[SOLVED] Newly assembled desktop CPU heating up

[rajeshja]

I recently assembled my desktop into an old case. The configuration is:
i5 9600K
Asus Prime B360M-A
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000MHz C16
Western Digital Green PC 240GB M.2 SATA III
Deepcool ALTA7 CPU Cooler

I'm using Arctic Silver 5 for the TIM.

Now the computer worked well for a few days. I'm running Windows 10 Pro, and mainly intend the computer for playing and learning to develop games, but I'm still looking for a good deal on a graphics card (mostly one of GTX 1650 or 1660).
In the meanwhile I've downloaded and am playing around with Unreal Engine 4.

Yesterday I was fiddling with a tutorial in UE4 where I had loaded a Paragon character (pretty complex one) and was designing a landscape, and for the first time the machine locked up. On rebooting it complained that the CPU was too hot. I let it cool down, took off the cooler, cleaned the cooler and CPU both with 99% isopropyl alcohol, reapplied the thermal paste and reattached the cooler. I did this a couple of times because the first time I'd not put enough paste and the idle temperature of the CPU (just loading the BIOS, not booting into the OS) was around 52℃. After reapplying the thermal paste and attaching the cooler a couple of times, I got the idle temperature down to 42-45℃.
Today I downloaded and ran the Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool and all tests passed. The temperature reported in most of the tests was 89-100℃, though. The first two tests were at between 55-62℃.

I then waited for a while before I loaded the UE4 project again. The PC locked up twice, requiring a reboot. I've not turned it on again since then.

Now here are the reasons I could come up with for this happening:

1. I've assembled a desktop for the first time, so it's quite possible I've messed up attaching the cooler. Too much or too little paste or air bubbles.
2. The CPU cooler isn't pressing down on the CPU tightly enough, so the paste isn't spreading as much as it should. Is this possible? The cooler seems snug enough after the push pins lock in place.
3. My current configuration simply isn't good enough to use UE4 without a dedicated graphics card. But then shouldn't it just run slowly rather than overheating the CPU?
4. My case fan isn't currently working and needs replacing. The case is full size though, and the motherboard temperature stays at low to mid 30s, so I'm not sure if this is relevant.

Which one of these is more likely? And how do I go about figuring out what is happening? Are the idle and test temperatures I'm seeing normal or too high?

Note: I am NOT overclocking - my motherboard doesn't support it.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[DavidM012]

'tis but a $5 cooler p'raps a trifle inadequate to your needs. One of the 4 pipe budget air coolers should do a better job of it. Anyway just searching your cooler pulled up a selection that might interest you, perhaps some reviews will help you decide which one to purchase.

I'm not for recommending a product, dunno what your likes are, or whether you might find something on sale, either way reading a bit about coolers should help you find out what to look for.

It's a desktop so you'd probably want one of the low profile versions, for example. What is the specified cooler clearance of your desktop chassis?

 

[jeremyj_83]

Your CPU cooler is inadequate for that CPU. You should look at things that are a bit more expensive. Depending on your clearance there are quite a few good ones to choose from, like the Cooler Master 212 EVO, if it will fit in your case, for around $30.

 

[retroforlife]

they are right cpu cooler your using is to basic need a lot more mass to move the heat away from the cpu i would try some thing better bigger 🤔

if its not the heat sink could check your cpu is flat i know some cpu that have been delidded can have a less then perfect bumb on the IHS shield if the cpu is used second hand etc just a thought

 

[Harry Dane]

Now here are the reasons I could come up with for this happening:

1. I've assembled a desktop for the first time, so it's quite possible I've messed up attaching the cooler. Too much or too little paste or air bubbles.
2. The CPU cooler isn't pressing down on the CPU tightly enough, so the paste isn't spreading as much as it should. Is this possible? The cooler seems snug enough after the push pins lock in place.
3. My current configuration simply isn't good enough to use UE4 without a dedicated graphics card. But then shouldn't it just run slowly rather than overheating the CPU?
4. My case fan isn't currently working and needs replacing. The case is full size though, and the motherboard temperature stays at low to mid 30s, so I'm not sure if this is relevant.

Which one of these is more likely? And how do I go about figuring out what is happening? Are the idle and test temperatures I'm seeing normal or too high?

All of these + the fact that your cooler isn't strong enough. Buy a new cooler and make sure to put it on correctly. Most populair coolers have plenty of youtube videos to find where you can see how to properly mount them. The amount of thermal paste applied should be the size of a small pea, don't touch it or spread it, just put the cooler on and tighten it. And you should at least have one functioning fan, motherboards don't get that warm so that's not really relevant. Your CPU cooler needs a good supply of fresh air. I think your current config, if properly cooled, should be good enough.

 

[DavidM012]

I was going to suggest the aab fans if you can get them, but I don't know what size fits your desktop chassis, does it have a make and model or anything, but 70mm would probably fit a desktop. Can you measure it's dimensions with a ruler, if you don't have a spec sheet for it, or a link with a photo of it or something that says what it is? Any grilles or vent plates with screw holes in them to indicate what size fan fits?

I would go with both the larger cooler and an intake and an exhaust, the fan three pack would be great and they are silent, if you can get them, and you will also need a pwm splitter, as you only have 2cha fan headers on your mobo, and 1 cpu fan header. You can plug in 3 single fans or 4 if you double one header with a splitter. The ones with the braided sleeves are also quite durable. So 1 header for the cpu cooler fan and 2+1 for 3 cha fans.

The 9600k pulls a modest 170w under load but the deepcool alta is a 65w cooler far below the necessary specifications, and running the cpu 'til it overheats is simply a bad idea in the history of bad ideas.

 

[rajeshja]

Thanks a lot for this, folks. I did all the research without taking advice so I knew I was going to make a mistake somewhere.

I looked at this page of the Deep Cool website:
http://www.deepcool.com/product/cpucooler/2013-12/7_208.shtml
It says the cooler is suitable for Intel Socket 95W.

And the Intel page for the CPU:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-9600k-processor-9m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html

This says TDP is 95W.

Where should I look for power draw under load, next time?

The case would have a lot of space for a larger fan except that there is this plastic tube above the fan that leads to a grill on the case body I'm guessing for ventilation. I believe the tube can be unscrewed but I will check and send photos later today.

 

[DavidM012]

Power consumption read several rather than one or two, estimates range from 125-170w lol I looked at the spec page but didn't see the 95w line, so I searched it and some other sales page said 65w oh well, the tdp of the cpu is the tdp at idle, I don't know why cpu manufacturers put the idle tdp as the spec tdp. They don't take account of the boost clock for some reason.

Power consumption and tdp aren't the same thing but I'm pretty sure that the law of conservation of energy means the cpu will output roughly the amount of heat equal to the amount of power it's using. If you had a cooler that was double the peak load tdp of the cpu, it still wouldn't cool it to ambient temps. They run hot, particular intels. On Jay's 2 cents, they rigged up 4x480mm rads on a intel cpu think it was 8700k, that had 2500w cooling capacity, and the cpu was still 70c, while the gpu was running at ambient. You lose a bit of heat transfer efficiency from the integrated heat spreader & the small die size of the cpu, where the gpu has a larger die and also no ihs but direct contact to the heat plate of the cooler. That's why overclockers de-lid their cpus. It is actually technically impossible to have a perfectly efficient cpu cooler but it's more or less the nearly 'least worst' option to have the copper integrated heat spreader, with a heatsink.

Anyway you can see for yourself that your "95" watt cooler? Is getting a bit toasty on your "95w" cpu. You aren't running at peak load all the time, but a couple of hours gaming warms it up nicely.

So the case has a funnel over the cpu fan to draw in air probably? Well you can dot fans around the system wherever as long as your desk doesn't wobble to knock them over, but a couple of intake and 1 exhaust, but the fans have magnets in the centre spindle so you can't put them near a hard drive as that would interfere with it's operation. Maybe you can use the funnel or maybe you could make do with 1 fan intake and 1 exhaust sry I don't pay attention to air flow because I leave the side panels off my pc & simply have a few 120mm's huffing in various directions on the mobo, to replace air flow from an aircooler because it's water cooled.

Let's see the snaps and get some clues where fans could be attached, or simply stood up by themselves even, near a vent of some sort.

 

[truegenius]

your cooler is inadequate also your board is not suitable for 9600k, asus went cheap on that board. Its VRM will be cooking and will cook your cpu too during load.

If you are willing to keep that board then a better cooler with downward airflow will be better.
Though i would recommend to get a z390 board with good VRM with heatsink on VRM along with a better cooler like atleast 212 evo

If you have infrared thermameter then you can check load temps of motherboard VRM area

 

[jeremyj_83]

Thanks a lot for this, folks. I did all the research without taking advice so I knew I was going to make a mistake somewhere.

I looked at this page of the Deep Cool website:
http://www.deepcool.com/product/cpucooler/2013-12/7_208.shtml
It says the cooler is suitable for Intel Socket 95W.

And the Intel page for the CPU:
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-9600k-processor-9m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html

This says TDP is 95W.

Where should I look for power draw under load, next time?

The case would have a lot of space for a larger fan except that there is this plastic tube above the fan that leads to a grill on the case body I'm guessing for ventilation. I believe the tube can be unscrewed but I will check and send photos later today.

Intel bases their TDP off of the base clock of the CPU only. During normal usage you can figure the actual TDP of their CPUs to be roughly double what they state. Before Intel went to 6+ cores their TDP was very accurate for total TDP during normal usage. Problem is the Core architecture is efficient for 4 CPU cores but loses efficiency quickly once more cores are added. AMD's TDP is usually accurate for total TDP during normal usage, within a margin of error. For example the 2700X is a 105W TDP and review sites found a max of 115W draw, whereas the 2950X is a 180W CPU and max draw was 178W.

 

[geofelt]

Your 9600K runs, doesn't it??
That is what is meant by ok.
There are two problems here.

1. The cooler is inadequate in the first place for a 9600K that can run at very high clocks if you let it.

2. Your installation is faulty. Even such a poor cooler should be showing 10-15c. over ambient at idle.
Some possible problems.

a) Using too much thermal paste is a mistake. The purpose of paste is to fill in microscopic air pits in the metal mating surfaces. Air is a very poor conductor of heat. Paste is better, but not nearly as good as metal to metal contact.
A small rice sized drop in the center will spread out under heat and pressure.
Clean off the old with alcohol before repasting.

b) Pushpins are tricky to mount and easy to get on unevenly. The trick is to press down on a diagonal pair simultaneously.

c) Check that all 4 pins are through the motherboard and locked. You need to look at the back side of the motherboard to verify.

d) What is your case and fan arrangement?
Any cooler needs a good source of fresh air to do it's job.
I consider two 120/140mm front intakes as usually adequate.

3. If you want a decent cooler at a good price, I suggest the scythe kotetsu mark II, about $40.
https://www.amazon.com/Scythe-Kotetsu-Gaming-Alliance-SCKTT-2000TUF/dp/B002O6C1HI
If you want the very best, look at the noctua NH-D15s, about $80

 

[DavidM012]

It's a desktop case with a funnel over the cpu heat sink from what I gather which is there to create a bit of positive pressure, and the exhaust fan wasn't working so we need to find out how much clearance there is for the cooler and find a low profile version and replace the exhaust fan and maybe add one or two more for good measure.

The op says the push pins are properly attached. That poorly documented tdp stuff is there to confuse new builders. Tbh they could say it's anything and 99% of earth would have no engineering knowledge to verify it anyway.

Keep the funnel it should work nicely with a decent cooler if you can't find any specs. for the chassis, or a model and make we can look up, just measure the clearance off the cpu to the top of the case with a ruler, with and without the funnel if you don't want it, and also the diameter of the funnel there should be a low profile heatsink that is about the same size as the alta 7, with a few sintered heat pipes in it, just have to search one out of the masses of cooler specifications.

 

[rajeshja]

I've taken some photos.

Let me know if you need more.

 

[rajeshja]

Your 9600K runs, doesn't it??
That is what is meant by ok.
There are two problems here.

1. The cooler is inadequate in the first place for a 9600K that can run at very high clocks if you let it.

2. Your installation is faulty. Even such a poor cooler should be showing 10-15c. over ambient at idle.
Some possible problems.

a) Using too much thermal paste is a mistake. The purpose of paste is to fill in microscopic air pits in the metal mating surfaces. Air is a very poor conductor of heat. Paste is better, but not nearly as good as metal to metal contact.
A small rice sized drop in the center will spread out under heat and pressure.
Clean off the old with alcohol before repasting.

b) Pushpins are tricky to mount and easy to get on unevenly. The trick is to press down on a diagonal pair simultaneously.

c) Check that all 4 pins are through the motherboard and locked. You need to look at the back side of the motherboard to verify.

d) What is your case and fan arrangement?
Any cooler needs a good source of fresh air to do it's job.
I consider two 120/140mm front intakes as usually adequate.

3. If you want a decent cooler at a good price, I suggest the scythe kotetsu mark II, about $40.
https://www.amazon.com/Scythe-Kotetsu-Gaming-Alliance-SCKTT-2000TUF/dp/B002O6C1HI
If you want the very best, look at the noctua NH-D15s, about $80

10-15 ℃ seems about right. Ambient temperature was probably around 28℃ the first day the happened. 15℃ above that would be 43 which is appx what I was seeing.

Applying a rice grain sized amount of paste which is what I did the first time, meant that only about two thirds the radius of the heat sink had the paste. I saw this when I removed the sink on seeing 50℃ idle temps. Does that mean anything? How big are your grains of rice?

I'm sure I have air bubbles though. The diagonal push pin suggestion is great. I will try that next time.

Unfortunately my case doesn't allow me to see the underside of my motherboard.

I'm in India, so a number of these coolers aren't available here. I can order them from the US, but they will take a month to arrive, and I've decided not to use the desktop until I get a good cooler. So waiting that long is something I'd rather avoid.

I'm making a list of available coolers that also fit my budget, so any help choosing from them would be great.

 

[jeremyj_83]

10-15 ℃ seems about right. Ambient temperature was probably around 28℃ the first day the happened. 15℃ above that would be 43 which is appx what I was seeing.

Applying a rice grain sized amount of paste which is what I did the first time, meant that only about two thirds the radius of the heat sink had the paste. I saw this when I removed the sink on seeing 50℃ idle temps. Does that mean anything? How big are your grains of rice?

I'm sure I have air bubbles though. The diagonal push pin suggestion is great. I will try that next time.

Unfortunately my case doesn't allow me to see the underside of my motherboard.

I'm in India, so a number of these coolers aren't available here. I can order them from the US, but they will take a month to arrive, and I've decided not to use the desktop until I get a good cooler. So waiting that long is something I'd rather avoid.

I'm making a list of available coolers that also fit my budget, so any help choosing from them would be great.

Cooler Master 212 EVO is probably the most popular budget cooler. It runs about $30 and works very well.

 

[rajeshja]

A photo of the front of my case, in case it helps. Couldn't find a model number anywhere.

 

[rajeshja]

Cooler Master 212 EVO is probably the most popular budget cooler. It runs about $30 and works very well.

I can't find an EVO but there is Cooler Master 212 LED available. Should work the same right?

Also there is the Antec C400 Elite.

I have around 170mm clearance without the funnel and only 95mm clearance with the funnel.

But I am going to need to get a new case soon anyway. My current one is around 15mm too tall for the place I want to keep it. I can get a case better suited for cooling than this one. It will be a budget case, but there are a number of options available.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Apparently the 212 EVO and LED are basically the same and have near identical performance.

 

[rajeshja]

Available coolers that seem compatible:

Deepcool GAMMAXX 400
Antec C400 Elite
Antec C400 Glacial
Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED (RR-212L-16PR-R1)
DeepCool Lucifer K2

The last one is stretching my budget, and also seems too large.

I'll be getting rid of the funnel while I am using this case, and will get the chassis fan replaced.

In leaning towards the Gammax 400 and the Cooler Master as both are featured in this this article.

Are they suitable for my needs? Which one is better?

Are the Antec ones worth considering at all?

I haven't been able to find any numbers for dissipation capacity on any of the cooler specs, so I'm going purely by reviews.

 

[jeremyj_83]

Available coolers that seem compatible:

Deepcool GAMMAXX 400
Antec C400 Elite
Antec C400 Glacial
Cooler Master Hyper 212 LED (RR-212L-16PR-R1)
DeepCool Lucifer K2

The last one is stretching my budget, and also seems too large.

I'll be getting rid of the funnel while I am using this case, and will get the chassis fan replaced.

In leaning towards the Gammax 400 and the Cooler Master as both are featured in this this article.

Are they suitable for my needs? Which one is better?

Are the Antec ones worth considering at all?

I haven't been able to find any numbers for dissipation capacity on any of the cooler specs, so I'm going purely by reviews.

The 212 is a better performer than the GAMMAX 400.

 

[geofelt]

From personal experience, I can tell you that the hyper 212 is difficult to install properly.
Looking at your list, the Antec C400 would probably be my choice.

 

[DavidM012]

It's not a desktop it's a mid-atx tower. 170mm cooler clearance, will fit anything on the market including the large noctua nh-d15 which is 165mm, the scythe fuma rev b. fits at 150mm and benches like the noctua, but you can also browse a very comprehensive list of coolers on pc partpicker that should also list vendors by region. Click on the system builder tab and you can list them all or by manufacturer, and it shows the fan noise level and you can sort them by price.

Couldn't find a match of your chassis model anywhere looks like it was retired purely because it has nowhere to fit an aio radiator. Definitely old. Doesn't matter, air cooler is perfectly ok so long as it's a decent size with heatpipes. Looks like you have 1 fan exhaust and a space for 1 front intake. Check it's measurement for the front case should be 120mm looks like it but hard to gauge from a photo.

 

[rajeshja]

From personal experience, I can tell you that the hyper 212 is difficult to install properly.
Looking at your list, the Antec C400 would probably be my choice.

Thanks. That's good to know.

 

[rajeshja]

It's not a desktop it's a mid-atx tower. 170mm cooler clearance, will fit anything on the market including the large noctua nh-d15 which is 165mm, the scythe fuma rev b. fits at 150mm and benches like the noctua, but you can also browse a very comprehensive list of coolers on pc partpicker that should also list vendors by region. Click on the system builder tab and you can list them all or by manufacturer, and it shows the fan noise level and you can sort them by price.

Couldn't find a match of your chassis model anywhere looks like it was retired purely because it has nowhere to fit an aio radiator. Definitely old. Doesn't matter, air cooler is perfectly ok so long as it's a decent size with heatpipes. Looks like you have 1 fan exhaust and a space for 1 front intake. Check it's measurement for the front case should be 120mm looks like it but hard to gauge from a photo.

Can you please point out where the from intake fan would go? Under the DVD drive?

 

[nathandave]

There are five reasons. Check out here,

• Misplaced front panel connectors
• Incorrectly seated RAM
• Missing power supply cables
• Missing motherboard standoffs
• Overheating CPU