Newbie - Questions again

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hi all,

I need some clarification on a couple of points.

I am playing a Red/Plains and my opponent is playing a Green/Plains.

As permanants out on the field of I have
Lightning Elemental
Spikeshot Goblin

and in my hand I have
Sudden Impact
Blaze
Pyrotechnics


On my opponents next turn he plays
Circle of Protection Red

So my questions are:
What can I play that cannot be stopped by CoP?
Can my opponent tap his CoP multiple times to "build up" an immunity?
(He said that since he had 4 Plains he could tap each one in succession,
same turn, and stop the "next 4" sources of damage - this does not seem
right to me)

Can someone explain what CoP can do?

Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
(Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
target creature or player)
What does this mean? It has 1/2 and I assume that if I equipe it or modify
it in any way - I would get to play it with the "added" stuff. So why would
I pay 1M and tap it?


Thanks,
NazMan
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I need some clarification on a couple of points.
>
> I am playing a Red/Plains and my opponent is playing a Green/Plains.

This is unusual terminology. Most people would say red/white and
green/white.

> As permanants out on the field of I have
> Lightning Elemental
> Spikeshot Goblin

Lightning Elemental
{3}{R}
Creature -- Elemental
4/1
Haste

Spikeshot Goblin
{2}{R}
Creature -- Goblin Shaman
1/2
{R}, {T}: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to target
creature or player.

> and in my hand I have
> Sudden Impact
> Blaze
> Pyrotechnics

Sudden Impact
{3}{R}
Instant
Sudden Impact deals damage equal to the number of cards in target
player's hand to that player.

Blaze
{X}{R}
Sorcery
Blaze deals X damage to target creature or player.

Pyrotechnics
{4}{R}
Sorcery
Pyrotechnics deals 4 damage divided as you choose among any number of
target creatures and/or players.

> On my opponents next turn he plays
> Circle of Protection Red

Circle of Protection: Red
{1}{W}
Enchantment
{1}: The next time a red source of your choice would deal damage to you
this turn, prevent that damage.

> So my questions are:
> What can I play that cannot be stopped by CoP?

Anything that is not red or does something other than damage or inflicts
damage somewhere other than the opponent. Note that Spikeshot Goblin,
Blaze, and Pyrotechnics can each be used to damage a creature. And
Demystify is perfectly usable.

> Can my opponent tap his CoP multiple times to "build up" an immunity?

How is he tapping the Circle of Protection? And why?

> (He said that since he had 4 Plains he could tap each one in succession,
> same turn, and stop the "next 4" sources of damage - this does not seem
> right to me)

Your opponent has to name each red source as the Circle of Protection
ability resolves. And he can't name a card which is still in your hand.
(Why are you specifically mentioning Plains here? Is he playing green
cards without Forests somehow?)

> Can someone explain what CoP can do?

What it says it does.

As part of the resolution of the activated ability, its controller
chooses a red source. If that source would deal damage to that player
(not one of that player's creatures) later that turn, the damage is
prevented that one time.

419.8. Sources of Damage

419.8a Some effects apply to damage from a source--for example, "The
next time a red source of your choice would deal damage to you this
turn, prevent that damage." If an effect requires a player to choose a
source, he or she may choose either a permanent, a spell on the stack
(including an artifact, creature, or enchantment spell), or any card or
permanent referred to by a spell or ability on the stack. The source is
chosen when the effect is created. If the player chooses a permanent,
the prevention will apply to the next damage from that permanent,
regardless of whether it's from one of that permanent's abilities or
combat damage dealt by it. If the player chooses an artifact, creature,
or enchantment spell, the prevention will apply to any damage from that
spell and from the permanent that it becomes when it resolves.

> Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
> (Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
> target creature or player)

"M"??

> What does this mean?

It means what it says. If you play the ability, you name a target, pay
a red mana, and tap the Spikeshot Goblin. When the ability resolves, it
deals damage equal to the Spikeshot Goblin's power to that target.

> It has 1/2 and I assume that if I equipe it or modify
> it in any way - I would get to play it with the "added" stuff.

If the power is changed, the power is changed.

> So why would
> I pay 1M and tap it?

"1M"??

You would pay a red mana and tap it in order to deal damage to a
creature or player.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daniel W. Johnson (panoptes@iquest.net) wrote:
: NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:

: > Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
: > (Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
: > target creature or player)

: "M"??

I'd hazard a guess that here "M" stands for "Mountain"; it's far from the
first time I've heard/seen mana colours referred to as the corresponding
basic land by newer players (particularly more recently, with the basic
lands' text consisting of only a very large mana symbol...) to give a
colour wheel of M,P,F,S,I instead of R,W,G,B,U.


Keith
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

> I am playing a Red/Plains and my opponent is playing a Green/Plains.

You mean "red/white" and "green/white" decks.

> As permanants out on the field of I have
> Lightning Elemental
> Spikeshot Goblin
>
> and in my hand I have
> Sudden Impact
> Blaze
> Pyrotechnics
>
>
> On my opponents next turn he plays
> Circle of Protection Red
>
> So my questions are:
> What can I play that cannot be stopped by CoP?
> Can my opponent tap his CoP multiple times to "build up" an immunity?
> (He said that since he had 4 Plains he could tap each one in succession,
> same turn, and stop the "next 4" sources of damage - this does not seem
> right to me)

It may not seem right but it IS right. CoPs don't say they can only be
used once a turn, so you can use them as much as you have mana to pay for.
You may feel that this one card completely hoses you, and you'd be
correct... since the dawn of Magic, red players have groaned at the sight of
CoP Reds. All those cards you list can have their damage prevented by the
CoP, but note that CoPs only prevent damage to players so creatures are
still available to be blasted. You said your deck is red/white though, so
you can use white creatures to attack or cast spells like Disenchant to
destroy the CoP. Artifact creatures work too, or artifacts like Nevinyrral's
Disk can destroy the CoP too. Or destroy his lands so he has no mana to pay
for the CoP.

> Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
> (Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
> target creature or player)
> What does this mean? It has 1/2 and I assume that if I equipe it or modify
> it in any way - I would get to play it with the "added" stuff. So why
would
> I pay 1M and tap it?

Uh, you would pay and tap it to do damage to something, I assume. And
yes, if you change its power via equipment or some other effect, that will
change the damage it deals with its ability.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Hi all,
>
> I need some clarification on a couple of points.
>
> I am playing a Red/Plains and my opponent is playing a Green/Plains.

A red/plains *what*? Deck, I assume - but in that case you probably
mean red/white.

> As permanants out on the field of I have
> Lightning Elemental
> Spikeshot Goblin
>
> and in my hand I have
> Sudden Impact
> Blaze
> Pyrotechnics
>
>
> On my opponents next turn he plays
> Circle of Protection Red
>
> So my questions are:
> What can I play that cannot be stopped by CoP?

All of the ways of damaging your opponent that you currently have
available can be prevented by the Circle. However, if you hit him with
all of them in rapid succession, hopefully he'll run out of mana before
you run out of burn. Also, if you have white in your deck, there are
numerous cards you could use that can destroy an enchantment. Also,
keep in mind that the Circle does nothing to protect his creatures.

> Can my opponent tap his CoP multiple times to "build up" an immunity?

Taking that question literally, no, since barring certain cards such as
Fire/Ice, he can't *tap* the CoP at all (and if he somehow does, nothing
special happens).

If you mean can he *activate* it multiple times, which does *not*
involve tapping it, then yes, he can. But keep in mind that all of the
"shields" he creates in this way go away at the end of the turn (that's
why it says "The next time *this turn*" on the CoP).

> (He said that since he had 4 Plains he could tap each one in succession,
> same turn, and stop the "next 4" sources of damage - this does not seem
> right to me)

Sure, he can. Why not?

> Can someone explain what CoP can do?

Each time your opponent pays one mana to activate it, it creates a
"shield" on your opponent, which prevents all the damage that would be
dealt to him by the next red source that tries to deal damage to him.
If several would do so at once (which normally only happens in combat,
if you have more than once unblocked attacking creature), he gets to
pick which one. There is no limit to the number of times this can
happen in one turn other than your opponent's ability to pay, but all
unused shields go away at the end of each turn.

It can only protect the player who controls it. If he tries to use it
to protect his creatures, you politely point out that he can't do that,
and back up as per the rules for handling illegal actions.

Lots of new players find the CoPs very powerful, and in the case of
CoP:Red they're right (it makes it into the sideboards of tournament
decks from time to time), but they're actually not that hard to play
around, destroy or if all else fails, just overwhelm. Your opponent
can't hold back all his mana for the CoP, not if he actually wants to
play anything that helps him win the game...

> Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
> (Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
> target creature or player)
> What does this mean? It has 1/2 and I assume that if I equipe it or modify
> it in any way - I would get to play it with the "added" stuff. So why would
> I pay 1M and tap it?

As opposed to attacking with it, you mean? Lots of reasons. You can do
it any time. You get to pick the target. The goblin can't be blocked
if you do this. Any one of those would, under most circumstances, be
enough to make its ability much better than just attacking.

For example, if your opponent has some 1-toughness creature with a
really annoying ability, for example Benalish Trapper, and you attack
with the goblin, he is *NOT* going to block with it, unless it's his
only alternative to dying. But by using the Goblin's ability, you can
blow away the Trapper anyway, whenever it suits you.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> sent:
> Hi all,
> I need some clarification on a couple of points.

> I am playing a Red/Plains and my opponent is playing a Green/Plains.

As others have noted, it's unusual to mix names of basic land and names
of colours to describe a deck. One would typically describe a deck in
this way by mentioning its colours only - especially as there are more
ways to make mana than just the basic lands.

> As permanants out on the field of I have
> Lightning Elemental
> Spikeshot Goblin

Some red creatures.

> and in my hand I have
> Sudden Impact
> Blaze
> Pyrotechnics

A red instant and two red sorceries, all of which deal damage; Sudden
Impact only to players, Blaze to one creature or player, Pyrotechnics
to up to 4 creatures/players.

> On my opponents next turn he plays
> Circle of Protection Red

OK, once that gets into play, it has an activated ability that prevents
damage from a red source:

Circle of Protection: Red {1}{W} Enchantment
{1}: The next time a red source of your choice would deal damage to
you this turn, prevent that damage.

> So my questions are:
> What can I play that cannot be stopped by CoP?

Once the CoP: Red is in play, your opponent will be able to prevent
damage from as many red sources as he has mana to spend.

> Can my opponent tap his CoP multiple times to "build up" an immunity?

He can't tap the CoP for any particular effect. What he can do is
announce its activated ability (the '{1}: The next time...' one) and
pay for it using mana that is obtained by playing a mana ability of
a land, and paying for that ability requires him to tap that land.
The CoP's ability will go on the stack and wait there to resolve, just
like any spell would.

When the activated ability resolves, your opponent chooses a source to
prevent the damage from. This can be a permanent (e.g. one of your
creatures) a spell or ability already on the stack (so if you play the
Blaze, he can respond by using the CoP ability), or something referred
to by a spell or ability on the stack. As long as a legal source was
chosen, then the next time that source would damage him this turn,
the damage is instead prevented.

> (He said that since he had 4 Plains he could tap each one in succession,
> same turn, and stop the "next 4" sources of damage - this does not seem
> right to me)

He would have to name sources that were legal to name when each of the
CoP abilities resolves. If he indeed does so, naming (for example)
a number of creatures in play, then you are free to hit him on the
head with your Blaze. Typically, a player will wait until the last
possible moment to use an ability like CoP, i.e. when the next thing
that would otherwise happen would be the spell, ability or combat
damage that they want to prevent damage from.

> Can someone explain what CoP can do?

> Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
> (Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
> target creature or player)

Spikeshot Goblin {2}{R} Creature -- Goblin Shaman 1/2
{R}, {T}: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to target
creature or player.

There is a standard set of abbreviations for the representation of
mana symbols in text - R, B, U, G, W for red, black, blue, green and
white. I copied the above text from the Oracle card listings at

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/oracle

> What does this mean? It has 1/2 and I assume that if I equipe it or modify
> it in any way - I would get to play it with the "added" stuff. So why would
> I pay 1M and tap it?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'play it' here - it sounds like
you mean 'attack with it', so I'll explain on that basis.

Normally you would use a creature during combat to attack or block,
and it would deal damage equal to its power to opponent or to blocking
creatures. If it were blocked, the blocker would also deal damage to
the Spikeshot Goblin, so there is a risk that just sending it into
combat would kill it. But, the Spikeshot Goblin also has an activated
ability. You can announce this ability, select a creature or player,
pay the cost of {R} and tap, and when the ability resolves, damage
equal to the Spikeshot Goblin's power will be dealt, like a little
missile, to the target you selected. The Spikeshot Goblin won't be
at risk of being killed by a blocking creature this way. Also, you
can wait until after combat, or until an opponent is attacking you,
before using this ability.

--
-- zoe
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:31:00 GMT, NazMan <cnazario@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>I am playing a Red/Plains and my opponent is playing a Green/Plains.

Um, I assume by this you're trying to say you're playing a red-and-white
deck, and opponent's is green-and-white?

>As permanants out on the field of I have
> Lightning Elemental Spikeshot Goblin
>and in my hand I have
> Sudden Impact Blaze Pyrotechnics
>
>On my opponents next turn he plays
> Circle of Protection Red
>
>So my questions are:
> What can I play that cannot be stopped by CoP?

All the cards/permanents you mention are red. Any of them that try to deal
damage to _him_ can get that damage prevented by a Circle: Red's prevention
shield.

> Can my opponent tap his CoP multiple times to "build up" an immunity?

He can't tap the _Circle_ at all.

He can _use the Circle's ability_ multiple times, sure, and can name a
different source each time on resolution, making multiple shields against
damage from the different sources.

Note that
a) he can only pick: i) permanents in play ii) spells on the stack
and iii) any object referred to by a spell or ability on the stack, as a
"source". In particular, he can't usually pick a card in your hand as a
red source, even if it's a red card and he knows it's there for some reason...
but once you cast it and it's a spell on the stack he can certainly use his
Circle in response to the spell.
and
b) the shield made by a Circle: Red lasts only until end of turn... so he
can "build up shields" for -this turn- just fine but they'll all be vanished
away once the next player's turn starts.

>(He said that since he had 4 Plains he could tap each one in succession,
>same turn, and stop the "next 4" sources of damage - this does not seem
>right to me)

That's not right, not as stated. First, he doesn't have to use a Plains to get
the mana from; the Circle: Red's ability costs 1 to use, not W. He can use
green mana from his Forests just fine also to pay that cost. Second, he MUST
pick a source on resolution of the Circle's ability (and it must be a red
source); he can't make 'a generic shield against the next red source whatever
it is', Circle: Red doesn't say he can do so. (Compare it with Circle of
Solace's wording, which _does_ say "The next time a creature of the chosen type\
would deal damage to you this turn, prevent that damage.", to see the
difference...)

But he can certainly use the Circle four times and make four shields, and have
two of them be against the two creatures you have. If there's no other red
sources where he can choose them (as enumerated above) he could make two
shields for the Goblin and two for the Elemental, if he wanted... but both
would only last until end of turn, if not used. He'd be smarter to make
one shield for the Goblin, one shield for the Elemental, then wait and see
if you cast any red spells, for example...

>Also, in regards to Spikeshot Goblin:
> (Text: M,T: Spikeshot Goblin deals damage equal to its power to
>target creature or player)
>What does this mean? It has 1/2 and I assume that if I equipe it or modify
>it in any way - I would get to play it with the "added" stuff. So why would
>I pay 1M and tap it?

Red mana, produced by mountains, is usually abbreviated "R". As you note, if
something changes the power of the Goblin, its ability will use the modified
power, not just the "1" printed on the card. You would use its ability if
you didn't want to attack or block with it - if you wanted to just deal damage
directly to a =specific= creature or player. (Say your opponent has made six
0/1 flying Pest artifact creature tokens with his Nuisance Engine, so that
your Goblin has no chance of getting through unblocked if it were to attack;
you could use the ability to kill off one of the Pest tokens - he can't
prevent damage to THEM with his Circle - or you could wait until he was
tapped out and didn't have any more mana he could get from anywhere to feed
to his Circle and THEN use the Goblin to damage him directly. For example.)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
>> Can someone explain what CoP can do?
>
>Each time your opponent pays one mana to activate it, it creates a
>"shield" on your opponent, which prevents all the damage that would be
>dealt to him by the next red source that tries to deal damage to him.

Careful; as stated this is NOT true.

>If several would do so at once (which normally only happens in combat,
>if you have more than once unblocked attacking creature), he gets to
>pick which one.

And this is not true at all.

He picks the source -on resolution of the Circle ability- and can't change
which source the shield will protect against later; he can pick a different
source each time he uses the Circle, but doesn't get "generic prevention
shields against the next damage from any red thing" at all.

> There is no limit to the number of times this can
>happen in one turn other than your opponent's ability to pay, but all
>unused shields go away at the end of each turn.

Right.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zoe Stephenson <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote:
>When the activated ability resolves, your opponent chooses a source to
>prevent the damage from. This can be a permanent (e.g. one of your
>creatures) a spell or ability already on the stack (so if you play the
>Blaze, he can respond by using the CoP ability), or something referred
>to by a spell or ability on the stack.

Nitpick: he can't pick an ability on the stack as a source. But this is
okay, because abilities themselves can NEVER deal damage; they always, if
you look, tell something _else_ to deal the damage.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

David DeLaney, worshipped by llamas the world over, wrote...
> Jeff Heikkinen <oh@s.if> wrote:
> >> Can someone explain what CoP can do?
> >
> >Each time your opponent pays one mana to activate it, it creates a
> >"shield" on your opponent, which prevents all the damage that would be
> >dealt to him by the next red source that tries to deal damage to him.
>
> Careful; as stated this is NOT true.
>
> >If several would do so at once (which normally only happens in combat,
> >if you have more than once unblocked attacking creature), he gets to
> >pick which one.
>
> And this is not true at all.
>
> He picks the source -on resolution of the Circle ability- and can't change
> which source the shield will protect against later; he can pick a different
> source each time he uses the Circle, but doesn't get "generic prevention
> shields against the next damage from any red thing" at all.

Grr. I was thinking of a different scenario (a Spikeshot Goblin
connundrum that was posted on this group a while back, I think). It
must have involved some form of damage prevention other than a CoP.

So I *should* have said:

Each time your opponent pays one mana to activate it, it creates a
"shield" on your opponent. Your opponent must pick a red source for
this "shield" to protect him against - this can be a permanent in play,
like Spikeshot Goblin, or a spell on the stack, like your Blaze if you
have just cast it, or any other red entity that either of these refers
to, but not a card in your hand, even if he knows it's there. The
shield prevents all the damage that would be dealt to him the next time
that particular red source tries to deal damage to him. There is no
limit to the number of times this can happen in one turn other than your
opponent's ability to pay, but all unused shields go away at the end of
each turn.