Nforce 4

priyajeet

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Though this is now a mobo article, but still has graphics relations, so posting here. [H], firingsqaud, Anadtech etc. (NOT THG, these guys are bcoming loosers) have done a editorials on the Nforce 4 which somehow looks really cool with all those features inbuilt with those 3GB/sec SATA and 5x Hyper Transport, and of course the upcoming SLI technology.
<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njc3" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njc3</A>
<A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_nforce4_preview/" target="_new">http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_nforce4_preview/</A>
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2248&p=7" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2248&p=7</A>

I am pleaing to all homies in this forum to buy me one. :wink:

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/19/04 06:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

priyajeet

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BTW I add athlon Fx 55 to that plea list.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 

cleeve

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And a mail-order wife.

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coylter

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Me want now.

Click <font color=blue><A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">HERE</A></font color=blue> if you real<b>l</b>y are an <font color=red>idiot</font color=red>.
 
No Soundstorm. AC97 SUX!

No good for me, gonna get rid of the Audigy when I sell current gaming rig or turn it into a media-pc.

No actual SLI tests, interesting looking board they show, but definitely NOT graphics related until those boards appear/test.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

priyajeet

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u dont like the audigy ?

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 
I like Audigy, works for me, but all the nV fans were promising Soundstorm. Kinney was one of the biggest proponents, and really it doesn't sell a MOBO for me, but all the nV fans were pumping them up around here.

No more soundstorm onboard, well then they better start their add-in card development, if that'll ever happen. First maker to a PCIe card with quality features I want (Great quality, high SN ratio, 7.1 [prefer 7.2], DTS, DVD-AUDIO for example) wins.

But without all the bells and whistles I'd need more to decide to forgoe a few features offered by others.

Not even any onboard video solution unlike the ATI and VIA solutions. The nF4 better outperform all other comers or else it's lack of features will be glaring. Those who need built-in firewalls don't buy top-end boards. I have a hardware firewall and router plus software firewall + anti-virus, what does that feature matter to me?

Just like AC97. sux, no use.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

Johanthegnarler

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In order for me to do my next upgrade..
I want Sli, PCIx and Gig Ethernet Standard.
I want 4 Ram Slots. I want it to still keep it's AGP slot of course.
I want it to have the ability to actually upgrade the CPU. :D
SATA Raid of course. Set up too allow great cooling.
I also need it to be pretty for my window :D.

And for CPU upgrade i don't mean two PR ratings.. i mean a GHz.

And this is a MOBO question.. i haven't been reading too much lately but is AMD going the DDR2 route yet? Anything looking promising from that area?
I'd actually consider doing a DDR1 upgrade before a 2.. just becuase i wouldn't need new memory.


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46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Johanthegnarler on 10/19/04 09:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
You will not see SLI and AGP IMO.

VIA has PCIe-16x + AGP (GEAR), but I don't think you'll see 2PCIe graphics slots and an AGP on top of that, just for real estate concerns.

DDR2 for AMD64 for desktops isn't until next year, server support on the 940 is suposed to be out there. AMD seems to be sitting on the sidelines. There's alot of speculation of what will be done to support it for AMD, the two main solutions right now are either changing pin count (again!) or creating a bridge, which would defeat alot of the integrated memory controller advanatages IMO.

The thing is that supposedly the AMD64s are VERY latency sensitive, whereas the Intels are speed sensitive, and thus having high speed high latency memory for the AMD64s may not be better than GOOD DDR1, and the situation would only get worse if you had a bridge solution IMO. But then again we haven't seen anything 'official' yet.

And to keep this graphics related, what you don't want integrated graphics to help trouble-shoot buggy SLI/XGI/HyperMEMORY drivers? :lol:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

priyajeet

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funny, i never paid attention to soundstorm. Reading abt it now, its kinda a big deal - making sound for movies and stuff. Will be cool to have pro snd in a system, though it will have tremendous competion with creative considering creative has started getting all those certifications - THX etc. Luv to have these tech sounds - whats next ? maybe skywalker sound.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/19/04 10:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

eden

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The P4 used to be quite latency and memory bandwidth sensitive. The speed increase has been stagnant though, so the performance overall doesn't really get much better nowadays through increasing it.

The Athlon 64 has also become latency sensitive, though notice the change from 800MT to 1000MT HT wasn't THAT significant, despite a 25% increase in bandwidth.
And forget cache, doubling it, in most cases, revealed not more than 5 to a maximum of 10% increase.

I honestly don't know anymore what benefits these processors more. The P4 used to be known for getting more mileage with bandwidth increases, but it seems it's not THAT significant after all. No does the cache help that much, except the L3 one for the EE. No, what it needs is internal improvements, big time. And the A64 needs a longer pipeline for higher speeds. 2.6GHZ is nice, and so far the scaling has been very consistent. What it does need is even more speed, because of that consistency present.

The worst thing about DDR2 and what makes it pointless for now IMO, is the latency. Notice the recent P4 tests. DDR2 actually makes higher clocked P4s perform like lower clocked DDR versions with less bandwidth! Geez, I don't even know WHY they tout and try to sell that memory technology yet. :eek:

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eden

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Hmm, very slight performance increase with a minor decrease in a few games.
I dunno if the package is overall THAT worth it, it will depend on the Ultra's price.
Right now though, some VIA boards come with serious features for barely 140$ CDN. That's too good to pass up.

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Spitfire_x86

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In case of nForce vs. VIA, if performance and price is equal or nForce is slightly more expensive, then I would still recommend nVidia over VIA because of better drivers. VIA drivers are pathetic compared to nForce driver package.

There is cheaper nForce3 250 boards, too (Chaintech VNF3-250 for example).

I don't know why nVidia didn't integrate SoundStorm with nForce4. Now there's no reason to get nForce4 over nForce3 250, unless you need PCI-Ex.

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Spitfire_x86

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[H], firingsqaud, Anadtech etc. (NOT THG, these guys are bcoming loosers) have done a editorials on the Nforce 4
I told the same thing right after Omid's "Game Over" article. Lot of people supported Omid's stance, but now it seems that they like to read "preview" type articles just like me.


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c0d1f1ed

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No Soundstorm. AC97 SUX!
I don't see the problem... I got two tiny speakers on my desk and I'm really happy with the sound they produce. If a motherboard has -any- sound support, great! You're buying a motherboard, not a sound card. Seriously, how many people -need- the latest audio features? I'd rather pay 20$ less because they left out SoundStorm, and let the sound professionals buy a professional sound card.

Just my view...
 

wolverinero79

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Didn't this review site just go on a big rant saying they won't put up with Nvidia's paper launches that leaves reviewers tiny amounts of time to test? Didn't they say in the N4 review that they had little time to test this and they are unsure of how fast it will come to market?

I'm thinking THG might be part of the Kerry campaign...

I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
 

priyajeet

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y u ask ?
nope, WI MAdison

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 

Spitfire_x86

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Quoted from THG's NF4 review:

<i>"The rush that accompanied the chipset launch is symptomatic of the entire industry these days: everybody is acrimoniously fighting to push new products to the market, whether they can be delivered or not. One of the few positive exceptions is AMD, but most others do not leave the best impression on customers -including NVIDIA."</i>

No comments. Seems that this is THG's very first chipset review.


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priyajeet

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look at <A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_image.asp?fs_article_id=1565&pic_id=03" target="_new">this</A> bitch.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 

priyajeet

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firingsquad -

"Apparently motherboard manufacturers either had a hard time educating users on the benefits of SoundStorm, or their users just weren’t interested in the features SoundStorm provides, one of which was real-time Dolby Digital encoding, a feature no other consumer-level audio product provides."

And <A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_nforce4_preview/page5.asp" target="_new">here</A> are their SLI benchies. Notice Nforce 4 just supports 20 lanes of PCIe, while Intel will go all the way upto 32, i think.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/20/04 11:51 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
The less cards in my system, the greater the airflow and the more options for MOBO size. Also each PCI card draws power and is less effificient than an 'equivalent' onboard solution. The performance impact of the old Soundstorm was not too bad (very close to Audigy, even ahead in about 10% of benchies), and was supposed to be improved.
The hoopla over the 'new' Soundstorm was impressive, however if it's not coming, well Intel new audio solution is nice, but somewhat restricted to Intel boards, and so we're left with PCI/PCIe solutions. I'm not about to buy another PCI solution, and really I was hoping to be able to sell my Audigy as part of my current rig. At least my current board has cheesy 5.1 onboard already so if I sell it/ give it away, then I can promotoe that. But if I make it a media PC, then I need something worthy to replace it.

As for it being the 'LATEST' audio features, well it's not, but considering the new Intel solution, then it's the LEAST they could do IMO.

If it was audio professionals then they would buy cards from RME or the like. Gamers still need good audio solutions that are better than AC97. I use headphones and the crap sound quality is the reason I spent more for an add-in card. I was just hoping I could have more airflow and make more room for more USB/FireWire PCI plates (Since I will have 3 USB2.0 plates [with 2-4 sockets each] and a firewire plate and firewire card) which block PCI slots already. Most of these new boards come with just 2 or 3 PCI slots, so space is at a premium.

Why go add-in if there is quality onboard features, do you complain about onboard ethernet? I have dozens of PCI ethernet cards at home (and hundreds at work), yet, I prefer onboard everytime, even if some of the onboard solutions aren't 'true' Gigabit, etc.

Anyways, that's just my personal style with things like this, good airflow, low power draw, good quality, basically an elegant solution. While I agree no one should be forced to pay for it, but why not do what they do with onboard video, and make it the NF4 PRO ULTRA SLI RED HOT MAGMA Edition, where I pay $27 more to cover your not paying $20 extra?

It'll cost me alot more for an add-in solution of any quality. Only PCIe with the features I mentioned above would be a better alternative to me right now.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 
And here are their SLI benchies.
Those aren't benchmarks, that's nV PR. I mean actual in someone's hands, no partial precision, no 'special drivers' benchmarks. Would anyone trust ATI's Supa-Doopa R480 results if they said it gets 10,000 in 3Dmk05? Of course not, so why is SLI any different, probably because we've seen working mock-ups, but no real benchmarks, and therefore people will believe anything.

Notice Nforce 4 just supports 20 lanes of PCIe, while Intel will go all the way upto 32, i think.
Yeah [H] mention that with one card the single slot will be at 16X and with two BOTH will be at 8X, while Intels solution on the Tumwater has one running at 16X and the other at 8X. This may only impact Workstation solutions, but it would be interesting to look at from a Quadro SLI + ProApp stand point. I think for most of us here it will have little impact at all.

I have read that it was the licensing fee from Dolby that wasn't worth the money. And while it's only a small impact, it's one of those "don't tell me to wait for feature X when you don't even offer it after all the hoopla!" situatuions.

As for the rest,t he performance figures as noted by [H] are not impressive, and as such the things that would interest me in the NF4 over VIA, SIS and ATI's solutions are slowly being dropped one by one. The Raid support is interesting, but we'll have to see it's impact too before deciding.

SLI is not unique to the NF4 so right now there's nothing that makes it stand out against all others, so it'll probably come down to price/performance, or in the Case of VIA and ATI's onboard video and enhanced audio, those features sets are far more interesting than built in firewall that consumes CPU cycles (even if it is less than the NF3 version).

Right now VIA's my top contender, despite Spitfire and Crashman's obvious misgivings (which I respect, but does not reflect my experiences with VIA). Gigabyte and VIA are my current solution, work well, and if they are the same, unlike Spitfire, I'd pick VIA over nV.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 
Looks like I'm not the only one;

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19177" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19177</A>


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

priyajeet

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funny, NVidiots luv soundstorm, and look at the quote from firingsuad abt nobody caring !

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 
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