Next gen 3d H/W approaches - where's the s/w?

g__day

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Once again the new generation of 3d cards is approaching quickly. We are months away from R420 and NV40 - which may give us dazzling performance compared to our 9800 Pros and 5950 Ultras. But does anyone feel software that will utilise their capabilities is anywhere closer to appearing during the lifetime of these next generation of video cards than it did for their predecessors?

At least now it seems the industry has adopted scalable graphics processing in the most modern of 3d game engines (e.g. Source, Krass, CryEngine etc...). Engines that fall back to simpler shaders if they assess you don't have enough CPU/GPU 3d power to run incredible shaders. I imagine these engines will make it easier for game developers to also dial up the graphics load for any new DX9 or OGL card that appears that is detected and assessed as having performance capabilities way beyond what we have today - maybe???

But does anyone else fell we are getting closer to the time when leading edge cards' capabilities can actually be satisfactorily used in their lifetime?

Or asked another way if 2004 delivers us all of NV40, NV45, R420 and R500 - a possibility - will any game engine scale to actually push them? Are game engines and shader development teams good enough to deliver surperb shaders that are held in reserve simply waiting for detection of a card fast enough to run them? Or is development of such scalable shader effects simply viewed as too much wasted effort - even if the best 3d engines could rather elegantly detect them and rather simply deliver their effects?

What are your thoughts?
 
Lemme guess you work for XGI's PR team right.

Cards are too powerful, why do you need the next generation?

Even Halo and MaxPayne2 are already stressing current top end cards at medium resolution.

Whether is take 6 mths after the cards come out to make use of PS/VS3.0 or not is irrelevant. If ATI/nV don't make better cards than their current line, then their competitors will.

Also some of us with 1920x1440 monitors would like to start turning up the resolution on current games as well.

Also without powerful VPU/GPU these new features will be useless, there are already PS/VS3.0 demos out there which we can't see because we don't have the technology on our cards, so obviously programmers aen't that far off of utilizing those features.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <b>RED GREEN</b> GA to SK :evil:

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fragglefart

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Hey grape, where can you find PS/VS3.0 demos, i have had no luck searching, just posts in various forums hypothesising about their capabilities.
Cheers in advance i hope! :)

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Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
 
I'm at work right now, but there is a demo that is out (read about it @ DH or Guru3D), right now I can't even remember the name for the life of me. I think I bookmarked it at home.
I'll do a quick check in the brief downtimes here, if I can't find it here I'll do so at home.
I'll grab it and post it when I get it. It came out just 3-4 weeks ago. Sounds interesting but saw no point in downloading it if I can't experience the effects on my R9600Pro.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <b>RED GREEN</b> GA to SK :evil:

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fragglefart

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Cheers i was heading to Guru3D now anywayz, will have another look. (Damned net connection i should be working....)

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Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
 
Ahh yes it's PowerVR (easier to find than I thought). Here's a few of the Demos:

CLOTH;
<A HREF="http://www.pvrdev.com/pub/PC/eg/h/Cloth.htm" target="_new">http://www.pvrdev.com/pub/PC/eg/h/Cloth.htm</A>

VOXEL;
<A HREF="http://www.pvrdev.com/pub/PC/eg/h/Voxel.htm" target="_new">http://www.pvrdev.com/pub/PC/eg/h/Voxel.htm</A>

There are other demos on the left of the page. Those are the PS3.0/VS 3.0 ones so far. Now yes they seem very basic, but they are out in advance of the cards. I'd prefer that it be the other way around since what's the point in having effects if your card can't see them.
At least if the Cards are one generation ahead of the curve, people who bought last year's cards aren't losing out. Of course if there WERE programs out there that had PS3.0 and VS3.0 as a primary part of it, it would drive alot of us to upgrade sooner. :evil:



- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <b>RED GREEN</b> GA to SK :evil:

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fragglefart

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Thanks again Ape, hope im not distracting you!
I heard they may work with FX, i'll give them a try if they do and offer feedback on Fps.
Bet they wont work though! :D

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Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
 
Fraggle, no while I wait for things to clear in the database I can type for 2 min. segments (which is the reason some of my posts look like they have 4+ trains of thought :eek: ). It's just harder to do any meaningful searching with that kind of constraint.

As for the FX's. Yeah supposedly they have some support for PS3.0, but it isn't activated in the drivers, I posted an article about it a while back (like 3+ months ago).

Good luck, let us know what you see. I'll go load them up when I get home and see Wazzup.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <b>RED GREEN</b> GA to SK :evil:

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fragglefart

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Ok gave them a try, and as it stands now, the FX series is uncapable of running PS3, however, as you say, that could be due to the drivers not including the function ATM.
Ah well... i figured it wouldnt work just yet.

Nv will probably run 32bit PS3 parts in 16Bit anyway hehe...

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Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
 
Nv will probably run 32bit PS3 parts in 16Bit anyway hehe...
LOL!

Check out this pretty thorough article from Beyond3D about DX9.0 vs 9,1 and PS-VS 2.0/30;
<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/nv30r300/" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/nv30r300/</A>
Very good read. My favourtie segment from the PS section;
<i><font color=green>"The strength of NV30 PS specification impresses all of us."</i></font color=green>

It'll be interesting to se whether there will be 'optimizations' for the next generation cards too.

UMmm, If there aren't any PS3.0 and VS3.0 cards out there, how do they know they'll really look like the pictures beside the demos and work with real cards? I think these are all fakes!
:eek:

Whadya mean software, this is software! :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <b>RED GREEN</b> GA to SK :evil:

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russmon

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I personally do not.

Heck, the 9700 Pro has been out for how long and it hasn't even been tapped. Also, you have company putting out games where even the best of the cards have problems due to shotty coding or driver preference issues (Halo, KOTOR, Lock-on).

I will always argue that although graphics are great, it is now the job of the gaming companies to improve gameplay rather than improving graphics. Take Warcraft III - simple, nice looking graphics that perform well with great gameplay (my opinion). When WoW comes out they are using the same basic graphic engine and focusing on gameplay! No wonder the initial reports of this game are in a word, "WOW!" The best games in history were "the best" mainly for gameplay not graphics.

So as the next gen of HW approaches, I could really care less (mainly because I just bought a 9800). I am concerned about gameplay issues and the poisoning of the PC gaming by the consoles.
 

fragglefart

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Good article! Phew.... heavy though, i completely lost focus numerous times reading through that one!!!
Time for some chocolate and a bottle of pop i think.

And now its back to my MA Digital Practises study with a broken brain due to blooming graphics cards again *crys*

:D

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Render times? You'll find me down the pub...
 
Would that make it a Hair-lined Box? :eek:

I Like Them! :evil:


Yeah I 'tink it was all dun wit' d'em LiteBrites! MMMmm 3D Piktures!

My LiteBrite's so Bright, I gotta wear Shades! :cool:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <b>RED GREEN</b> GA to SK :evil:

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