News New USB Logos Show Charging Capabilities Up to 240W

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ThatMouse said:
And a billion usb ports installed around the world go obsolete as they up the voltage.
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Nope. To enable higher voltage, you need USB charger who can enable higher voltages, device who can report a capability to charge in higher voltage modes and a cable capable to deliver enough power. And all high power capable USB cables have chip in one of connectors who return info to charger and devices as acknowledgement that you are using proper cable. Without that charger will stuck to 5V / 2A.
 
ALL USB's have backward compatibility to this point. new power levels though are a problem, at least at description level.

I needed a charger that did 9V and 2.1 amps. that's 20W charger.
Most say 20W capable and that's it, it won't tell you that its 5V4A or 9V2A or 15V1.5A or 20V1A all of them or that any of them is missing.
Its even worse if charger have 2/3 slots, and 9V is only on one of them.
My phone charges with 5 or 9 Apple devices do only 5/12 or 5/20.
I am glad guys like anker show those on each product, but that should be standard info.

IMHO, they should force disclosure of all supported tiers on the packaging if they certify any level. any way that you could know this, if manufacturer suck, would be nice
 
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Krotow said:
Nope. To enable higher voltage, you need USB charger who can enable higher voltages, device who can report a capability to charge in higher voltage modes and a cable capable to deliver enough power. And all high power capable USB cables have chip in one of connectors who return info to charger and devices as acknowledgement that you are using proper cable. Without that charger will stuck to 5V / 2A.
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Actually, the E-Mark chip is only required for current over 3A and USB-PD will happily deliver up to 20V/3A (60W) over plain dumb cables.

For the new 48V "Extended Power Range" stuff, you need new cables with EPR chips in them since the old E-Mark cables have chips and possibly other components only designed for 20V.
 
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Logos will be placed only on the packages of certified cables, hosts, and chargers.
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So how long until we see a recall where the wrong cables were placed in the wrong packages resulting in fires and damaged equipment...They should require a marking on the cable itself if it supports 240w, like one end being solid red.
 
ThatMouse said:
AKA obsolete.
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Considering the vast majority of USB devices don't need that kind of power, I imagine most new USB peripherals, cables and ports will continue to utilize the existing standards for many years to come. A 240 watt-capable USB cable will also likely need to be a lot bulkier than most existing USB cables, so those are only likely to be used for specific hardware that requires them.
 
cryoburner said:
A 240 watt-capable USB cable will also likely need to be a lot bulkier than most existing USB cables, so those are only likely to be used for specific hardware that requires them.
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Not at all. You need bulkier cables to carry more AMPs and the 240W spec is achieved by increasing voltage instead. There is no need for the cables to be any bulkier.

Relatively high voltage in tiny connectors will require clean and dry connectors to prevent connectors from catching on fire from leakage power. 48V going to the wrong place due to dirty connectors could be nasty too. The connector really should have included mechanical guards around V+ pins for this sort of stuff.
 
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InvalidError said:
Not at all. You need bulkier cables to carry more AMPs and the 240W spec is achieved by increasing voltage instead. There is no need for the cables to be any bulkier.

Relatively high voltage in tiny connectors will require clean and dry connectors to prevent connectors from catching on fire from leakage power. 48V going to the wrong place due to dirty connectors could be nasty too. The connector really should have included mechanical guards around V+ pins for this sort of stuff.
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Exactly - USB-PD capable cable rated for 100W power (20V 5A) will carry on with 240W (48V 5A) just fine. Current remain the same. And I already see some other uses for compact 240W capable "charger" (PSU actually). For example joining it with simple lab PSU head will create neat small lab PSU for my DIY needs (I need another one now).

Also in future don't complain about 240W PSU for USB charging price. Good PSU capable to deliver above 20W was never cheap.
 
Krotow said:
Exactly - USB-PD capable cable rated for 100W power (20V 5A) will carry on with 240W (48V 5A) just fine.
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It will only work "just fine" up to 20V/5A since the mandatory cable chips are only designed for 20V and won't have 36/48V profiles in their USB-PD whitelist tables so they won't allow the power adapter's advertisements for more than 20V/5A through.

As for power adapter cost, keep in mind that before PSU prices went nuts, you could regularly get the 550W Seasonic S12-II for $35 or less. A single-rail lower-power USB adapter is much simpler and cheaper to manufacture than that. The crazy prices on known brand's 100W USB-PD adapters is just manufacturers robbing people blind because they can.
 
InvalidError said:
It will only work "just fine" up to 20V/5A since the mandatory cable chips are only designed for 20V and won't have 36/48V profiles in their USB-PD whitelist tables so they won't allow the power adapter's advertisements for more than 20V/5A through.
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Well, I admit that forgot about 20V capable chips in 20V USB-PD cables for a moment .. my bad :) Though cables technically would be able to cope with 240W through 48V voltage just fine, but ... well.

InvalidError said:
As for power adapter cost, keep in mind that before PSU prices went nuts, you could regularly get the 550W Seasonic S12-II for $35 or less. A single-rail lower-power USB adapter is much simpler and cheaper to manufacture than that. The crazy prices on known brand's 100W USB-PD adapters is just manufacturers robbing people blind because they can.
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Maybe. Though I wouldn't want to have fireworks on my desk and burnt device only because some noname manufacturer would spit on quality control in name of corner cutting. Although I admit that sometimes these Chinese nonames are fine enough for DIY. I have lab PSU from known Chinese made Riden RD6006-W + S400W 60V PSU combo which was found as fine for DIY in famous EEVBlog tests. Particular PSU cost 34€ in Banggood. Nearest Mean-Well PSU (Taiwanese origin) with similar properties cost around 200€ here.
 
Krotow said:
Maybe. Though I wouldn't want to have fireworks on my desk and burnt device only because some noname manufacturer would spit on quality control in name of corner cutting.
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Seasonic is a no-name manufacturer? Its S12-II series was among the top-rated models back when it was new 14 years ago and is still considered decent by today's standards. Relatively inexpensive isn't necessarily horrible, the S12-II series only got as cheap as it got because Seasonic has amortized sunk costs behind it over 10+ years of being its mainstream workhorse.

Higher-power USB-PD adapters are expensive mainly due to the early-adopter tax: got all of that R&D and marketing sunk cost to recover and very few potential buyers to recover it from.

There are some Chinese 100W USB-PD adapters out there for ~$15, wonder if they are remotely any good :)
(I don't own any USB-PD devices, so I have no actual intention of finding out.)
 
InvalidError said:
Seasonic is a no-name manufacturer? Its S12-II series was among the top-rated models back when it was new 14 years ago and is still considered decent by today's standards.
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And where I said that S12-II is noname PSU? There are plenty of nonames around though labeled with nice numbers, but in reality most of them are POS.

InvalidError said:
Higher-power USB-PD adapters are expensive mainly due to the early-adopter tax: got all of that R&D and marketing sunk cost to recover and very few potential buyers to recover it from.

There are some Chinese 100W USB-PD adapters out there for ~$15, wonder if they are remotely any good :)
(I don't own any USB-PD devices, so I have no actual intention of finding out.)
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Correct about early adopter tax. Here in Europe add VAT to that.

Those Chinese PD adapters are game of luck. Some are fine indeed, though I will not risk with these without seeing proper review.
 
Krotow said:
And where I said that S12-II is noname PSU? There are plenty of nonames around though labeled with nice numbers, but in reality most of them are POS.
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I was just pointing out that inexpensive yet still quite decent PSUs from world-renowned brands that are orders of magnitude better than typical Chinese crap do exist for a very modest price premium. Take the S12-II, strip the secondary rails, strip APFC (optional for external power adapters), down-size everything else by half and you have a pretty decent 240W single-rail PSU that could be sold for about $35 as long as there is a sufficiently large market to amortize sunk costs on and there isn't another crazy component price hike.
 
hotaru.hino said:
I dunno, my "wimpy" 5V/2A charger seems to be working just fine for me even though my phone supports fast charging.
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I'm not a fan of fast-charging either. I practically never leave my stuff unplugged long enough for slow-charging to be an issue and would welcome options for even slower charging combined with tighter min/max state-of-charge to extend the battery's working life.
 
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