Question No boot when going from 32GB to 64GB RAM ?

Beitzel15

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Oct 14, 2008
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I have a msi mag b650, 7800x3d and running 32gb of T Force ddr5 6000 fine.

Add 2 more sticks, and nothing... reset the cmos and can get it to boot, but ram only runs at 3200, when I set it manually to 6000 or just enable XMP, it will not boot.

What gives? I can remove the 2 new sticks of ram, and it boots up fine with 32gb at 6000
 

USAFRet

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I have a msi mag b650, 7800x3d and running 32gb of T Force ddr5 6000 fine.

Add 2 more sticks, and nothing... reset the cmos and can get it to boot, but ram only runs at 3200, when I set it manually to 6000 or just enable XMP, it will not boot.

What gives? I can remove the 2 new sticks of ram, and it boots up fine with 32gb at 6000
And this is why we always say...mixing RAM is a crapshoot.

Often, it does not work. Even when adding 2 more of the supposed exact same.
 

Beitzel15

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And this is why we always say...mixing RAM is a crapshoot.

Often, it does not work. Even when adding 2 more of the supposed exact same.
Well, it is the same ram.. but I guess if I’d have done this when I built it, I’d probably be good to go. Guess I’ll send it back and just run 32gb.
 

USAFRet

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Well, it is the same ram.. but I guess if I’d have done this when I built it, I’d probably be good to go. Guess I’ll send it back and just run 32gb.
I recently tried to add 2x 32GB to an existing 2x 16GB, for a hopeful 96GB total.
Same Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4, just the different size.

It booted up just fine. After a couple of mins, ethernet goes out.
Each pair works fine on its own, but any combination of the 4...same fail.

So currently at the new 64GB.
 

Misgar

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When upgrading from two DIMMs to four DIMMs, the memory overclock frequently suffers. It's one of the reasons why motherboards used for LN2 (liquid Nitrogen) overclocking contests often have only two DIMM sockets. Four DIMMs just slow you down, due to extra capacitance on the data bus.

With two sticks of DDR5 you achieved 6,000MHz. With four sticks you might reach 4,200MHz or 4,800MHz by selecting the appropriate EXPO/XMP settings in DOCP. Check the motherboard's user manual and see if it contains guidance about frequency settings for 2 vs 4 DIMMs.

As other people have said, your second kit of DIMMs might not have the same timings as the first kit, despite showing the "same" part number. I've seen subtly different timings on three "identical" 8GB DDR3 DIMMs. They obviously came from different batches, contained memory chips from different manufacturers and had different timings in the SPD chips. Despite these differences, a mixed collection of three different DDR3 DIMM types worked fine in a test system with all four DIMM slots occupied.

If you must fill all four DIMM slots, it's better to buy a kit of four matched DIMMs at the outset, but two higher capacity DIMMs are better, because they allow faster XMP/EXPO overclocking. So saying, I've upgraded a number of systems from two to four DIMMs, but you have to be prepared for disappointment.

Although modern AM4/AM5 systems benefit from overclocked RAM in some apps, you might not see much benefit in other programs. In my 7950X video editing rig built last year I saved money with a 2x32GB 4800MHz DDR5 kit instead of faster 6.000MHz+ memory. Long term stability is more important to me than outright speed.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Does-RAM-speed-affect-video-editing-performance-1528/
 
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Deleted member 2947362

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I have never really had any issues with mixing kits of the same brand even when they have had different IC's for example, Micron IC's on 1 kit and Hynix IC's on the other but are still the same brand 2xsticks Kits.

Unless I was trying to run the 2 kits (X4 DIMMs) at their rated XMP speed
sometimes I'd get lucky and they would work other times I had to lower the RAM speeds.

But

I have always got them to work when down clocking to the CPU's Supported Memory Controller DIMM config's and supported RAM speeds.

In fact, I'm running and testing in my system Right Now 2x16gig R2 Samsung IC's DDR3200 Corsair LPX in one channel
And
2x4gig R1 Hynix IC's DDR2400 Team Group elite in the other channel

So far they work fine no issues at

DDR2133 1.2v - voltage 1.24
DDR2400 1.2v - voltage 1.2.4
DDR 2666 1.2v - voltage 1.24
DDR2933 1.35v - voltage 1.365
DDR3000 1.35v - voltage 1.368
DDR3200 1.35v - voltage 1.368

Of cause XMP is not an option due to using the none XMP kit (TeamGroup Elite)

I'll Just add PBO was and still is disabled on all my testing.

And ATM I have AMD Boost Disabled so my CPU wont Boost

Why you might ask?

Because I want to see if it makes any real time difference that I can feel.

I have been using my PC for a bit of gaming, internet, playing around on my Oxygen Pro Mini with Hype 3 and also Ableton.

And for what I use my PC for I don't notice much if any difference what so ever.

Some of this info might be handy if you live in a hot country and have issues with heat and CPU/Ram, this will 100% help albeit at the cost of some CPU/RAM performance but it's not like system killing performance loss for the Home User.

I don't think I have ever got the CPU to go hotter than 52C in it's current config no matter what benchmark or test I throw at it lol
 
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First of all, is there a need for 64gb?
Running 32gb, look at task manager/performance monitor.
Select memory tab and look at the hard page fault column.
If it is zero, you had no hard page faults and your 32gb was fine.

If you want 64gb, sell your 32gb kit and buy a 2 stick 64gb matched kit that is on the motherboard supported ram qvl list.
Ram must be matched to operate at advertised speeds. The same part number or even batch can have differences.
If you want to try to get your 64gb to work, go into the bios and manually set the specs as well as a higher than stock ram voltage.
If it seems to work,
Run memtest86 or memtest86+
They boot from a usb stick and do not use windows.
You can download them here:
If you can run a full pass with NO errors, your ram should be ok.

Running several more passes will sometimes uncover an issue, but it takes more time.
Probably not worth it unless you really suspect a ram issue.
 

DSzymborski

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Moderator
Well, it is the same ram.. but I guess if I’d have done this when I built it, I’d probably be good to go. Guess I’ll send it back and just run 32gb.

There's no such thing as "the same RAM" in this context. No two sticks are the same. RAM is not made differently for different brands and models, it's a binned product. This means that RAM is basically *assigned* its model by how defective it is in testing. RAM that's sold together isn't identical, it's just RAM that is clocked the same and is tested to work together. One package of Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz RAM is not identical to another package of Corsair Vengeance 3600 MHz RAM made the same hour on the same day and sent together in the same shipping container from the factory.
 

Misgar

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For that matter, individual memory chips mounted on a DIMM's PCB won't be the exactly the same either. Depending on binning tolerance they should be fairly close though.

Unless you run your own memory production line and discard quantities of memory chips during binning, you'll never get a really closely matched set of memory chips on an individual DIMM.

What matters is if the system is stable with pairs of "compromised" (slightly mismatched) DIMMs. For many people, close enough is good enough, unless it all goes pear-shaped.

So saying, I admire Plumet for experimenting with completely dissimilar sets of DIMMs. I've not had many problems with mismatched sets of DDR3 and a DDR4 upgrade from two to four DIMMs passed several runs Memtest 86+. I've yet to try an upgrade to four DIMMs with DDR5, which I've heard can be more problematic.

Not everyone can afford to sell off their old kit when increasing RAM capacity. If you're strapped for cash, it may be worth taking a chance if you can RMA the new kit, if it turns out to be unstable in conjunction with the old kit. The choice is yours.
 
Apr 14, 2023
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Get one single rank kit and put it in the dual channel. XMP should be set from here. Then second kit will just be seen as single rank too and not block your memory controller.

<mod edit nonsense removed>
 
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Math Geek

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looking at the spec sheet for the mobo


it says 4 sticks of dual rank (which your ram is) can run at 5400. any more than that is a crap shoot and of course 5400 is also gonna be a crap shoot.

you're best shot is to slowly up the speed until it stops working and then back up one step if it is stable. you got lucky that it even runs with all 4 sticks even at slower speed. work with that and see how high you can push it, running ram test each time to ensure it is stable and not just boots.
 
Apr 14, 2023
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Stick to the facts cut out the nonsense off topic anecdotes
looking at the spec sheet for the mobo


it says 4 sticks of dual rank (which your ram is) can run at 5400. any more than that is a crap shoot and of course 5400 is also gonna be a crap shoot.

you're best shot is to slowly up the speed until it stops working and then back up one step if it is stable. you got lucky that it even runs with all 4 sticks even at slower speed. work with that and see how high you can push it, running ram test each time to ensure it is stable and not just boots.

What's a motherboard have to do with it?

<mod edit nonsense removed>
 
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Beitzel15

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What's a motherboard have to do with it?

<mod edit nonsense removed>
MSI MAG b650

I ordered a new set, 2 sticks of 32gb... put it in, boots fine but at 4800, if I turn on XMP, and set it to 6000 like its supposed to, it wont post.

My other ram is 2 sticks of 16gb, same brand, same speed... boots up and rums with xmp fine.

What do I need to do to get this 64gb set to run at 6000?
 
D

Deleted member 2947362

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MSI MAG b650

I ordered a new set, 2 sticks of 32gb... put it in, boots fine but at 4800, if I turn on XMP, and set it to 6000 like its supposed to, it wont post.

My other ram is 2 sticks of 16gb, same brand, same speed... boots up and rums with xmp fine.

What do I need to do to get this 64gb set to run at 6000?
The ram will/should run at 6000mhz but it's not a given that the memory controller will like it

Maybe it's the density of the ram try giving them 1.38v -1.4 see if that helps then start to back off the voltage?
 

Beitzel15

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The ram will/should run at 6000mhz but it's not a given that the memory controller will like it

Maybe it's the density of the ram try giving them 1.38v -1.4 see if that helps then start to back off the voltage?
I’m not sure how to manually set the voltage on this motherboard. I went through it and nothing will open that let’s me change the voltage.
 

Anon#1234

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May 30, 2023
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I have a msi mag b650, 7800x3d and running 32gb of T Force ddr5 6000 fine.

Add 2 more sticks, and nothing... reset the cmos and can get it to boot, but ram only runs at 3200, when I set it manually to 6000 or just enable XMP, it will not boot.

What gives? I can remove the 2 new sticks of ram, and it boots up fine with 32gb at 6000
Are the ram sticks the same in terms of brand, speed ect?
 
D

Deleted member 2947362

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Are the ram sticks the same in terms of brand, speed ect?
with my motherboard Bios I highlight voltage by using mouse or arrow keys and just type in say 1.380 when I want auto I to just have type auto
 

Misgar

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I would not expect a motherboard to boot up at XMP 6,000MHz with four DIMMs, even if all four DIMMs were part of a single kit. Extra loading on the memory bus with four DIMMs instead of two, usually results in a drop in speed. Some motherboard manuals explicitly state you should expect a drop in speed with four DIMMs.

What applications are you running that require 6,000MHz RAM? In some instances you may see an improvement of up to, say,10%, in other cases the program may only speed up by 1 or 2%. By far the greatest benefit with some programs is having more RAM, regardless of speed.

Try running benchmarks in a few of your favourite programs at 6,000MHz XMP (two DIMMs) and 3,200MHz (four DIMMs). If the speed improvement at 6,000MHz is less than 5% can you honestly say you can detect the difference?

It's nice to boast about having really fast RAM, e.g. 7,000MHz and above, but in the real world it may not make any significant difference. Fast RAM speeds up the graphics section of an APU, but many people have a separate GPU card, negating that particular benefit.
 
D

Deleted member 2947362

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I would not expect a motherboard to boot up at XMP 6,000MHz with four DIMMs, even if all four DIMMs were part of a single kit. Extra loading on the memory bus with four DIMMs instead of two, usually results in a drop in speed. Some motherboard manuals explicitly state you should expect a drop in speed with four DIMMs.

What applications are you running that require 6,000MHz RAM? In some instances you may see an improvement of up to, say,10%, in other cases the program may only speed up by 1 or 2%. By far the greatest benefit with some programs is having more RAM, regardless of speed.

Try running benchmarks in a few of your favourite programs at 6,000MHz XMP (two DIMMs) and 3,200MHz (four DIMMs). If the speed improvement at 6,000MHz is less than 5% can you honestly say you can detect the difference?

It's nice to boast about having really fast RAM, e.g. 7,000MHz and above, but in the real world it may not make any significant difference. Fast RAM speeds up the graphics section of an APU, but many people have a separate GPU card, negating that particular benefit.
I often say the same thing and try to explain about the CPU memory controller is being overclocked and might not be happy,

I also have said the same thing and 100% agree :

This is the difference I experienced when going from DDR4 2400 to DDR4 3200
It has an impressive benchmark Bar on the Bar chart of the benchmark software along with an impressive amount of many many more numbers after the said Bar on the Bar chart.

In real world use though I noticed 0 yep a big fat 0 difference.

But I already new that I wouldn't notice/feel any difference I just wanted more RAM and have kept 2x4gig 2400 sticks and installed 2x16gig 3200 sticks giving me 40gig running at 2400 1.24v

I guess unless all you use your PC for is some type of Ram speed sensitive software it probs beneficial to have more bandwidth

But for the average PC user or even gamer come to think of it unless your using an APU your not really going to notice or feel any difference at all.
 
Apr 14, 2023
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MSI MAG b650

I ordered a new set, 2 sticks of 32gb... put it in, boots fine but at 4800, if I turn on XMP, and set it to 6000 like its supposed to, it wont post.

My other ram is 2 sticks of 16gb, same brand, same speed... boots up and rums with xmp fine.

What do I need to do to get this 64gb set to run at 6000?
MSI MAG b650

I ordered a new set, 2 sticks of 32gb... put it in, boots fine but at 4800, if I turn on XMP, and set it to 6000 like its supposed to, it wont post.

My other ram is 2 sticks of 16gb, same brand, same speed... boots up and rums with xmp fine.

What do I need to do to get this 64gb set to run at 6000?

Try forcing some settings:

Fast boot: disabled
Command rate: 2T

If still nothing, add 4 to tRAS and 8 to tRC.