News New Ryzen 9000X3D CPU could deliver EPYC levels of game-boosting L3 cache — rumored chip reportedly sports 16 Zen 5 cores, 192MB L3 cache, 200W TDP

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I have a feeling sales will be low. Many people who wanted the 9950x3D, even though only one CCD had 3D vCache, have already bought a 9950x3D. Hopefully they don't view low sales as an indicator that people don't want it. I'd be very curious to see benchmarks in heavily multithreaded games like FS2020/2024, AW2, Satisfactory, etc, as well as production workloads.

I probably wouldn't replace my 9950x3D with it quite yet, but the idea of a 16-core Zen 6 with x3D cache on both dies would 100% be a buy for me.
 
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emike09 said:
I have a feeling sales will be low. Many people who wanted the 9950x3D, even though only one CCD had 3D vCache, have already bought a 9950x3D. Hopefully they don't view low sales as an indicator that people don't want it. I'd be very curious to see benchmarks in heavily multithreaded games like FS2020/2024, AW2, Satisfactory, etc, as well as production workloads.

I probably wouldn't replace my 9950x3D with it quite yet, but the idea of a 16-core Zen 6 with x3D cache on both dies would 100% be a buy for me.
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GPU's are the bottleneck in most games, not 9800X3D or higher. The only way to really bog these down is to run benchmarks at 1080P, which is synthetically low for the part considering many to most owners of these chips are rocking high-end GPU's and therefore usually running at 1440P or 4K.

The high-core-count Zen 6 X3D will likely actually have 24-cores since Zen 6 is going to 12-core CCD's. Even then, we'll have to see what Z6's IPC and clocks uplift are as otherwise, the extra cores won't help with 99% of games.
 
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Eximo said:
Yields must be pretty good for them to want to risk putting two of them on a single package.
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That and a good supply of the cache chiplets. Do you know what node the latest ones used with Zen 5 CPUs are one?

emike09 said:
I have a feeling sales will be low. Many people who wanted the 9950x3D, even though only one CCD had 3D vCache, have already bought a 9950x3D. Hopefully they don't view low sales as an indicator that people don't want it. I'd be very curious to see benchmarks in heavily multithreaded games like FS2020/2024, AW2, Satisfactory, etc, as well as production workloads.
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This is a good part for workstation-lite people who have workloads that benefit from 3D cache, or people who want 16-core, 3D cache, and zero scheduling issues.

If there is a game that could actually show a significant benefit from two CCDs having 3D cache, that would be wild. I doubt it exists, but if you programmed specifically for this processor, it wouldn't need to be heavily multi-threaded. You would just use at least one core on each CCD, with those cores using up as much cache as they can.

Maybe the scheduler can make that happen, i.e. if at least one core on each CCD can boost really high at the same time, because the thermal load is spread out, then they will naturally use both pools of cache.

Having a larger cache pool (Zen 6 X3D should have 12 cores with 144 MiB on a CCD instead of 96 MiB) is going to be more broadly beneficial. But if some developer really wanted to show off, they might be able to force dual cache to be leveraged.

This is a rumor though, so don't get too excited.
 
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Eximo said:
Presumably the same node as all of Zen 5. TSMC N4X. At least desktop, HEDT, and server.
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I doubt it. Zen 4 used N5 for CCDs, and N7 for the cache chiplet. Cache doesn't shrink very well.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shares-new-second-gen-3d-v-cache-chiplet-details-up-to-25-tbs
Overall, AMD's second-gen 3D V-Cache technology is an impressive step forward over the first-gen because it allows the company to leverage the now-mature and less-expensive 7nm process node to boost the performance of its cutting-edge 5nm compute die.
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usertests said:
I doubt it. Zen 4 used N5 for CCDs, and N7 for the cache chiplet. Cache doesn't shrink very well.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-shares-new-second-gen-3d-v-cache-chiplet-details-up-to-25-tbs
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That is listed for the Zen 5 cores, N4X. If they used a different process for the cache, it was not listed. N6 for the I/O though.

I should add that the node naming isn't exactly a match for a true node shrink, just refinements. TSMC '7nm' includes N6, TSMC '5nm' includes all the 4 nodes. and '3nm' will include 3 and 2 'class' nodes.
 
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Eximo said:
That is listed for the Zen 5 cores, N4X. If they used a different process for the cache, it was not listed. N6 for the I/O though.

I should add that the node naming isn't exactly a match for a true node shrink, just refinements. TSMC '7nm' includes N6, TSMC '5nm' includes all the 4 nodes. and '3nm' will include 3 and 2 'class' nodes.
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Ok, I found it, it's still on TSMC "7nm":

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...9800x3d-review-devastating-gaming-performance
The new L3 cache chiplet is based on the same 7nm SRAM-optimized process node that AMD used in the previous two generations of 3D V-Cache technology in a technique that AMD now refers to as its 'Second-Gen 3D V-Cache' technology (this is an odd branding choice — this is actually the third refinement of the technology).
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Eximo said:
They haven't been publishing SRAM cell size either on the latest nodes.
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After the stagnation at N3 which led to proclamations of The Death of SRAM, N2 with GAAFETs brings a legit gain: +13% density compared to N3, +19.5% compared to N3E/N5.

So the 48 MiB on AMD's new 12-core Zen 6 CCDs is taking up an area that would have only stored ~40 MiB on the 5nm family of nodes (math = 48 / 1.19496855...). I suppose that means the SRAM is taking up about 25.5% more die area compared to the previous chiplet with 32 MiB. If the CCD doesn't grow significantly larger despite the core count increase, the SRAM is taking up a greater proportion of the die yet again.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/no-sram-scaling-implies-on-more-expensive-cpus-and-gpus
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-i...cs-2nm-process-tech-claims-major-improvements
 
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DS426 said:
GPU's are the bottleneck in most games, not 9800X3D or higher. The only way to really bog these down is to run benchmarks at 1080P, which is synthetically low for the part considering many to most owners of these chips are rocking high-end GPU's and therefore usually running at 1440P or 4K.

The high-core-count Zen 6 X3D will likely actually have 24-cores since Zen 6 is going to 12-core CCD's. Even then, we'll have to see what Z6's IPC and clocks uplift are as otherwise, the extra cores won't help with 99% of games.
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I would agree with you to a larger degree if I didn't personally care much more about things like microstutter and 1% lows, rather than average or peak FPS.
 
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with 10000 series around the corner im kinda wondering whats the point !!

Dont get me wrong even i wanted dual stacked cache on the 9950x3d as ive held back on the 9800x3d and now the 9950x3d by sticking with my 7800x3d for this very reason .

i wonder though is x3d is starting to over hype its self into oblivion ..

With GPU's getting better and better the days of 1080 gaming is slowing down which obviously once you start going up in resolution cache becomes less and less of a factor ..

There are obvious gains with higher cache at every resolution but it lessens ..

Then the other question what is the diminishing returns on cache for games anyway ??

If you double the cache or triple it even is there a point where the benefit of all that extra cache does little ??
 
DS426 said:
GPU's are the bottleneck in most games, not 9800X3D or higher. The only way to really bog these down is to run benchmarks at 1080P, which is synthetically low for the part considering many to most owners of these chips are rocking high-end GPU's and therefore usually running at 1440P or 4K.

The high-core-count Zen 6 X3D will likely actually have 24-cores since Zen 6 is going to 12-core CCD's. Even then, we'll have to see what Z6's IPC and clocks uplift are as otherwise, the extra cores won't help with 99% of games.
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It really depends on how this thing is priced. Even at higher resolutions you can get better 1% low frame rates. If it's reasonable priced it might be worth it (something close to current 9900x3d/9950x3d), otherwise I agree for higher resolutions one is probably better served springing for a better GPU than a dual CCD V-Cache
 
Oh dear god, I would be so moist if this happens.

I have a 5950X and starting a build around a 9950X3D, so this would be the perfect CPU to make that generational leap, especially as I have stagnated on core counts for a number of years, the biggest boost I can expect is an increased per-thread performance.
 
Right when I was riding full copium this was going to be the case, AMD shot me down. Now that I have the 9950X3D, there's this rumour...

Come on AMD. Why are you doing this to me? So painful.

I'll still buy it... Probably... Now I just need to find someone willing to buy the 9950X3D if this rumour is legit.

Regards.
 
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