b560m-plus-tuf
ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS WIFI $152.20

https://www.antonline.com/Intel/Computers/Electronic_Components/Microprocessors/1419759
Intel Core i7-11700F $339.99

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Design-Towers-Cooler-SCFM-2000/dp/B07QMK5R45/
Scythe Fuma 2 CPU Air Cooler $59.99

https://www.amazon.com/PNY-CS2130-Internal-Solid-State/dp/B0869C35V2/
PNY CS2130 2TB M.2 PCIe NVMe Gen3 x4 Internal SSD $235.28

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Ballistix-Desktop-Gaming-BL2K8G32C16U4B/dp/B083TSLDF2/
Crucial Ballistix DDR4 3200MHz 32GB (16GBx2) CL16 $175.99

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards-Components/Motherboards/All-series/TUF-GAMING-B560M-PLUS-WIFI/

Meshify C Mini

www.fractal-design.com

 

[4freedomssake]

Sorry for the late reply.

@Why_Me 2560 x 1080 at an ugly 60 Hz Thanks for the system breakdown and it’s links

@Barty1884 Thanks

@geofelt Thanks for the link to the study and the review

What are your thoughts on an AMD Ryzen system? And yes this system is a want/need very soon or my better half may find a use for it. Video editing @4k with multiple audio streams, photo editing and just starting to dip my toes in Blender.

@All Maybe just a clean OS install?

 

[alceryes]

Th Ryzen 5000 series CPUs has a slightly higher core-for-core gaming performance than the same segment of Intel's latest CPUs.
If you're going to be doing heavy video editing then the gap widens a bit more in Ryzen's favor since the same segment Intel CPU usually has less cores. Something like a Ryzen 9 5900X will do great in a video editing (and gaming) system.

You would use the exact same RAM type/speed in mini-ATX, micro-ATX, and Standard ATX systems so I'm not sure what you are referring to there.The test @geofelt says to perform will give you an idea whether the CPU or GPU is holding back your current game.

Prices are still generally too high, especially the crazytown-prices on GPUs. But if you NEED it for work...

 

[geofelt]

I tried to look up the motherboard specified on your profile,
MSI B360 Gaming Plus mini-ITX
I do not find it. Was that a typo?
I wanted to see what cpu and ram options you have for upgrade in place.
Your i9-9400 has 6 threads and a passmark performance rating of 9542.
That is when all 6 threads are fully utilized. The single thread rating is 2482.
Most of the time, the single thread performance is the most important for games.
On apps that can fully utilize many threads, the total score is most important.
I might think, based on the i5-9400 that your motherboard can support a processor as strong as a i9-9900KF with 16 threads and a rating of 18905/3001
On ram, you might be able to support as much as 64gb.
If you will be running many multithreaded apps, you want sufficient ram to hold all of them at the same time, as well as enough processing threads.
FWIW, the i5-11400F referenced above has 12 threads and a rating of 17873/3059.
Essentially the same performance as the i9-9900K.
It would need a lga1200 based motherboard.
11400 comes with an adequate cooler. Fot the older gen 9900K, you would need a good cooler, not something easy to do in a ITX system.

On ryzen, I have mixed thoughts.
Originally, ryzen was a great value if you need many threads.
But for gaming, the single thread performance from Intel was better.
Forward to today, the ryzen 5000 series has a better architecture and the single thread performance is improved, somewhat comparable to intel 11th gen. You can pick either today. The price premium for ryzen 5000 seems to be lessening.
The one place to be careful with ryzen seems to be ram compatibility.
Not all apparently similar ram works well. support differs by cpu.
Best to pick a kit on the motherboard ram QVL list that explicitly supports your particular mobo/cpu combination.
If you need more than 16 processing threads, then ryzen 5900 is the way to go.

If you need a high performance photoshop editing system, look at these suggestions from Puget systems:
https://www.pugetsystems.com/recomm...-Adobe-Photoshop-139/Hardware-Recommendations

 

[logainofhades]

Ryzen is a bit faster, than 11th gen, while using a considerable amount less power. Mini ITX doesn't care about ram speeds. My rig is ITX, with DDR4 3600 in it, with an R7 5800x. Ram is limited by the CPU, and chipset/motherboard, more than anything, especially with how Intel has traditionally limited ram speeds, on non Z chipsets. Keep the 1070 and build around it. It is still a decent 1080p GPU. Buy new GPU, once prices stabilize. If only gaming, a 5800x is plenty, giving you a bit of future multicore support. If you are into content creation, I would step up to a 5900x, at the very least.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($394.00 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Vetroo V5 52 CFM CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B550I AORUS PRO AX Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($189.99 @ B&H)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($187.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket 4.0 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($89.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Team T-Force Cardea Zero Z330 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($206.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Nano S Mini ITX Desktop Case ($77.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2021) 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1296.91
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-06-29 09:53 EDT-0400

 

[4freedomssake]

@geofelt Here's the board on the MSI site: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B360I-GAMING-PRO-AC/Specification

A negative to the board in my opinion is the highest RAM speed which is 2666 MHz with two DIMMS & 32GB max.

@All Thanks for your input. An other thoughts or recommendations?