News New Windows 11 Build Removes Classic Start Menu Option

Sep 19, 2020
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I am speechless...
To be fair I have not used Windows 11, BUT judging from the pictures the new start menu is an AWFUL and despicable design decision.I had the unfortunate experience to use a Mac(intosh) Pro at work for the last 2 years and it now looks like Microsoft is going in the same direction.
Let me clarify why the new star menu is awful: Because when we review options on a screen the main purpose is not to spread them evenly across the screen or to give us advise regarding what we want to do. The main purpose should be to give us a compact an easily viewable list with items in a predictable order. The predictability an d compactness is what makes a display of options efficient. Listing options horizontally is universally absolute <Mod Edit>
Listing options horizontally is such a poor idea there should be capital punishment for this specifically.
The ideal position for a menu on a screen, given the user has a mouse, is in the corner of the screen (as is the case for menus of individual application windows) and the ideal way to list the options is vertically.
Recommendations and suggestion? new rule: Never ever tell a user what to do, whether you are apple or Microsoft. Never suggest anything, never use their data. You do not have the permission to know anything about anyone and we don't want your disgusting suggestions ever.
Screw you Microsoft! Screw you royally!!!
 
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ClapTrapper

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Why do they do this? With Win 8 I understood their motivation-they wanted a unified OS that could run on their crappy tablets. And even though MS is one of the giants that sets the music to the dance,they are not immune to hype. They assumed tablets were the future and death of the pc.

But looking at the UI,Win 11 is in the ballpark of Win 10-like Win 95 to Win 98 in terms of UI. Not an Earth shattering change. Not a Win XP to Win 8 transition.

If there are hacks at this early stage of Win 11 to keep a beloved UI item at this very early stage, MS should take notice. People don't like it.
Do not force feed it to them.

Change is fine, but if your customer base is screaming no, you should reconsider what you are doing.
 
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purple_dragon

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It's completely true that every other Windows OS sucks...All though I still like the way Vista looked. Just everything else about it sucked.
 

ClapTrapper

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Think about it. What is an OS for these days? Getting on the Internet.

MS only has a stranglehold on PCs because it is no brain OS if you play games.

The vast majority of PC users cares nothing about Windows versions. They just want to know if they can "surf the web" and email their grandsons.

Linux for the masses is coming. MS needs to be kind to the present customer base.

Hell,even Linux users are finally getting some respect from Devs.
 
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spongiemaster

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Linux for the masses is coming. MS needs to be kind to the present customer base.
No, it isn't. I've been hearing this is the year of the Linux desktop since the late 90's and we're probably further away from it now than 10 or 15 years ago. The overwhelming majority of PC's are sold by OEM's and their desktops are almost all Windows based. The closest we're going to get to a Linux desktop for the masses is either iOS or Chromebooks which own the only part of the market that linux had a chance at.
 
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Linux HAS gotten a lot more "non-nerdy" in the last few years though, and out of the box hardware support has greatly increased. Linux Mint is really approachable and could easily replace Windows systems in many cases, especially in office and home environments where only a limited number of applications will be run, and it would excel in home envrionments where the PC is mostly used for social media, web browsing, and other non intensive tasks because of the inherent security advantages of Linux vs Windows.
 

Heat_Fan89

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No, it isn't. I've been hearing this is the year of the Linux desktop since the late 90's and we're probably further away from it now than 10 or 15 years ago. The overwhelming majority of PC's are sold by OEM's and their desktops are almost all Windows based. The closest we're going to get to a Linux desktop for the masses is either iOS or Chromebooks which own the only part of the market that linux had a chance at.
That’s quite possible but many seem to forget that a really good majority of PC users do just the basics and Windows, MacOS or Linux can do the job quite well. Taking Linux Mint as an example, it looks and feels just like Windows 7 with it’s Start Menu. It’s pretty quick, it looks modern and gets the job done if a user just wants to jump on the internet, do email etc., and it’s free. As far as security, I prefer and trust Linux more than Windows or MacOS. My two favorite distros are still Linux Mint and openSUSE.

Where Windows shines is integrating their PC and gaming platforms. It has NO equal and the integration continues to improve. I personally will only jump to W11 if my games will run faster, if not my gaming rigs will stay on W10.
 
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spongiemaster

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Linux HAS gotten a lot more "non-nerdy" in the last few years though, and out of the box hardware support has greatly increased. Linux Mint is really approachable and could easily replace Windows systems in many cases, especially in office and home environments where only a limited number of applications will be run, and it would excel in home envrionments where the PC is mostly used for social media, web browsing, and other non intensive tasks because of the inherent security advantages of Linux vs Windows.
I agree on your assessment of Linux' increase in ease of use since the earlier days, but it is irrelevant. No OS will ever gain mainstream acceptance without major OEM support. Linux missed the boat when Chromebooks hit the market with support from the big OEM's. The ultra cheap/lowend market with everything stripped out for simplicity was the market Linux needed to target to gain a foot hold against MS. Chromebook took that market, and now there is nowhere for Linux to go.
 
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spongiemaster

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That’s quite possible but many seem to forget that a really good majority of PC users do just the basics and Windows, MacOS or Linux can do the job quite well. Taking Linux Mint as an example, it looks and feels just like Windows 7 with it’s Start Menu. It’s pretty quick, it looks modern and gets the job done if a user just wants to jump on the internet, do email etc., and it’s free.
Being free is irrelevant unless a user is buying a retail version of Windows which would be stupid. The major OEM's are only paying a few bucks for their Windows licenses so they contribute almost nothing to the cost of a retail desktop.

Used i5-4570 8GB RAM, wifi, gb ethernet with legal Windows 10 Pro license for $120. Add a $30 250GB SSD and for $150 you have a perfectly usable legal Windows system for the basics. You could not build a faster Linux system for equal or less even though the OS is free.

Dell Optiplex 7010 SFF
 
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C.wolf

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Apr 20, 2019
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I am speechless...
To be fair I have not used Windows 11, BUT judging from the pictures the new start menu is an AWFUL and despicable design decision.I had the unfortunate experience to use a Mac(intosh) Pro at work for the last 2 years and it now looks like Microsoft is going in the same direction.
Let me clarify why the new star menu is awful: Because when we review options on a screen the main purpose is not to spread them evenly across the screen or to give us advise regarding what we want to do. The main purpose should be to give us a compact an easily viewable list with items in a predictable order. The predictability an d compactness is what makes a display of options efficient. Listing options horizontally is universally absolute <Mod Edit>
Listing options horizontally is such a poor idea there should be capital punishment for this specifically.
The ideal position for a menu on a screen, given the user has a mouse, is in the corner of the screen (as is the case for menus of individual application windows) and the ideal way to list the options is vertically.
Recommendations and suggestion? new rule: Never ever tell a user what to do, whether you are apple or Microsoft. Never suggest anything, never use their data. You do not have the permission to know anything about anyone and we don't want your disgusting suggestions ever.
Screw you Microsoft! Screw you royally!!!
I have been putting my taskbar on the left edge since I can remember.
I can't find a way to do that with W11. For me that's a Deal-breaker.
 

Heat_Fan89

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Jul 13, 2020
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Being free is irrelevant unless a user is buying a retail version of Windows which would be stupid. The major OEM's are only paying a few bucks for their Windows licenses so they contribute almost nothing to the cost of a retail desktop.

Used i5-4570 8GB RAM, wifi, gb ethernet with legal Windows 10 Pro license for $120. Add a $30 250GB SSD and for $150 you have a perfectly usable legal Windows system for the basics. You could not build a faster Linux system for equal or less even though the OS is free.

Dell Optiplex 7010 SFF
My focus was not whether Linux is free or not. For the average user Linux, Windows or MacOS gets the job done. If a user just wants to use the internet, email, watch YT videos, listen to music, play Steam games that have Linux support, make documents or notes Linux is just as capable as the others.
 
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brandonjclark

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Back on topic, the idea of removing the classic start menu is atrocious for one simple reason, businesses.

Some enterprises decided to skip Windows 8 (and it's 2012 server counterpart) entirely. This meant that a lot of enterprises decided NOT to buy into a full maintenance contract with annual upgrade rights. They chose instead to just keep paying for Win7 licenses and Server 2008.

The same choice could be made here. Enterprises like stability, and getting yanked around by Microsoft is NOT one of their favorite things. I ASSURE YOU.
 

hotaru251

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I personally will only jump to W11 if my games will run faster, if not my gaming rigs will stay on W10
exactly.
The only 2 thigns i am interested in are the native android app (via amazon store) support and the BEST thing for WIN11....Direct storage...and that wont have supported games for likely 1-2yrs at earliest but that will be a future requirement as games need to load more data and avoid loading screens.
 
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Giroro

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Linux HAS gotten a lot more "non-nerdy" in the last few years though, and out of the box hardware support has greatly increased. Linux Mint is really approachable and could easily replace Windows systems in many cases, especially in office and home environments where only a limited number of applications will be run, and it would excel in home envrionments where the PC is mostly used for social media, web browsing, and other non intensive tasks because of the inherent security advantages of Linux vs Windows.
I think the problem is less that Linux is nerdy, and more that people (including nerds like me) are lazy.

Personally, I hate Linux because I absolutely hate having to type 90 characters into a terminal when I just want to double click an icon - and I usually only find out that clicking didn't run with the right -flags after trying it the normal way and scratching my head for awhile to see what failed. I also do not want to have to memorize the file path for every file and program in the computer.
My point is that some people like a text based interface, but the overwhelming 99.99% of people do not. Yes you get more control, but it's a far less efficient/usable interface.

Linux is never going to gain popularity until they can get the amount of mandatory terminal usage down from "multiple times an hour" to "never". In the very least, give us GUI users some kind of "open in terminal" right-click option. Until more devs figure that out, Microsoft can continue to let their worst engineers do "whatever they want" to Windows.
Apparently what they want is a try-hard reskin to make it look like something changed, when in fact they still haven't fixed a single underlying problem with the OS.
The Windows Devs can't let the average dum-dum change the GUI, because then their bosses might realize that in 10 years they still haven't been able to fugue out how make a functional settings menu.
 

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