New Ryzen 5 1600x-based PC Build Experiencing Issues

bluehasryzen

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Sep 21, 2017
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This will be a long one so you can start pouring your coke [or insert favourite beverage here] and popping your popcorn [i'll be nice enough to let you choose the food of your choice too].

First and foremost, here are the specs of my build: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/pcJbM8

Note: take as a premise that i've been researching all matters of PC building and overclocking on and off since 2014 (when I started contemplating the idea of building my own PC) and more intensively since the last 2 months. Even though it doesn't exclude the fact that I don't have absolute knowledge, I like to be thorough in everything I do so I consider asking for help here as a last resort after doing my own research and looking at forums as I understand it can be difficult to figure out what is going on from a distance. TL;DR: i'm a novice--yes--but i've done my homework (maybe not all of it, but what I could) and I know what i'm doing.

While I initially had certain issues that I imagine at least a certain portion of first-time PC builders like myself encounter (atleast from what I assume and what i've observed on forums concerning the matter), I was able to overcome them and get to the point where I am now (which means getting windows, other programs, and games--at least partially, lol--to run)

Issues i've been having:

My first concern was with temperatures, which seem to always have hovered around 40-45 in the UEFI no matter the version (those temps aren't alarming but still warm for idle. I figure this is due to the offset applied to X Ryzens either by Asus or AMD themselves, and i've seen people get higher temps in their BIOS than when idling on Windows, which I also observed myself by looking at temps on HWMonitor while idling on desktop later on. Although i'm still not 100% certain what temps to look at with all the confusion on the Internet, the package and TMPIN temps all seem to stay below 40 and package sometimes goes down to the 20s for a second on idle and i've observed an around mid-60s maximum during a Cinebench test).

So after doing some research and stressing out about this for a while, I finally decided to install Windows 10 and convinced myself my system was sophisticated enough to protect itself and shut itself down in the event of excessive temps. I initally experienced display signal-loss/ black-screen issues (which I describe later on below) when I first tried to install Windows but this was due to a too-drastic undervolting (-0.13125 offset, to be exact, in fear that my motherboard was overvolting my CPU with voltages of 1.4v and up, which it goes up to from its 1.375 default setting) on my part, which I corrected by recovering optimized defaults. Rest assured I proceeded to reinstall Windows after to avoid any chance of corruption due to these issues I experienced during my first installation.

After the Windows installation (plus updates) and then installing drivers one by one with a restart in between each (see the issue I had with Nvidia driver 385.41 at the start below, which is not an issue anymore for some reason) was done came my growing concern with voltage, which my Asus ROG Strix B350-F sets at 1.375 (a voltage that i've heard Ryzen can handle but a bit on the high side and close to the threshold at which you start to observe degredation after a while, according to me and what i've seen on the interwebs); that is, as of BIOS 0809. Unfortunately, I don't remember which UEFI version my board came with as I almost flashed right away after testing to see if it POSTed.

The thing is when I leave my UEFI settings on optimized defaults, it sets my Vcore--or my VDDCR, as they call it--on 1.375 auto but I can see it hover around 1.4-1.45 in my UEFI hardware monitor (screenshots of my UEFI screen opon request), which I can also see momentarily spike up to in HWMonitor on Windows. I know it is normal for CPUs to ramp up and down due to cores waking up and falling to sleep/different states but unless it is normal for it to do that, it means my MB is clocking my CPU up to 4Ghz on at least 2 cores (according to AMDs XFR/Precision Boost Technology) and also while idling on desktop with only HWMonitor open, which it shouldn't and is a bit excessive, in my opinion.

When I set VDDCR to 1.2875 using a -0.0875 offset from the standard 1.375, it can go down to around 0.5v when completely idle and nothing is open, but as soon as I open a program, I rarely see it go down to even 0.8v (i'm not sure if this is a problem) and often goes higher than 1.3v (I've seen it go up 1.363 when running games or a Cinebench test). Maybe i'm not looking at the right voltage since there are many voltages (and temps) to look at in HWMonitor. Also, if I set a CPU core ratio of 38 and let it set a voltage on its own, it sets it to around 1.5v so that means I have to downvolt my CPU from default to attain 3.8Ghz without frying it.

- Since updating from CCleaner 5.33 to 5.34, Windows Defender detected a backdoor threat in the 5.33 installer .exe and somewhere in a ryzen-related directory (although I should have recorded the location and failed to do so due to the stress of having a threat on my newly-built PC on which I never did anything or went anywhere near where there was a chance I could have gotten a virus, it was probably a chipset driver related file). Also, pretty much right before I entered the OS I had flashed from UEFI v0809 to 0811, so basically I can't isolate what happened. When I got into Windows, I decided to perform a Cinebench test to see if my scores were still the same since I felt like they had lowered at some point (due to background programs, I had assumed) but they seemed to still to be on par with what I got before the Cinebench freezing issue started to appear.

- My computer sometimes fails to POST on restart when clocked to 3.8Ghz on 1.287v (either via restarting through windows or pressing the restart button on my case)

- The backlit writing on my Gtx 1070 doesn't light up evenly. Also, i've started experiencing coil whine (i'm pretty sure that is what i'm hearing) since a long session of BF1, although this doesn't seem to affect performance

I know saying this makes it look like my GPU is the culprit but what makes more suspicious about my CPU is the micro-stuttering in games and the recent freezing in Cinebench, which looks similar to when I tried installing Windows 10 while undervolting my CPU.

My Cinebench scores with corresponding UEFI settings are as follows:

*DOCP=Asus' term for XMP Profile
**CPB=Core Performance Boost

Completely stock (anywhere around 1.35v-1.45v with DOCP and CPB On): the highest I ever got was 1243

Stock with DOCP and CPB off (around 1.22v @3.6Ghz): 1150-1170

1.287v @3.8Ghz with DOCP on and CPB off: the highest I ever got was 1278

Game Performance:

All game cutscenes seem to have this kind of micro-stutter effect that makes objects twitch and look laggy in general (especially GTA V and BF1)

Nonetheless, I get pretty good FPS in the games i've tried.

Space Engineers: 90-120 on average but it dips to below 60 when I crash a ship or when it loads terrain on a planet

GTA V: 70-110, except for 55-60 fps lag spikes sometimes when changing camera angle rapidly, in intense events such as colliding with surfaces, while driving in grassy mountains, and in menus

BF1: 80-120, stutter in intense moments during campaign, starts after 3 matches in multiplayer (sometimes items in the spawn screen flash), and 144 in menus

Chivalry - Medieval Warfare: hovers around the 120 fps extended cap I set in the config file as I didn't like the choppiness of 60 fps since i've gotten used to the 144Hz of my screen but it seems to also micro-stutter

Day of Infamy: especially when I run or am in certain areas (right in front of the left bunker on the american side in Dog Red, for example). I can clearly see stuttering in this one because I can actually see it freeze and i've moved from where I was before when it "unfreezes" (lasts like a fraction of a second)

Minecraft: FPS drops to below 60 after a while. I've tried from playing with in-game settings, to allocated ram (up to 8gb) in launch instructions, and using Optifine. To no avail, but it seems to lessen the effect if I lower chunk render distance so I guess it's an issue related to chunk render distance

What i've tried as of now:

- Undervolting since I deemed voltage set too high on auto (1.375). At the very start I went as low as a -0.13125 offset and it seemed to still POST and get to the UEFI but it started losing display signal and black-screening, which interrupted my attempts to instal Windows. The solution was a hard-reboot via holding the power button. Worry not as I since then realized I was by far undervolting my CPU and did a clean install of Windows in case these interruptions could have caused OS corruption during installation or any kind of corruption in general.

- Several clean installations of Windows 10 Pro x64, cleaning the drive with Window's Diskpart utility during the installation before installing the OS and keeping my WD 1tb storage drive unplugged during the process

- Several Nvidia drivers (the newest 385.41 version seemed to stutter for a second upon startup and once had my GPU pegged on 100% clock speed when not running games for no apparent reason so I resorted back to the 384.94 default windows driver and I've had no issues that I can directly relate to this particular version since then)

- Temporary fix for stutter in BF1 (only one i've tried): high performance mode (It is always set on Ryzen Balanced Power Plan since I downloaded the AMD chipset driver it was packaged with)

UEFI settings that seemed to work and be stable on games (minus the micro-stuttering) and Cinebench before I started having problems with it:

- DOCP according to SPD determined by Team Group
- Many different Load Line Calibration settings (from auto to high) for CPU and SOC. Doesn't seem to help stability, only to slightly increase voltage and lower my Cinebench scores the higher I go

- CPU core ratio 38(x100) @ VDDCR 1.287v using a negative offset to the 1.375v auto setting my motherboard sets on its own. It used to work on 1.287v @3.8Ghz before I started experiencing freezing in Cinebench.

(I even tried AIDA64 for a couple minutes even though I don't feel like that kind of stability/stress testing would reflect my real-world usage of this computer and I didn't want to risk damaging my new CPU even more, plus different errors/problems can arise when performing different tasks)

In no particular order, here are possible causes for issues i'm having:

- Inappropriate UEFI settings (too low voltage?)

- Software corruption (Windows or installed programs)

- I Dropped the SSD on my table while taking it out from its packaging, only from a couple inches off the table at most though, not even 5 (Unlikely to cause issues. I asked a guy I know that works with and builds servers and he said apart from the read/write limit SSDs have (in other words, their lifetime), they either work or don't. Now, I know I can't necessarily take that for granted, but I find it logical to think so considering our collective technical know-how)

- Possible bent CPU pins (unlikely, but it is still a possibility since I reinserted the CPU to make sure it was properly seated in the socket, being as careful as possible of course. But, I don't see why it would give me the issues i'm encountering. I assume the PC just wouldn't turn on or would fail to POST). I can check for bent pins if it is deemed necessary.

- Corrupted installation media (I installed Windows 10 Pro x64 from a bootable-USB I made using Microsoft's media creation tool. Even though I did this a couple of times along with a couple Win 10 clean installations, I assume this couldn't really be the issue since the tool reformats the USB every time)

- UEFI versions (Nothing seems to be out of the ordinary except for Cinebench and the games I tried--especially not in the UEFI, except for the temp and voltage "issues" I mentioned I was having at first--but I was wondering if certain parts of a UEFI version could remain even when you flash to a newer one because the issues with Cinebench started when I flashed to 0811 and even remained when I reflashed to 0809. This is unless this is not all related to a software issue caused by a windows update made in the background or the CCleaner 5.33 backdoor virus I mentioned earlier)

I ordered my parts on (August 12) and my computer was up and running on (August 26). I wanted to pinpoint the culprit(s) of the issues i've been having before the end of my return window, but unfortunately, all this testing plus me being busy with school and life in general has made it impossible for me to do so. I am more than a month in but I can still rely on manufacturer warranty so I was wondering if you guys could help me find out what the problematic variable is (i'm thinking a defective CPU, but then again i'm wondering if it can show symptoms of being degraded like it seems to be or if simply would not work. This is an answer i'm having trouble finding on the Internet)--if applicable--so I can proceed to RMA if necessary. Also, I don't know if he will be able to help me or not, but I will possibly be getting my PC checked out by somewhat of a professional in the matter so I'll update you guys on that if necessary.

While I know I haven't tested every possible variable in every possible instance (which is impossible to do anyway), i've done my best to troubleshoot everything as thoroughly as I could and I feel like something isn't normal here or at least as it should be. Also, I know it's not always an easy plug 'n' play experience with PC-building but I think with the amount of time and money (especially with money totalling around $2k CAN with the screen and keyboard) i've spent, it should be at least a bit moreso than it is now. It would be fun to be able to use my PC without worry of damaging something or that some problem is lurking right around the corner every time I try something new so I am ready to do what it takes to be able to use it like i've been wanting to for a bit more than a month now.

I have a couple more things I have up my sleeve, such as setting everything back to auto/optimized defaults (although reluctantly) as if something happens (such as burning my CPU out due to excessive voltage) it is not my fault since logically ASUS set those defaults in accordance to AMDs recommendations and I am still under warranty. I will also once again do a clean install of Windows just for good measure.
 
Good call. I wouldn't be surprised if your motherboard was partly to blame. A good friend of mine has one of the higher end Gigabyte A370 boards, I want to say he's got one of the Gigabyte auros boards, as he was showing me his setup. That said, I had to help him troubleshoot something with his 1700x. I've got a slightly overclocked 1600 on an ASRock board, and would get Cinebench scores like 1227 or 1228. He had to update his bios, specifically due something having to do with the way the board gave voltage to his cpu he said. Apparently some of those Gigabyte boards were giving too much voltage to the cpu and causing issues or killing them as well

Anyway, in his case iirc, he'd never reset his bios after updating, and it had kept his profiles and all that(he hasn't overclocked yet), and his cinebench scores were all over the map, even lower than mine sometimes. We finally ended up tracing it down to him needing to reset his bios again, and then to reset the SMP profile on his ram back to 2933, and everything suddenly stabilized.

I can't say I've had any real problems with my ASRock AB350 board. I usually opt for a Gigabyte board personally, but the salesman at Microcenter told me the boards he seems to have the least returns on and the least issues with have been ASRock boards when it comes to Ryzen.

Not the biggest fan of Asus personally. I know that they make some great parts, but it does seem like when I go into Microcenter, at least at times, there are a lot of Asus boards on the shelf that have come back from being returned.
 
First let me say the cooler master 212 EVO isnt enough for the 1600X. The Ryzen 1600 comes with the wraith spire thats on par to the CM212. The 1600 can only do about 3.7~3.8Ghz with that cooler. Your 1600X tho is boosting to 4Ghz so you could be having thermal throttling. Could be your getting a bit to much heat when boosting.

Second set bios back to stock and test. If it works correctly then it was something you changed in bios. Make sure everything is working correcly or not at stock settings first.
 

bluehasryzen

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Sep 21, 2017
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I get what you mean about the Hyper 212 (because the 1600 and x dont have the same TDP) but why do we often see it bundled with the 1600x? And although i'm not 100% familiar with the topic of thermal throttling, how could it be throttling at well below 70C? Can it throttle even before reaching its limit (which I assume is a Tjunction in the high 80s to around 90)?
 
They bundle it because it will work but not as it should. AMD has the max working temp for Ryzen X series at 95.1c but that could be 75.1c without the 20c. Throttling may occur well before that depending on AMD's windows power plan. Now is the below 70c at stock? First make sure you see the same issue with bios set to stock. We need to rule that out first.
 
You sure that evo is not enough?

I've got this cooler on my 1600(non X)

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103084

I stay in the 60s at load I'd say. May jump to low 70's if I'm running Intel Burn test. I'm overclocked to 3.7ghz, I think at just under 1.3 volts, so I'm probably pulling that 95 watts. He might want to add another 120mm fan for a push pull setup on that EVO. If not, should be able to go to like an H100i or something.

What concerns me a little is how he says the voltage is jumping. Another thread here said max of 1.4 volts and no more than 75c.

I think I would try to update the bios on the board to the latest version if that hasn't been done yet, then reset all values to default. Make sure though that you tell the CPU fan to spin at 100% at all times.

Uninstall CCleaner, there was known viruses discovered in one of their recent versions. Bleachbit is open source and should be a good alternative. May not hurt to do a clean install one more time after doing these things to be safe. Make sure you install all chipset drivers etc. Also, there is a Ryzen power plan from AMD that you can install from AMD and enable instead of the Windows default power plan that's designed for Ryzen cpu's. Those are the first things I'd check. Then monitor your temps in games etc.

Also, temps in bios, don't be too concerned. From what I've read UEFI actually puts a little load on the cpu. What type of thermal paste did you use and how was it applied? It may not hurt to pull the cooler, clean off the old paste and reapply. I personally like Arctic Silver 5(though I had to use Cooler Master paste last time because I ran out of AS5:(.
 
I'm sure its not much better than the stock wraith spire that comes with the 1600 and its overclocking limit is 3.7~3.8Ghz. The 1600X hits 4Ghz+ while boosting thus well beyond what the CM212 should handle for much more than few seconds. I would hold the 1600X back or hit higher temps than it should.



You should only use 1.35v in an overclock on air but if its just occuasionally jumping to 1.4v during boost shouldn't hurt. I think he already stated that he updated the bios.
 
Hm. Interesting. Thanks for the info.

I will say that my vortex plus honestly does not do much better than the Wraith Spire I was using. The Wraith is actually half decent for what it is. It just had the copper slug in the middle. Personally I prefer the chip face completely covered, not just the inner circle. I guess I'm old fashioned that way lol.

I wonder if it would actually perform better then, if he simply overclocked a bit, and turned off the power states, C1E etc, and disabled turbo boost. Just make the cpu run at a constant say 3.8ghz.
 
Possibly a cause of the stuttering. Looks like he tested everything else. Only other things I can think of is reseating the video card and RAM. Pulling them out and putting them back in to make sure their connections are good.
 

bluehasryzen

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Hey guys, i've been looking at your replies and here's what I think:

My temps seem reasonable as I don't get higher than 40C at idle (even with momentary spikes up to 1.5v) and the mid 50s when under game load (GTA V for example). The highest I get is when running Cinebench and that goes up to around the low 60s. Temps are even lower than before, since I re-purposed my top exhaust fan as the pull in my new 212 evo push-pull setup (positive air pressure setup with 2x120mm intakes and 1x120mm exhaust). I've seen people run much hotter without experiencing throttling (ohiou_grad_2006 in the low 70s, for example) so I don't think that is my problem. Btw, I don't think my processor ever got as hot as 70C.

My BIOS and chipset driver (from AMD with ryzen balanced power plan) has always been up to date. I've probably tried reseating my GPU and RAM like 3 times and doing a clean install of Windows 10 at least 10 times by now.

I think the problem was apparent from the start. I've been having issues with irregular voltages (even at stock) all along so i'm either dealing with a defective motherboard (more, specifically VRMs) or CPU. I think I did my best but I shouldn't have to deal with stuttering and having to undervolt my CPU in fear of frying it at stock settings. Thanks for your help but I think i'll go with the RMA route as no amount of tweaking will fix what is already broken at stock.
 
That would work as it basically turn the CM212 into a CM212x. Try the RMA on the motherboard as its the most likely for sure. Take a good look at your CPU tho for bent pins and if you see none I would say the motherboard is your issue.
 
Good call. I wouldn't be surprised if your motherboard was partly to blame. A good friend of mine has one of the higher end Gigabyte A370 boards, I want to say he's got one of the Gigabyte auros boards, as he was showing me his setup. That said, I had to help him troubleshoot something with his 1700x. I've got a slightly overclocked 1600 on an ASRock board, and would get Cinebench scores like 1227 or 1228. He had to update his bios, specifically due something having to do with the way the board gave voltage to his cpu he said. Apparently some of those Gigabyte boards were giving too much voltage to the cpu and causing issues or killing them as well

Anyway, in his case iirc, he'd never reset his bios after updating, and it had kept his profiles and all that(he hasn't overclocked yet), and his cinebench scores were all over the map, even lower than mine sometimes. We finally ended up tracing it down to him needing to reset his bios again, and then to reset the SMP profile on his ram back to 2933, and everything suddenly stabilized.

I can't say I've had any real problems with my ASRock AB350 board. I usually opt for a Gigabyte board personally, but the salesman at Microcenter told me the boards he seems to have the least returns on and the least issues with have been ASRock boards when it comes to Ryzen.

Not the biggest fan of Asus personally. I know that they make some great parts, but it does seem like when I go into Microcenter, at least at times, there are a lot of Asus boards on the shelf that have come back from being returned.
 

bluehasryzen

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Sep 21, 2017
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Cool. Do you think my CPU could have been damaged tho?

 
Na as long as the pins look good it should be fine. The motherboard controls all the voltage and such. It could be possible that a differant motherboard would be more compatible to the CPU. I would suggest an ASRock AB350 Pro4 if you can get a differant model.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Motherboard: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($134.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Total: $134.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-09-25 12:31 EDT-0400
 

bluehasryzen

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Sep 21, 2017
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As I said before, i'm over my 30-day refund/return period so I unfortunately cannot get another board. One way or another, I will get a working setup as the B350-f is advertised to work with the 1600x and I even bought them bundled together. Asus, AMD, and Newegg will hear about me until it works as it should.
 

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