No POST or beep. Fans spin up. Nothing more happens. Dead PSU, Motherboard or CPU?

[MakeSense]

A month ago I updated my BIOS and the computer ran fine for about 2 restarts, then on the third I tried entering some menus, everything went black and that's where I'm at now.

The computer starts. Fans spin up, hard disks spin up, but it does not POST. It does not beep. No video shows. There is no interaction what so ever.

The only way I can get any feedback from the motherboard is to remove all the RAM sticks, then it will beep. Otherwise, nothing.

I have been in contact with ASRock support, they sent me a new BIOS chip to try after a while, because I immediately assumed the motherboard gave up on me. It did not help the least.

After having tried everything I can with the motherboard except for replacement, after having tried running with only RAM, CPU and GPU (Mobo has no video output), or only RAM and CPU, it gives me nothing. In case and out of case having the motherboard on a dry towel I'm not sure weather it is the motherboard any more.

The motherboard is about 1 year old, the PSU and CPU is 3 in August.

So I'm wondering, what can the source of my problem be and what is the best way to check each component? I have no access to spare components, unfortunately.

Motherboard: ASrock 970 Extreme3
PSU: Fractal Design Tesla 650W
CPU: AMD Phenom II 965 BE

Everything spins up, nothing more happen. No beep, no video, no nothing. I don't know what to do.

 

[knightdog56]

May be a dead power supply, if you can borrow a known good power supply, use that to test with, if no joy reseat processor. If no post then replace motherboard with ASUS or Gigabyte motherboard.

 

[ko888]

When you removed the DIMMs you said it will beep. How many beeps do you hear? Was it three long beeps?

The ASrock 970 Extreme3 has a reputation for being flaky.

 

[TenPc]

It seems that the bios update may have been the wrong one.
The only thing left is to discover why things went awry, however, we may never be able to fix your PC.

Why did you feel the need to update ther bios?

The only "fix" that I can actually think of would that the video out option would have defaulted to onboard video out.
If you have any external devices attached to usb ports (like phone, external hdd, memory sticks etc0, remove them, apart from the mouse and keyboard. Remove the video card and use the onboard video out port.

What is your video card make and model?

 

[MakeSense]

When you removed the DIMMs you said it will beep. How many beeps do you hear? Was it three long beeps?

The ASrock 970 Extreme3 has a reputation for being flaky.

Exactly, three long beeps. That's the only interaction I can get with the mobo.

At least I can now rule the PSU out. Went over it with a mutlimeter to control each pin.
Everything is correct there.

Should I put the mobo back as the main suspect?

It seems that the bios update may have been the wrong one.

Why did you feel the need to update ther bios?

.............

What is your video card make and model?

Video card is EVGA GTX670 2GB, with reference cooler.

I don't know why I felt like updating the BIOS, once a year or so I go online to check if there's an update available, and usually I do the update then. In hindsight that was a very stupid idea and I'm likely not to do it again if everyhting is working as supposed.

I'm also wondering if the problem would be fixed if I asked ASRock for a bios chip with a previous BIOS version on, in case it's their latest version which is the problem maker. They've sent me a replacement chip already in case it was a bad flash, but it did not do anything.

 

[ko888]

Exactly, three long beeps. That's the only interaction I can get with the mobo.

At least I can now rule the PSU out. Went over it with a mutlimeter to control each pin.
Everything is correct there.

Should I put the mobo back as the main suspect?

It can still be a problem with the graphics card.

Since you don't have access to a spare graphics card to test with you're not going to get very far in your troubleshooting.

 

[TenPc]

The bios chip, how did you get the old one off and how did you get the replacement on the motherboard?
I always thought tthey were soldered on and unremovable.

Remove the video card and see if the PC boots up, you only need it to power on, at this stage.

You might have to send the motherboard back to Asrock, not RMA but just for them to service the motherboard (cmos chip).

 

[ko888]

On the ASRock 970 Extreme3 the BIOS EEPROM chip is in a socket so it can be removed and replaced if necessary.

At this point there is no proof as to exactly which component is faulty.

The graphics card needs to be tested in another system to determine if it's functioning correctly.

 

[TenPc]

On the ASRock 970 Extreme3 the BIOS EEPROM chip is in a socket so it can be removed and replaced if necessary.

At this point there is no proof as to exactly which component is faulty.

The graphics card needs to be tested in another system to determine if it's functioning correctly.

Thanks for the info, maybe the OP put it in back to front?

"The computer starts. Fans spin up, hard disks spin up, but it does not POST"
Perhaps you are right about the video card, it does match the OP details in his first post, however, an onboard video out would also rule out a motherboard issue.

 

[ko888]

Since the ASRock 970 Extreme3 doesn't have onboard/integrated graphics that makes it more difficult to troubleshoot.

 

[MakeSense]

The bios chip, how did you get the old one off and how did you get the replacement on the motherboard?
I always thought tthey were soldered on and unremovable.

Remove the video card and see if the PC boots up, you only need it to power on, at this stage.

You might have to send the motherboard back to Asrock, not RMA but just for them to service the motherboard (cmos chip).

Nope, you just pry it out of the socket and plug a new one in.

I have removed the video card, although it does not make a difference. Fans still just spin up and nothing happens.
No beep codes, nothing.

The thing about RMA is that ASRock asked me to do it through the retailer, and the one year warranty have passed with about two months, so I that way buying a new motherboard would be a way easier and cheaper option, although if I do so I want to be certain that that will fix it because I'm on a very limited budget because of college and maintaining long distance relationship.

On the ASRock 970 Extreme3 the BIOS EEPROM chip is in a socket so it can be removed and replaced if necessary.

At this point there is no proof as to exactly which component is faulty.

The graphics card needs to be tested in another system to determine if it's functioning correctly.

I had a friend over today who said he could try the video card in his computer, because it's easy to just swap out.
I'll ask him tomorrow and if so I'll go over with it and let him try my card out in his computer.

But I'm still doubtful because there's no difference when I remove the video card, and it's the most expensive to replace so there's some wishful thinking in here too that it's something else.

I just think it's a very wierd problem.

 

[MakeSense]

One thing that caught my attention yesterday however, which I went back to confirm now..
On the PSU, every pin reads Ok in terms of Voltage. Although measuring the power_ok/power_good-pin which AFAIK is supposed to be between 3 and 6V on it has a very shaky voltage. On average over a minute it's between 100 to 200 mV with spikes up to 1.5V every now and then.

Can this be the cause of the problem, that the PSU never tells the rest of the system it's Ok to start up because the voltage on that line is too low, or is this expected?

 

[ko888]

One thing that caught my attention yesterday however, which I went back to confirm now..
On the PSU, every pin reads Ok in terms of Voltage. Although measuring the power_ok/power_good-pin which AFAIK is supposed to be between 3 and 6V on it has a very shaky voltage. On average over a minute it's between 100 to 200 mV with spikes up to 1.5V every now and then.

Can this be the cause of the problem, that the PSU never tells the rest of the system it's Ok to start up because the voltage on that line is too low, or is this expected?

PWR_OK

PWR_OK is a power good signal and should be asserted high by the power supply to indicate that the +5VDC and +3.3VDC outputs are above the undervoltage thresholds of the power supply. When this signal is asserted high, there should be sufficient energy stored by the converter to guarantee continuous power operation within specification. Conversely, when the output voltages fall below the undervoltage threshold, or when mains power has been removed for a time sufficiently long so that power supply operation is no longer guaranteed, PWR_OK should be de-asserted to a low state. The recommended electrical and timing characteristics of the PWR_OK signal are provided in the ATX/ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide.
Motherboards should be designed so the signal timings recommended in the ATX/ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide are used. Using these recommendations will help drive the industry to an acceptable standard.

PWOK Signal Characteristics

Signal Type +5V TTL Compatible output signal
PWOK = High Power OK
PWOK = Low Power Not OK

Logic level low voltage, Isink = 4 mA - MIN 0 V, MAX 0.4 V
Logic level high voltage, Isource=200 mA - MIN 2.4 V, MAX 5.25 V
PWOK delay: Tpwok_on - MIN 200 ms, MAX 1000 ms
PWOK rise and fall time - MIN 100 ms
Power down delay: Tpwok_off - MIN 1 ms

The PWR_OK signal should be pulled low for a brief time (i.e. 100–500 ms) after the PS_ON# signal is pulled low and should then return back to its normal +5V high.

Some power supplies require that a load be placed on the PSU so that the PWR_OK's voltage level can be correctly measured. If the PSU doesn't have a load placed on it (i.e. nothing connected to it) the PWR_OK signal will fluctuate.

What is the brand and model number of your PSU?

 

[MakeSense]

One thing that caught my attention yesterday however, which I went back to confirm now..
On the PSU, every pin reads Ok in terms of Voltage. Although measuring the power_ok/power_good-pin which AFAIK is supposed to be between 3 and 6V on it has a very shaky voltage. On average over a minute it's between 100 to 200 mV with spikes up to 1.5V every now and then.

Can this be the cause of the problem, that the PSU never tells the rest of the system it's Ok to start up because the voltage on that line is too low, or is this expected?

PWR_OK

PWR_OK is a power good signal and should be asserted high by the power supply to indicate that the +5VDC and +3.3VDC outputs are above the undervoltage thresholds of the power supply. When this signal is asserted high, there should be sufficient energy stored by the converter to guarantee continuous power operation within specification. Conversely, when the output voltages fall below the undervoltage threshold, or when mains power has been removed for a time sufficiently long so that power supply operation is no longer guaranteed, PWR_OK should be de-asserted to a low state. The recommended electrical and timing characteristics of the PWR_OK signal are provided in the ATX/ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide.
Motherboards should be designed so the signal timings recommended in the ATX/ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide are used. Using these recommendations will help drive the industry to an acceptable standard.

PWOK Signal Characteristics

Signal Type +5V TTL Compatible output signal
PWOK = High Power OK
PWOK = Low Power Not OK

Logic level low voltage, Isink = 4 mA - MIN 0 V, MAX 0.4 V
Logic level high voltage, Isource=200 mA - MIN 2.4 V, MAX 5.25 V
PWOK delay: Tpwok_on - MIN 200 ms, MAX 1000 ms
PWOK rise and fall time - MIN 100 ms
Power down delay: Tpwok_off - MIN 1 ms

The PWR_OK signal should be pulled low for a brief time (i.e. 100–500 ms) after the PS_ON# signal is pulled low and should then return back to its normal +5V high.

Some power supplies require that a load be placed on the PSU so that the PWR_OK's voltage level can be correctly measured. If the PSU doesn't have a load placed on it (i.e. nothing connected to it) the PWR_OK signal will fluctuate.

What is the brand and model number of your PSU?

The PSU is a Fractal Design Tesla 650W (Mod.No: FD-PSU-TESLA-650) that's been with me since mid-2010.
But then the readings make sense on the PSU at least.

I'm thinking if the easiest solution isn't just to buy a mobo and hold my thumbs that that will solve it. Would be nice to be certain first though.

 

[ko888]

The PSU is a Fractal Design Tesla 650W (Mod.No: FD-PSU-TESLA-650) that's been with me since mid-2010.
But then the readings make sense on the PSU at least.

I'm thinking if the easiest solution isn't just to buy a mobo and hold my thumbs that that will solve it. Would be nice to be certain first though.

Borrow your friend's PSU and try it.

 

[TenPc]

Since the ASRock 970 Extreme3 doesn't have onboard/integrated graphics that makes it more difficult to troubleshoot.

lol, I forgot to check the motherboard..

Edit -
what is your video card?

Edit2 -
did you send back the cmos chip before receiving the new one? If so then your motherboard had no bios for x amount of time, that would do something, not sure what ... How long did you have to wait for the chip? A new chip would have to be updated via an external drive, it wouldn't have the information stored, actually not really sure at this time. I'll go ask.. The PSU might not start up if there is no information in the bios.

You might have to take out the cmos chip and re-insert, those fragile little spikes do get easily bent and must be inserted correctly.

Edit 3 -
I've asked a Question, it might be helpful or just a waste of time.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1669192/cmos-chip-replacement-stored-data.html

 

[MakeSense]

Since the ASRock 970 Extreme3 doesn't have onboard/integrated graphics that makes it more difficult to troubleshoot.

lol, I forgot to check the motherboard..

Edit -
what is your video card?

Edit2 -
did you send back the cmos chip before receiving the new one? If so then your motherboard had no bios for x amount of time, that would do something, not sure what ... How long did you have to wait for the chip? A new chip would have to be updated via an external drive, it wouldn't have the information stored, actually not really sure at this time. I'll go ask.. The PSU might not start up if there is no information in the bios.

You might have to take out the cmos chip and re-insert, those fragile little spikes do get easily bent and must be inserted correctly.

Edit 3 -
I've asked a Question, it might be helpful or just a waste of time.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-1669192/cmos-chip-replacement-stored-data.html

Video card is an EVGA GTX 670 2GB.

I did not send the CMOS chip in, they sent me a new chip in a letter, so my motherboard was without chip for no more than 30 seconds. Reseated it now aswell, no difference.

 

[TenPc]

Hey, thanks for replying, I was wracking my brains trying to remember the effects of a cmos chip off the motherboard, it's been a while since I've had that information. basically, the chip can get corrupted if not powered for any length of time but that was with chips of years gone by, they might make them better nowadays.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970%20Extreme3/index.us.asp?cat=Specifications

The only thing I can think of apart from the PSU would be that the pins of the CPU might be bent or misaligned. You might have to check them to make sure they are all in a straight line.

Check the video card, it has to be seated evenly in the slot, sometimes it can sit crookedly without realising it and stop everything from happening.

 

[MakeSense]

Hey, thanks for replying, I was wracking my brains trying to remember the effects of a cmos chip off the motherboard, it's been a while since I've had that information. basically, the chip can get corrupted if not powered for any length of time but that was with chips of years gone by, they might make them better nowadays.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970%20Extreme3/index.us.asp?cat=Specifications

The only thing I can think of apart from the PSU would be that the pins of the CPU might be bent or misaligned. You might have to check them to make sure they are all in a straight line.

Check the video card, it has to be seated evenly in the slot, sometimes it can sit crookedly without realising it and stop everything from happening.

Wouldn't the mobo react then if I run without a video card?
CPU pins are straight, it has been reseated to check if there's some dirt in the socket or on the pins, and if anything is bent or not.

In 2-3 days I will have a CMOS chip containing the previous BIOS version, in case there is some error with that.
I mailed ASRock support again and they'll send me one. With the new BIOS they introduced some new features, Win8 support etc, in the unlikely case that there's something there causing this problem.

When I get time I'll check the video card at a friend. Unfortunately I cannot borrow his PSU (too much rewiring trouble removing it and putting it back for him).

If the video card is ok, and new CMOS does not fix it, I'll replace motherboard, if it does not fix it I'll just sell it, sure it's a small loss of money, but I'm getting really fed up with having nothing working.

 

[TenPc]

Did you tell them your motherboard model and number and that your motherboard had no onboard video out ?
The default for most motherboards is onboard video out and considering that you don't have one, it will be interesting to see if the new chip does work. Also, the chip has been without power for a certain period of time, hopefully by the time you get it, it hasn't corrupted.

If the video card is not seated properly, it might still work but may cause issues when extra memory is required if the contacts are not touching the inside of slot properly.

Also, under the motherboard are things called stand-offfs, any errant standoffs not in use should be removed so they don't touch any circutry on the underneath part of the motherboard.

You may have to replace the motherboard, it might be your only choice.

 

[MakeSense]

Did you tell them your motherboard model and number and that your motherboard had no onboard video out ?
The default for most motherboards is onboard video out and considering that you don't have one, it will be interesting to see if the new chip does work. Also, the chip has been without power for a certain period of time, hopefully by the time you get it, it hasn't corrupted.

If the video card is not seated properly, it might still work but may cause issues when extra memory is required if the contacts are not touching the inside of slot properly.

Also, under the motherboard are things called stand-offfs, any errant standoffs not in use should be removed so they don't touch any circutry on the underneath part of the motherboard.

You may have to replace the motherboard, it might be your only choice.

Yes, the support has all the details they need from my motherboard. The standoffs are not the problem as I have removed everything from the chassi and tried running it outside, just in case a short somewhere caused the problem.

I will get the chip latest Wednesday I think. If it doesn't work then I have my eyes on a Gigabyte replacement mobo.

Before I took the GPU out from the mobo completely, it had been reseated a couple of times, and properly properly fastened in the chassi with screws. So that should not be the cause. I feel like there's nothing I haven't tried considering the desktop have been dead for a month.

I assume motherboards can just work one second, and then be dead the next without any warnings as was the case
when I had an SSD die on me last summer. Just hold my thumbs replacing the motherboard will solve the problem if downgrading BIOS won't. I have a feeling it will do nothing, but it's worth trying.

Anyway, I really do appreciate all the time you all have put in trying to help me figure this out.

 

[TenPc]

According to my Question about the cmos chip, the cmos only holds the data (it's under the cmos battery) that you change in the Bios to which is it's own chip (the one with spiky edges, you need to make sure you don't bend the pins and that they do seat squarely and properly). The bios chip does not require a power source, the code is "embedded" in the chip, it's only the cmos chip that holds your changes that you make soif the battery is removed or goes flat, the bios utility reverts back to its original data. Actually, I'm not sure if I even knew that or maybe I did but just forgot the finer details...

I had a PC that just died on me, I couldn't figure out why it did. I changed just about everything except the motherboard but nothing worked. I eventually threw out the motherboard in disgust. That motherboard was really old (Pentium 3), only had Windows 98SE on the hdd and that problem occured more than 8 years ago.

There are just no easy fixes, it could be anything from this to that with everything in between, as being the problem.

One thread went on for almost 3 pages until the OP "discovered" that all his hardware was chock full of DUST! Gosh! Nothing said about it by anyone in the entire thread. When the OP had blown away all the dust, the PC worked fine. I chose his reply as BEST ANSWER as he had discovered the problem himself.

Sooo, when you updated the bios, did you use the update pertaining to your cpu? I noticed in the CPU list that there are two entries for the Phenom II 965 BE, which one did you choose?

Usually with a bios update you should be able to still power on, other threads have just stated that the OP just re-flashed the bios back to its original state. I wonder why your PC does not at least boot to some sort of POST?

I've actually done a flash of the bios about 12 years ago, I did it to two motherboards. They seemed to work for about 3 minutes then just carked it. I vowed never to do that again! Back in those days, you had to use a floppy disk with the data downloaded from the bios manufacturer and not the motherboard manufacturer which seems, now, rather ominous. The risk was much higher (oh, durrr!) and it had been reported that it was not always stable.. gosh! Well, flashing today is much easier and safer, the risk is minimal unless you use the wrong version.

Keep us informed of your progress.

 

[MakeSense]

According to my Question about the cmos chip, the cmos only holds the data (it's under the cmos battery) that you change in the Bios to which is it's own chip (the one with spiky edges, you need to make sure you don't bend the pins and that they do seat squarely and properly). The bios chip does not require a power source, the code is "embedded" in the chip, it's only the cmos chip that holds your changes that you make soif the battery is removed or goes flat, the bios utility reverts back to its original data. Actually, I'm not sure if I even knew that or maybe I did but just forgot the finer details...

I had a PC that just died on me, I couldn't figure out why it did. I changed just about everything except the motherboard but nothing worked. I eventually threw out the motherboard in disgust. That motherboard was really old (Pentium 3), only had Windows 98SE on the hdd and that problem occured more than 8 years ago.

There are just no easy fixes, it could be anything from this to that with everything in between, as being the problem.

One thread went on for almost 3 pages until the OP "discovered" that all his hardware was chock full of DUST! Gosh! Nothing said about it by anyone in the entire thread. When the OP had blown away all the dust, the PC worked fine. I chose his reply as BEST ANSWER as he had discovered the problem himself.

Sooo, when you updated the bios, did you use the update pertaining to your cpu? I noticed in the CPU list that there are two entries for the Phenom II 965 BE, which one did you choose?

Usually with a bios update you should be able to still power on, other threads have just stated that the OP just re-flashed the bios back to its original state. I wonder why your PC does not at least boot to some sort of POST?

I've actually done a flash of the bios about 12 years ago, I did it to two motherboards. They seemed to work for about 3 minutes then just carked it. I vowed never to do that again! Back in those days, you had to use a floppy disk with the data downloaded from the bios manufacturer and not the motherboard manufacturer which seems, now, rather ominous. The risk was much higher (oh, durrr!) and it had been reported that it was not always stable.. gosh! Well, flashing today is much easier and safer, the risk is minimal unless you use the wrong version.

Keep us informed of your progress.

At least dust is not the problem here

I'm not aware that there are different BIOS for different CPUs(?)
Looking at the CPU support list, I see two Phenom II 965 with different TDP, but they should be supported by all version of the BIOS. Hopefully it's just an error with the new BIOS version, even though it ran on it for a short while. Anyway, I'll update here once I get it up and running again for future references for others.

 

[MakeSense]

I recieved a BIOS chip with a previous BIOS version, although reverting did not do anything.
Because I cannot pin the problem down to CPU or Motherboard, I will order a new motherboard and hope that it solves the problem.

 

[TenPc]

I'm not sure whether there is a difference in bios updates for either version of the cpu, one would assume it to be generic for all versions however, on the other hand, maybe there is a different verison, just numbered the same for convenience sake?

I wonder whether Asus (or anyone) could ever answer that convincingly?

There doesn't seem to be any solution other than buying or acquiring a different motherbnoard, you mucked it all up yourself!
"A month ago I updated my BIOS and the computer ran fine for about 2 restarts, then on the third I tried entering some menus, everything went black and that's where I'm at now."

Before you update the bios on your next motherboard, go check the steps required to do an update.

Happy computing on your next rig!