Nezumi Shortfang vs Nezumi Graverobber

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello,

What would happen if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her graveyard
to remove,
or if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her hand to discard.

Would my creatures flip?

Card Name: Nezumi Graverobber
Cost: 1B
Type: Creature - Rat Rogue
Pow/Tgh: 2/1
Rules Text: 1B: Remove target card in an opponent's graveyard from
the game. If no cards are in that graveyard, flip Nezumi
Graverobber.
-----
Nighteyes the Desecrator
Legendary Creature - Rat Wizard
4/2
4B: Put target creature card in a graveyard into play
under your control.
Set/Rarity: Champions of Kamigawa uncommon


Card Name: Nezumi Shortfang
Cost: 1B
Type: Creature - Rat Rogue
Pow/Tgh: 1/1
Rules Text: 1B, T: Target opponent discards a card. Then if that
player has no cards in hand, flip Nezumi Shortfang.
-----
Stabwhisker the Odious
Legendary Creature - Rat Shaman
3/3
At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player
loses 1 life for each card fewer than three in his
or her hand.
Set/Rarity: Champions of Kamigawa rare

Thank you
Jonathan

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jonathan Fourie (DCI - 88725184) wrote:
> Hello,
>
> What would happen if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her graveyard
> to remove,
> or if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her hand to discard.
>
> Would my creatures flip?
>
> Card Name: Nezumi Graverobber
> Cost: 1B
> Type: Creature - Rat Rogue
> Pow/Tgh: 2/1
> Rules Text: 1B: Remove target card in an opponent's graveyard from
> the game. If no cards are in that graveyard, flip Nezumi
> Graverobber.
> -----
> Nighteyes the Desecrator
> Legendary Creature - Rat Wizard
> 4/2
> 4B: Put target creature card in a graveyard into play
> under your control.
> Set/Rarity: Champions of Kamigawa uncommon

If your opponent has no card in his graveyard you cannot use your
ability (no target), therefore you cannot trigger the second part
to flip your card.



>
>
> Card Name: Nezumi Shortfang
> Cost: 1B
> Type: Creature - Rat Rogue
> Pow/Tgh: 1/1
> Rules Text: 1B, T: Target opponent discards a card. Then if that
> player has no cards in hand, flip Nezumi Shortfang.
> -----
> Stabwhisker the Odious
> Legendary Creature - Rat Shaman
> 3/3
> At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player
> loses 1 life for each card fewer than three in his
> or her hand.
> Set/Rarity: Champions of Kamigawa rare
>
> Thank you
> Jonathan
>

Here you target your opponent and not a card from his hand,
If he has a card in his hand or not doesn't matter. After
he discards or tries to, if he has no card then you flip your
card.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jonathan Fourie (DCI - 88725184) wrote:

> Hello,
>
> What would happen if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her
> graveyard to remove,
> or if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her hand to discard.
>
> Would my creatures flip?

You can't flip the Graverobber because you can't use the ability.
The ability requires a target card in an opponent's graveyard.
If there is no such card, you can't designate the required
target and thus can't play the ability. What's more, if there
*was* a card in the opponent's graveyard but it was removed
before the ability resolved, the ability gets countered for lack
of targets and the Graverobber *still* doesn't flip.

Shortfang, on the other hand, does *not* target a card in the
opponent's hand. It only targets the opponent, and does not
require the target opponent to be holding any cards. So,
yes, you can use the ability when the opponent is not holding
any cards, and Shortfang will flip when you do so.
>
> Card Name: Nezumi Graverobber
> Cost: 1B
> Type: Creature - Rat Rogue
> Pow/Tgh: 2/1
> Rules Text: 1B: Remove target card in an opponent's graveyard from
> the game. If no cards are in that graveyard, flip Nezumi
> Graverobber.
> -----
> Nighteyes the Desecrator
> Legendary Creature - Rat Wizard
> 4/2
> 4B: Put target creature card in a graveyard into play
> under your control.
> Set/Rarity: Champions of Kamigawa uncommon
>
>
> Card Name: Nezumi Shortfang
> Cost: 1B
> Type: Creature - Rat Rogue
> Pow/Tgh: 1/1
> Rules Text: 1B, T: Target opponent discards a card. Then if that
> player has no cards in hand, flip Nezumi Shortfang.
> -----
> Stabwhisker the Odious
> Legendary Creature - Rat Shaman
> 3/3
> At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player
> loses 1 life for each card fewer than three in his
> or her hand.
> Set/Rarity: Champions of Kamigawa rare
>
> Thank you
> Jonathan

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jonathan Fourie (snip DCI # -- please don't reveal this; there are unscrupulous
players out there...) sez:

<<
>Hello,
>
>What would happen if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her graveyard
>to remove,
>or if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her hand to discard.
>
>Would my creatures flip?
>>

Not automatically; their abilities have to be played. The Graverobber's
ability can't be played without a card in that opponent's graveyard (it targets
the card), but the Shortfang's can be played without a card in that opponent's
hand (it targets the opponent).


----
"I'm not a Republican, but I'm saving up to become one."
--Emo Phillips, on the Bob & Tom Show

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jonathan Fourie \(DCI - 88725184\) <jonathan@jonREMOVEathan.za.net> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>What would happen if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her graveyard
>to remove, or if an opponent did not have any cards in his/her hand to
>discard.
>
>Would my creatures flip?
>
>Nezumi Graverobber 1B Creature - Rat Rogue
>2/1 1B: Remove target card in an opponent's graveyard from the game. If no
> cards are in that graveyard, flip ~.
-----
>Nighteyes the Desecrator Legendary Creature - Rat Wizard
>4/2 4B: Put target creature card in a graveyard into play under your control.

No, because you cannot ANNOUNCE this ability without a legal target card, and
you cannot RESOLVE it if the legal target card vanishes in response. (You can't
just ignore targetting requirements and hope for the best, or anything like
that.)


Nezumi Shortfang 1B Creature - Rat Rogue
1/1 1B,Tap: Target opponent discards a card. Then if that player has no cards
in hand, flip ~.
-----
Stabwhisker the Odious Legendary Creature - Rat Shaman
3/3 At the beginning of each opponent's upkeep, that player loses 1 life for
each card fewer than three in his or her hand.

Yes, because there's a perfectly good target opponent, and if you tell him to
discard with an empty hand he Does Nothing, and the effect doesn't say "Then,
if he did and now has no cards in hand, ...".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.