[SOLVED] No panel or side-fans?

[DynV]

If taking out a tower panel is no problem (no child to stick finger in), is it better that, or have side-fans to a panel and put it on?
^ Rephrased at the end of post #3; cornerstone of the thread.

My uITX, 2-slot 232 mm GPU & full-sized PSU system is currently in a mid-size tower. Next week I'll be taking the bus (not coach), but there's an overhead compartment. It's been mentioned to me a mini-DTX system would not be so good for cooling. I then thought I have an--old--small tower then mentioned it, it was mentioned with side-fans it would be decent, and I mentioned I could fashioned some (drill & jigsaw). Here's what I was considering at 1st and now this & that. If having side-fans is better, how many should I put in, and in what configuration? Perhaps 2 horizontal for GPU and 1 for CPU?

Thank you kindly

 

[k1114]

Taking off the side panel is only better if the case has bad airflow which is typically only an issue with oem cases with a single fan. Unless you have a fan to blow into the case with the side panel off, it would only make things worse when the case fans can no longer create airflow through the case and instead do almost nothing.

But what you said doesn't make sense with the case you linked to. The gpu intakes air straight from outside the case and there would be no point in mounting fans on the side of it when the gpu fans already give it air. Plus you'd have to mount them on the outside. The front fan provides plenty of air and with a tower cooler, rear fans would do very little. Without a tower cooler, rear fans would help but I still don't see the point in going through the trouble for side fans.

Just because a case is smaller does not mean it's worse cooling. Since the gpu gets its own fresh air, it's better in most cases. As for the cpu, the design leaves enough airflow to be just as good as any decent mid tower, if not better as it's not being heated by storage and the front fan is right next to the mobo.

 

[DynV]

I thought the mini-DTX in

Here's what I was considering at 1st

was not a tower and the 1st line of the OP reflected this is about a tower. Just to be clear, this is not about a mini-DTX case, but a ~25 years old very basic small tower.

By

an--old--small tower

I did mean

oem cases with a single fan

but without any fan.

The gpu intakes air straight from outside the case

which I'm assuming is about the mini-DTX case.
I'm confused, in my previous exchange about this (before the thread was created), I did share my idea of drilling holes in the bottom of my plain small tower, which would be an almost-direct intake with only 1-2" between the GPU and the newly fashioned grill, and I was told it wouldn't help. For archival: in case the link for the mini-DTX case goes down, I mirrored the exploded images here.

Let me rephrase the initial paragraph, which I still don't know the answer:
If taking out a tower panel on a case with only side-fans is no problem (no child to stick finger in), is it better that, or have the panel on? If it's better to have the panel on, I'm thinking of purchasing 3 fans and fitting it on a ~25 years old very basic small tower, and I have tools with which I could fashion fan mountings, which fan placements would be best? The fan setup in question is this & that, once again only if it's better to have the panel on, for around the same budget, which for archival is 32.68 CAD S&H included (I'd add something cheap to get amazon free shipping), would there be something better? Optionally, if the panel on is better and the right fan placement has been made, would the tower be better or this mini-DTX case (not tower AFAIK), or similarly priced (for archival 84.98 CAD, S&H included) mini-DTX case?

 

[k1114]

I'd recommend having the side panel on and using a single 200mm fan on the side panel. Bigger fans are better than multiple smaller fans and 200mm will be plenty of airflow for a small case although I don't know how small the case is. Some exhaust holes would help too. The cooling will be better than the cube case since the fan would be blowing directly on the components.

 

[DynV]

how small the case is

I won't have access to a proper measuring tool for hours but I took a paper sheet and did a rough estimation for the whole thing, including the panels, the front plastic cover, and the bottom pads or whatever they're called (I'm ESL): 7.5 x 16 x 13".
Update 1: It's slightly > 7" x slightly > 16" x slightly < 13".

Some exhaust holes would help too.

Where should I put them? How much advantage, if any, would be to have smaller fans suck the air out, in addition to the large fan blowing the air in, compared to just holes/grills?

Optionally after the remainder of the post is addressed: Does this seem like a good purchase? It would be free S&H as I'd add items to get the threshold. If you have a suggestion, unless it's a tornado fan, noise shouldn't be an issue as the GPU is already noticeable.
Update 1: I ordered the above Phanteks 850RPM Case Fan Blades 20030mm Fan Retail Cooling PH-F200SP_BK Black and something similar in post #3 uphere 3-Pack Long Life Computer Case Fan 120mm Cooling Case Fan for Computer Cases Cooling SR12-BW3-3.

Update 2:

I think I got a not-too-bad idea of how to configure the fans. I'd have the large one in the front blowing in, and since it will be larger than the case, I'd make a vertical slit on each side-panel to accommodate the ~1/2" that would need to be out of the case. I'd then have a medium one on top sucking out. I'm not sure if or where I'd place the remaining 2 medium ones since there's not that much space on the case. Hmm! There's 2 x 5.25" bays, perhaps I could put 1 to suck out, assisting in making an upward airflow; and I'd put some seperator so the large fan inlet doesn't get air from the bays outlet. Might as well put a 2nd top one, and fashion a partition to make an angle in the 5.25" bays area, from top-exterior to the bottom-interior.

I'm not sure of any of this, but the large one at the front seem nice to me.

 

[k1114]

You don't want the fan sticking out larger than the case. That's just a waste. Get a smaller fan if you are going to do a front to back airflow. The large fan was to be used as a side fan parallel to the mobo. Any other fans would be an outward flow so location wouldn't matter much. Depending if the gpu exhausts air in the case then it could use one exhaust fan in that direction but that's assuming it's a powerful gpu. With lower end components, a lot of this is would make very little difference. At some point adding more fans just makes more noise and adds negligible cooling when there is enough airflow vs heat created.

 

[Karadjgne]

This is my case. (yes, it's tiny), it's also mITX and under 12liters volume airspace. Not a single case fan. The only fans are the fans on the radiators that do double duty as cooling for cpu/gpu and case.

An average sized ATX mid tower is @ 45liters. An average Full E-ATX tower is closer to 88liters. This is important because of the sheer volume of air inside cases. In my >12liter case, a normal 120mm 50cfm fan has no problems exchanging that volume. That same fan in a 88litre full tower is throwing a hotdog down a hallway. Useless.

MATX cases are somewhere in the mid 30-40liter range. 2x 120mm is recommended, so somewhere around 100cfm of air exchange is a good idea. Personally, if I were to stick a 200mm in an mATX case, side mount, I'd do so as Exhaust, and that'd be the only fan. Otherwise 120mm intake, 120mm rear exhaust (or 80/92mm depending on case requirements) is about all that's necessary. You don't have the volume of internal air to require more.

A 35liter case is 1.23cubic feet. At 50 cubic feet per minute, (cfm) that's 0.8 cubic feet per second. So in less than 3 seconds an intake/exhaust fan setup can replace all the air in your case with fresh from outside. As can a single 200mm. Unless you start putting fans in counterproductive arrangements.

 

[Jason H.]

This is my case. (yes, it's tiny), it's also mITX and under 12liters volume airspace. Not a single case fan. The only fans are the fans on the radiators that do double duty as cooling for cpu/gpu and case.

An average sized ATX mid tower is @ 45liters. An average Full E-ATX tower is closer to 88liters. This is important because of the sheer volume of air inside cases. In my >12liter case, a normal 120mm 50cfm fan has no problems exchanging that volume. That same fan in a 88litre full tower is throwing a hotdog down a hallway. Useless.

MATX cases are somewhere in the mid 30-40liter range. 2x 120mm is recommended, so somewhere around 100cfm of air exchange is a good idea. Personally, if I were to stick a 200mm in an mATX case, side mount, I'd do so as Exhaust, and that'd be the only fan. Otherwise 120mm intake, 120mm rear exhaust (or 80/92mm depending on case requirements) is about all that's necessary. You don't have the volume of internal air to require more.

A 35liter case is 1.23cubic feet. At 50 cubic feet per minute, (cfm) that's 0.8 cubic feet per second. So in less than 3 seconds an intake/exhaust fan setup can replace all the air in your case with fresh from outside. As can a single 200mm. Unless you start putting fans in counterproductive arrangements.

I loved this answer. And the photo of the case. Wow, tiny.

 

[DynV]

You don't want the fan sticking out larger than the case. That's just a waste.

It's been calculated that a whopping 4.36% is blocked that way (thanks to ##math on Freenode), also I'm convinced it wouldn't be entirely blocked (which would only be the case it it was at the very front of the frame, which would effect structural integrity by removing the "L" shape), so the 4.36% would only be partially blocked since it could intake air from the top & bottom like the arrows on

, loosing what, 30-50% efficiency, so a total of what 1.31 - 2.18% ? Also I really don't mind what I do to that case, I paid a whole 0.00$ for it. I could take a rubber hammer and shape a circle at the front-bottom of the case then bend the panels to fit it.

The large fan was to be used as a side fan parallel to the mobo.

I understood but thought it would be more efficient from the front, and I figured there would be little blocked by what's sticking out the side-panels (me on Freenode ##math "I'm figuring 5-10%, on the lower end of that.").

Depending if the gpu exhausts air in the case

It does.

it's a powerful gpu.

It's Radeon RX 590 GAMING 8G (rev. 1.0). I'm not sure if that's considered powerful but it's currently in a mid-tower with the facing side-panel removed, side facing the wall, if it's <= 4" from the wall, it's hot when I stick my hand down the wall.

 

[DynV]

Personally, if I were to stick a 200mm in an mATX case, side mount, I'd do so as Exhaust, and that'd be the only fan. Otherwise 120mm intake, 120mm rear exhaust (or 80/92mm depending on case requirements) is about all that's necessary. You don't have the volume of internal air to require more.

I'm more worried about the GPU so I'd place the 200mm as low as possible. To assist the CPU cooler, perhaps add a downward 120mm on top aligned with the CPU? Or fashion something in the 5.25" bays for a 120mm toward the back? Unless the top one is significantly better, I think I'd go with the bays one since I'm worried I'd place a drink on it and it would spill (not in the short run, but eventually the top fan worry would wane off) ; otherwise I'd fashion some kind of removable guard (for transporting it), an excuse to learn how to weld perhaps.

 

[Karadjgne]

Gpus get air from below, then exhaust out the side closest to the panel, that heat travels upwards towards the ceiling of the case. For a side exhaust, you'd want the fan above the gpu, not below it. For side intake, you'd want the fan below.

Exhaust is the stronger, more effective and efficient force of the 2 setups generally. With intakes, you shouldn't run them at high speeds. That forces air straight in, hitting the back and bouncing in every direction. This creates Hotspots by the drives/optical area.
Exhaust is non-linear. There's no lines of force. The air created by the fan is lower pressure than the case, so All the air travels to fill the void. Nature abhors a vacuum. And takes case heat with it.

A negative pressure setup has far better overall airflow than a positive pressure setup. You may not always see that in specific temps which get read from specific components. Picture this, hold an ice cube and go stand outside in the middle of summer. You cook, even overheat, your hand is nice and cold holding something that's 0°C. Go inside where the air conditioning is on and set for 20°C. Your hand isn't as cold, but everything else is. Think of the ice cube as the gpu.

 

[DynV]

🆒 I guess in addition to putting the exhaust 200mm high toward the back, I'll put an exhaust 120mm ceiling fan right above the CPU, unless a better setup it's indicated to me. I'm wondering if drilling some hole on the floor of the case right below the GPU would have non-negligible use.