New Setup! Mobo? Video card?...

Mephistopheles

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It's that time again... I'm planning on building a new computer. I plan to use it for games as well as a lot video encoding.

I was currently considering a...
<b><font color=green>A64 3200+ on K8V with 1GB DDR400</b></font color=green>

I know that should be much faster than my current dual P3 933Mhz... My only concern is that the P4 3.0C can offer better video encoding performance... And HT for crazy multitasking, which I have come to love with a dual CPU... However, I finally made my mind: what the hell, Doom 3 is also a factor in my purchasing decision, and A64 rocks in it!!! Then there's cool'n'quiet (can't stand two cpus and TWO FANS anymore) and 64-bits...

However: is the A8V Deluxe good? It's also more expensive than, say, a <b>P4P800-SE for a 3.0C</b>; I could then ramp up to 3.2C. The added RAID functionality is of little interest to me... Any suggestions? Please?... (I like ASUS, for instance, but they seem to have too few S939 options)

Plus, there's another thing I wanted to get straight: video card. I was planning on a <b>GFX 6800 GT</b>, understandably, but I wanted to know if GT-based cards will sport video in functionality (and in what form). I researched the web, and from what I found, I understand that there's VIVO functionality in the 6800 series - that's <b>v</b>ideo <b>i</b>n <b>v</b>ideo <b>o</b>ut... But I also found that even so, even 6800 Ultras don't have video ins.

...which is something I find kind of sad, because in the good old days of the GeForce4 Ti, the 4400 and 4600 had video ins... And plus, I'd love to get the ATI Remote Wonder II, but that's another thing entirely...

Could anyone help me out here please?...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 08:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Cybercraig

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I don't think it matters which platform you go with if you're looking at a 6800GT. You'll probably hit 60K in Aquamark3 at stock speeds. For a 939 platform look at MSI's Neo Platinum also. An A64-3500 or a P4-3.0 @ 3.5ghz looks real nice to me. :smile:

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Mephistopheles

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I didn't truly think that it would make an enourmous difference (P4/A64) either...

But these Platinums or Deluxes all have RAID functionality which I'm not going to implement. Isn't there a cheaper alternative? For instance, the P4P800-SE is perfectly suited for me: no RAID, pricing around $85...

I suppose I could go with spending around 125~135. If I were to do so, however, I'd prefer to go with the ASUS Deluxe one... I kinda feel at home with asus.

I don't usually overclock, but I am open to new ideas. I'll consider it too...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 02:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

scottchen

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Well if you're not going strictly gaming, then socket754's out, so it's between Northwood P4 and S939 A64. If you ask me i'd go with the P4, simply because it's cheaper and it's a proven technology, what i mean is that there's a huge selection of mobo for it, while 939 your choice of mobo is very very limited.

You could go with a P4 3.0C along with some PC3700 ram, 15x233 is just about 3.5Ghz, but i'm sure most PC3700 go beyond their rated frequencies.

For motherboard my favourite would be the Abit IC7 Max 3, for me it was sweet, with a 2.4C it reached 300FSB instantly, without any kind of modification to the board. And of course the board allows 3.2 Vdimm:D

As for the VIVO functionality, i think that's just an add-on chip, with 3rd manufactures could decide whether they want to have that function or not.

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

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Mephistopheles

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Thanks for the reply.
while 939 your choice of mobo is very very limited.
I've noticed. It's just that it's quite an admirable platform... I do understand that the 3.0C is tried-and-true technology... Which is why I might end up with a 3.2C on IC7 (or P4P800-SE) (you can take your pick from a a gazillion mobos with the P4!) I'm still deciding on the AMD vs Intel issue...
As for the VIVO functionality, i think that's just an add-on chip, with 3rd manufactures could decide whether they want to have that function or not.
I wonder if someone was wise enough to include it? I'll look for it...
Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.
I know. :smile:

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 02:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

scottchen

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Well i just hope the 6800 series isn't gonna be like the 5900, oh god the model numbers, pv, epv, se, xt, ext, ultra, and a trillion other ones, the cheaper ones were strip downs, so no Vivo, normally you pay about a 10 dollars extra for the Vivo card, at least that was the case with the 5900 series.

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

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Mephistopheles

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Now that you've mentioned it, I could go with the 2.8C or so... and get some extra features. Better speakers, 17' Flat CRT from samsung, and so on.

Hm, which sound card should I choose? And a reasonably priced one at that?

After all, sometimes we tend to exaggerate on the importance of a few percent performance and downplay the extra features we could get...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 03:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

scottchen

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That might be a good idea, get a 2.8C with generic ram and use 5:4 divider to overclock maybe. Then get a 19" CRT, because 17's horrible. 19" from KDS are now less than 150CAD, so let's say it's around 110-120US? 5.1 Speakers would also be nice to have, but if anything i'd definently get a 19" monitor first.

Don't listen to anything Kanavit says, because he's a limped dick Intel loving pussy.

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Quetzacoatl

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A lot of manufacturers have jumped on the Via envy 7.1 audio chip. Check out the PCI card gainward makes, it's only $45'ish and is pretty full blown in quality for it's price. Lots of others seem to reccomend the venerable but slowly aging Turtle Beach Voyetra card (spelling?). I forget the correct name, it's been so long since i've seen one of those cards.

Now I remember, it's the Santa Cruz

:cool: I run my AthlonXfx at 7.65 Exahertz :cool: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Quetzacoatl on 08/08/04 01:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

blackphoenix77

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I'd go with A64.

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Mephistopheles

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Thanks for all the replies.

<b>scottchen:</b> I think using anything above 1024x768 on a 17" isn't that good an idea too... Maybe I'll consider a 19", then. 5.1 Speakers are also high on my features list, you're right about that! But monitor goes first, agreed.

<b>Quetzacoatl:</b> Thanks for the suggestion; I was considering a Creative SB Audigy 2 (6.1)... I'll look into other possibilities, but the basic Audigy 2 6.1 solution is $55 or so...
<i>New: Looked for it, and found the VOYETRA TURTLE BEACH SANTA CRUZ for less than $50. Are those really good? I'll consider those...</i>

<b>blackphoenix77:</b> I know, I'm tempted to go with the A64, but the mobos available for socket 939 are few and far between. They're fully-fledged high-end products and are mostly more expensive... I'm still a bit puzzled as for which platform to choose.

I'll give a rundown of my two comparable-priced options from Intel and AMD in a future post. Bear in mind that I might do a considerable amount of video encoding... for which P4Cs are great... However, I'll also do gaming. All in all, overall, A64 will probably be a bit faster, I know. "a bit faster" isn't the only issue to consider...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 07:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Mephistopheles

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Options...

<font color=blue>P4 3.0C ($200)
Asus P4P800-SE ($85)
1GB DDR400 ($110)</font color=blue>
Total: <b>$395</b>

<font color=green>A64 3000+ S754 ($160)
Asus K8V ($100)
1GB DDR400 ($110)</font color=green>
Total: <b>$370</b>

<font color=green>A64 3500+ S939 ($346)
Asus A8V Deluxe ($135)
1GB DDR400 ($110)</font color=green>
Total: <b>$480</b>

Other parts include:
<b>GFX 6800 GT 256MB memory ($380)</b>

And at least a 17" monitor, maybe 19". Also considering a sound card for not much more than, say, $50, and reasonably good speakers, possibly 5.1, if I can spare the money to do so... I'm guessing the 3500+ is of course the best choice, but its price also makes it not so accessible... If PCIe video cards could be found, I could consider the <A HREF="http://www.asus.com/products/mb/socket478/p4gd1/overview.htm" target="_new">P4GD1</A>, which is a S478 915P-based mobo with <i>azalia audio</i> and DDR400...

Should I try going with S754?...

I'm also looking into going with a 2.8C P4 because that would probably make the difference in affording better parts for the rest of the system. Like 5.1 speakers and 19" monitor... This is also a good alternative.

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 08:02 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

scottchen

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I guess Asus brainwashed you ehe?

I'd go with option C and just cancel the sound card, after seeing these prices. Just go with a 19" monitor, if budget allows a set of 5.1 speakers. I mean the 3500+ is a nice CPU and socket 939 kicks ass. The A8V has decent onboard sound.


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Mephistopheles

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Thanks... I'll have to check on just how much money I have.

Plus, since I'm not from the US, I have some problem with import taxes... Through official channels, I end up paying twice what would be expected from currency conversion alone... So it's not easy to buy the latest tech.

I've tried to find out if there is a 6800GT with video in, but couldn't do so. I found a X800 XT, a X800 Pro, and so on, but can't seem to find a 6800, 6800GT or 6800 Ultra with video in functionality... Maybe I'll get another card for that... like a TV Wonder Remote Control Edition from Radeon....... It seems a bit silly though... I'll mix ATi with Nvidia and end up spending around $450+ on video functions alone! This is bad... The computer will be in my bedroom, that's why a remote would be a good idea. But if I were to find a 6800GT with video in, I could settle for no remote...

I could also get an ATi card, but the GT is great for Doom 3. And it has all 16 pipelines active, like the 6800U... The alternative would be a X800 Pro. Oh boy, so many choices...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 09:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

scottchen

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I think the 6800GT is a better buy than the X800Pro, but that's just my opinion. I personally have a MSI Tv Tuner it works great, and it has little remote, you can get one off of ebay for about 30-40US.


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Kanavit

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Mephistopheles the choice for cpu, it's up to you. I would of course get a 3.2E prescott or 3.0e. Prescott is newer than old northwood core and same price, it comes with PNI (13 new instructions), SSE3, 1mb L2 cache, 16kb L1, and enhanced hyperthreading.

Remember, AMD A64 3000+ only has 512kb L2 cache, has No hyperthreading, NO SSE3, NO dual channel support, NO 64-bit OS, so what exactly are you paying for??? Higher IPC, and good gaming potential. Also, please remember, we aren't even sure how long s754 will last as a platform, AMD may discontinue this socket in favor of cheaper s939, and you may lose out on PCIe, DDR2!!

While INtel has made i865 with s775, i915 with s478. Intel has never abandoned their consumers and left them to dry, they always provided upgrade path. While AMD on the other hand introduced x86-64 and pretty much ended s462.

In short term , AMD may give you better results. But Intel will last longer in the long run. Something you should consider. The P4 should outperform A64 in video and audio encoding because the A64 has about a 1ghz deficit, and can't keep up with the P4 in this area. A64 may help boost gaming over the P4 by 10%-12%, however does that justify all that the A64 LACKS?? TO me, the answer is NO!

For Graphics card, the answer is obvious . the 6800 GT hands down winner here. SM 3.0, 16 pipes, 222 million transistors, DX 9.0C. This piece will make your system a 'Gaming' system. Games supporting sm 3.0; Doom3, Unreal 3, STALKER, Madden NFL 2005, Farcry, tons more!

When you invest money into a system, make sure you spread out your needs evenly, and not thow all your eggs in one basket.

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1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
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PNY Geforce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3
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Mephistopheles

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When you invest money into a system, make sure you spread out your needs evenly, and not thow all your eggs in one basket.
You're right, Kanavit! However, I might end up trying the 3500+ instead (s939 alright).

As for the GT being the best option, it's mostly OpenGL-driven. Now ATi was too lazy to implement a decent OpenGL driver, I think I'll go with GT, and buy a video-in card. If the difference in Doom 3 wasn't so big, I'd consider a X800 Pro with video in, but it is, so I'll get a video-in card (PCI). Preferably one with a remote.

Current costs... s939 3500+, A8V Deluxe, 1GB DDR400, 6800 GT, Remote Wonder: $893. Not bad, all things considered. Add to that hard drive, monitor, case, power supply, and so on...

<i><font color=red>You never change the existing reality by fighting it. Instead, create a new model that makes the old one obsolete</font color=red> - Buckminster Fuller </i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mephistopheles on 08/08/04 09:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Kanavit

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Yea, s939 is definitely better than s754 atm. Too bad s939 cpus are expensive, but the price should have dropped down some.

I love my PNY verto Geforce 6800 GT atm. 256mb DDR3 is very awesome for new games like Doom3 and Farcry. I might test out doom3 by the end of the weak.

------
Prescott 3.2E 1MB L2 HT
1GB PC 3200 Dual channel(PAT)
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PNY Geforce 6800 GT 256MB DDR3
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pat

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I wouldn't be affraid to go with socket 754, no matter what kanavit said. Socket 462 is quite old now (was there in the time of intel socket370) and is going to disappear soon. Socket 754 will be there for quite some years as it will be the platform for low end sempron processor(amd64 without the 64 bits extension). socket 939 will be for higher specs machines. As for saying that AMD let their consumers down by switching socket, he surely forgot how intel let their customers down when they switch from socket 370 to 423 and later to 478 when they realize that their new P4 processor were a joke and couldnt hold their own against newer Athlon XP. So much for an upgrade path for people that wanted to upgrade their brand new 423 board with newer, faster P4 processor...


Socket 754 simply doesnt have the dual channel capability of socket939. Highest socket 754 cpu now is the 3700+, which should be sufficient for years to come. As for ddr2 and pci-e, dont worry, when they will be mainstream, read in 2-3 years, chipset maker like via, sis, nvidia,... will jump in. the need is simply not there, just as Intel is not in a rush to jump in 64 bits processors. And newer instructions in intel cpu are useless as now as none or only a few software use them. Just like 64 bits extensions. At least, with 64 bits and a beta Win xp 64 with beta 64 bits drivers give you something else to play with if installed on a separate hdd to make sure you dont mess your good installation... As for video editing, well the gap is closing rapidly.

But socket 939 is the best right now. And your 3500+ should last you long time. As well as your video card. But I would get faster memory...just in case you decide to play with overclocking. Instead of the remote wonder, I would get the tv wonder pro 2 that come with the remote and coupled with your 6800 could give you tv and vivo.

A socket 745 board with a 3400+ with 512k cache could be a good option too, saving you a couple of buck to get the tvwonder and a good sound card to have a good gaming rig as well as a good performing computer and home theater that will last you long time too.

Just my 2 cents.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 

phial

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Mephistopheles the choice for cpu, it's up to you. I would of course get a 3.2E prescott or 3.0e. Prescott is newer than old northwood core and same price, it comes with PNI (13 new instructions), SSE3, 1mb L2 cache, 16kb L1, and enhanced hyperthreading.
Kanavit im starting to agree with Scottchen.

Prescott is a newer core, but its slower. WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND. You seem to like the "1mb L2cache, 16kb L1" "SSE3" "enhanced hyperthreading" catch phrases. THE CACHE WAS INCREASED SO THAT IT WOUDLTN SUCK. IT NEEDS IT. ITS NOT AN ADDED "FEATURE". THE P4C ONLY NEEDS 512K, AND ITS STILL GENERALLY FASTER. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MUCH CACHE A CPU HAS, ITS THE END PERFORMANCE THAT MATTERS. btw you have already been told that SSE3 isnt that great of an improvement at all.

Remember, AMD A64 3000+ only has 512kb L2 cache, has No hyperthreading, NO SSE3, NO dual channel support, NO 64-bit OS, so what exactly are you paying for??? Higher IPC, and good gaming potential. Also, please remember, we aren't even sure how long s754 will last as a platform, AMD may discontinue this socket in favor of cheaper s939, and you may lose out on PCIe, DDR2!!
it only has 512kb cache because it doesnt need more to be competitive. its memory controller makes up for it. thats also why it doesnt have dual channel right now, because the memory controller is efficient enough to feed the cpu with only one channel. theres no point in wasting die space and increasing heat if its not needed. again, it does nto matter how much cache a cpu has, what you have to consider is the end perforamnce.

While INtel has made i865 with s775, i915 with s478. Intel has never abandoned their consumers and left them to dry, they always provided upgrade path. While AMD on the other hand introduced x86-64 and pretty much ended s462.
and quit talking about AMD discontinueing socketA, they haev just released a new CPU for it! and its not like Intel hasnt discontinued sockets in teh past. how long did socket423 last? what happend to those Intel customers? s.o.l. meanwhile socketA has been around for years, from the first 600mhz Durons to current mobile AthlonXPs/Semprons. in fact, i think its the longest lived platform yet

theres no way there wont be PCIe motherboards for AMD platform. and DDR2 doesnt offer any performance gains at the clock speeds its currently being released at. proven fact.

In short term , AMD may give you better results. But Intel will last longer in the long run. Something you should consider. The P4 should outperform A64 in video and audio encoding because the A64 has about a 1ghz deficit, and can't keep up with the P4 in this area. A64 may help boost gaming over the P4 by 10%-12%, however does that justify all that the A64 LACKS?? TO me, the answer is NO!
Short term? you can tell the future? my mothers 1gh Duron that i built 4 years ago is still a damn fast Email/Internet computer. my 1700+ is still playign games just fine in my brothers room that i built 2 years ago. and for things other than games, its more than fast enough.

your MHZ statment also proves how ignorant you are. you mention IPC, but you still think that MHZ is important? common dude you are clueless, you are spreading FUD. we keep repeatedly telling you , but you dont seem to learn.


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Cybercraig

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1GB DDR400 ($110)
__________________________________________________________


Is some illegal alien sorting these chips in a kitchen? Where do you get 2 X 512mb of good ram for $110.00? :smile:

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Johanthegnarler

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I'd go intel rig right now only becuase of the motherboard selection. Although the A64 has proved to be a top notch gaming machine. With my 2.6c i haven't realized the difference in any apps i use in comparing to my 2500+@3200+ athlon. So i don't have any way to say HT is good for this or that.

I do a lot of mapping for ut2k3 ut2k4 and i'm starting doom3. Neither system seems to work any better than the other. And i'd definately go Flat CRT, i hate my flat LCD monitor. 600 dollars for it and it blows compared to a 230 dollar CRT.

The only thing video card wise i can say is 6800 looks great, although once again on the newer games i can't really see it being anything special.
I almost want to tell you to wait. But we all know what waiting does.. Lead to more waiting.

Oh yea, NO LESS THAN A GIG OF RAM!

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phial

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haha.. damn americans and their cheap products

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scottchen

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Phial you should've taken your long post into like 8 posts, to bump up your


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