[SOLVED] Noctua-DH15 with i7 10700k or i9 10900k

[nguyencongthienvu]

I have questions, currently I have noctua DH-15 CH-Black, it can cool well i7 10700k or i9 10900k stock at default setting ? and temperature it can reach when gaming ?

 

[RealBeast]

I have questions, currently I have noctua DH-15 CH-Black, it can cool well i7 10700k or i9 10900k stock at default setting ? and temperature it can reach when gaming ?

I expect that it should do quite well.

 

[geofelt]

What is the make/model of your case?
How well a NH-D15 does will, in some part depend on how well your case is able to supply fresh air to the cooler to let it do it's job. With two 120/140mm front intakes, you should be OK with either processor.
No telling what the max temperature will be.
At 100c. the processor will slow down or shut off to protect itself from damage.
I would expect much less.

I might add that for gaming, a i5-10600K will do very well. There really is little need for more than the i7-10700K.

 

[nguyencongthienvu]

What is the make/model of your case?
How well a NH-D15 does will, in some part depend on how well your case is able to supply fresh air to the cooler to let it do it's job. With two 120/140mm front intakes, you should be OK with either processor.
No telling what the max temperature will be.
At 100c. the processor will slow down or shut off to protect itself from damage.
I would expect much less.

I might add that for gaming, a i5-10600K will do very well. There really is little need for more than the i7-10700K.

http://www.deepcool.com/product/case/2018-11/9_9973.shtml I use this case, this case simple good enough with i7 9700k stock I have 4 fan case 140mm 1 back, 1 top, 2 front

 

[Phaaze88]

Responding to the thread title:
10700K: at stock, yes. Overclocked - in case you change your mind regarding it - no.
10900K: no, and no. This one demands liquid cooling - 280mm or greater.

 

[arjun90]

What if you get an 10900K and not overclock? Do you still recommend a liquid cooling solution at that point?

Responding to the thread title:
10700K: at stock, yes. Overclocked - in case you change your mind regarding it - no.
10900K: no, and no. This one demands liquid cooling - 280mm or greater.

 

[Phaaze88]

What if you get an 10900K and not overclock? Do you still recommend a liquid cooling solution at that point?

Yes. That thing is just too much...

https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb

View: https://imgur.com/YwqWtBb


The above is the stock operation following Intel's guidelines.
PL 1, or Power Limit 1 is for the cpu at base frequencies. For the 10900K, that's just 3.70ghz.
Power Limit 2 is for the cpu to reach those advertised boost and all core frequencies, as well as the 10900K's exclusive Thermal Velocity Boost.
Tau is the duration the cpu is allowed to run at PL 2 before it's forced to roll back to PL 1 temporarily.
Overclocking throws all that out the window.

250w is around the limit for air coolers. After that, they drop off HARD.
If the best air coolers are good for 250w, and you've got a cpu that can put out 250w, that leaves no thermal headroom, and the cpu is guaranteed to either thermal throttle, or be uncomfortably hot.

 

[arjun90]

Is there anything wrong in terms of getting the non-K model for gaming and video editing?

Also, coming back to the Core-i9-10900K, why do some owners claim that the CPU is doing just fine at stock without a liquid cooling solution?

 

[geofelt]

Your case is an excellent one for air cooling.
The NH-D15 is as good as it gets for air cooling.
Since you already have them, it makes sense to try them out.
If anything needs more cpu cooling, you are looking at a 360 aio or custom liquid cooler. The only place for that is in front. That will come at a hurt to graphics card cooling.
As to i9-10900K or i7-10700K, it depends on what your main purpose is.
Either will be cooled well enough with a NH-D15 and either will play games about the same. The difference is that multithreaded batch apps that can use 20 threads will run better on the I9. For games you will see no difference in performance.
The i9 chips are better binned and can probably overclock a multiplier or two better.
If budget is no issue, buy the i9 and do some experimenting with overclocking.
You might opt to use fewer than 10 cores to get faster single thread performance for games.
On balance, though, if budget is any issue at all, get the i7,

 

[arjun90]

Linus says the thermals are good even at stock cooling

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLsoJkQb0Cs

to answer your question:
10700K: at stock, yes. Overclocked - in case you change your mind regarding it - no.
10900K: no, and no. This one demands liquid cooling - 280mm or greater.

 

[Phaaze88]

That's because of the 'conservative' power limits Intel has implemented this time around.
At the same time, the user isn't getting the full force of the cpu unless they remove the power limit... after which, things quickly get out of hand.

The Blender workload run through the video:
The 10900K was running some 60-65C, but when they slide over to the frequencies, it was sitting at an all core, 4.0ghz throughout most of the run!
Power consumption was at 125w throughout most of it as well.

In the few gaming benchmarks that were posted, you see just how restrictive that power limit is on that cpu:
The 10600K was providing similar performance! In the benchmarks where the 10600K falls behind, that was due to the 10900K's 8 extra threads.

Is there anything wrong in terms of getting the non-K model for gaming and video editing?

Other than price - if you still grab a Z series mobo - not really.

Also, coming back to the Core-i9-10900K, why do some owners claim that the CPU is doing just fine at stock without a liquid cooling solution?

I think that's due to:
1)They aren't aware how restrictive those power limits are on this cpu's performance, as I mentioned above. They're not getting that sweet 5.0ghz+ all the time.
It'll come in bursts if there's room to do it. To keep that frequency, they'll have to remove the power limits...

2)They went overkill on what they really needed, i.e., they basically bought a Porsche, but only play on the CSGO or LoL Thruway, or something like that.

 

[arjun90]

Well said, I definitely appreciate your thorough explanation of this

I found Gamer's Nexus finding also puzzling,

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/...erboards-with-default-settings-for-your-build

Its extremely to get in contact with someone at Gigabyte Technology. They still haven't responded to my inquiry. That alone makes me want to consider ASUS or MSI in my next build. I can't justify returning my Gigabyte Z490 board as that would change the troubleshooting variables I'm dealing in terms of thermal and power throttling. I just received the K-model and will be using a Noctua NH-U12A CPU Cooler all fitted into my Fractal Design Core 500 Case. I hope the results turn out well and that too complemented by a EVGA RTX 2060 KO Ultra.

I don't plans to upgrade the card until the RTX 30xx series comes out. Hopefully, there will be an RTX 2060 available and can entice me to upgrade to a dedicated gaming monitor. I do a lot flight simulation in my leisure time and am looking forward to Microsoft's Flight Simulator 2020. It seems like I exceed minimum specs, but I just want to crank it up just a tad bit. I think 32GB of RAM will be the new norm in the not so distant future.

That's because of the 'conservative' power limits Intel has implemented this time around.
At the same time, the user isn't getting the full force of the cpu unless they remove the power limit... after which, things quickly get out of hand.

The Blender workload run through the video:
The 10900K was running some 60-65C, but when they slide over to the frequencies, it was sitting at an all core, 4.0ghz throughout most of the run!
Power consumption was at 125w throughout most of it as well.

In the few gaming benchmarks that were posted, you see just how restrictive that power limit is on that cpu:
The 10600K was providing similar performance! In the benchmarks where the 10600K falls behind, that was due to the 10900K's 8 extra threads.


Other than price - if you still grab a Z series mobo - not really.


I think that's due to:
1)They aren't aware how restrictive those power limits are on this cpu's performance, as I mentioned above. They're not getting that sweet 5.0ghz+ all the time.
It'll come in bursts if there's room to do it. To keep that frequency, they'll have to remove the power limits...

2)They went overkill on what they really needed, i.e., they basically bought a Porsche, but only play on the CSGO or LoL Thruway, or something like that.

 

[Phaaze88]

I found Gamer's Nexus finding also puzzling,

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/...erboards-with-default-settings-for-your-build

This is something that's been going on all the time. It's the usual crap from the mobo vendors trying to one up each other by making their boards look better by sneakily squeezing out more performance.
Not only do these 'tweaks' go against Intel and AMD's guidelines for stock operation, they can screw over the end users. Examples:
Cpu boost behavior or base frequency tweaked:
"Why is my cpu running warmer out of the box in this motherboard VS another, even though they're the same chipset?"

No 2 pieces of silicon are the same. Some cpus do not react too well with the changes made:
"This motherboard was such a headache! It kept crashing on me in Blender workloads. I tried EVERYTHING to fix it, and nothing! I went and got a different motherboard, and problem solved! I'm never going back to that company!"

All the vendors are guilty of it at some point or another, though lately, Asus appears to be following the guidelines the closest...

 

[arjun90]

I heard the ASUS VRM's weren't as robust as Gigabyte's and MSI's offering. Interestingly, Gigabyte and MSI are both not adhering to Intel's guidelines. To make matters safe, do you think I would have been better off with using the ASUS board for the 10700 (non-K) model?

This is something that's been going on all the time. It's the usual crap from the mobo vendors trying to one up each other by making their boards look better by sneakily squeezing out more performance.
Not only do these 'tweaks' go against Intel and AMD's guidelines for stock operation, they can screw over the end users. Examples:
Cpu boost behavior or base frequency tweaked:
"Why is my cpu running warmer out of the box in this motherboard VS another, even though they're the same chipset?"

No 2 pieces of silicon are the same. Some cpus do not react too well with the changes made:
"This motherboard was such a headache! It kept crashing on me in Blender workloads. I tried EVERYTHING to fix it, and nothing! I went and got a different motherboard, and problem solved! I'm never going back to that company!"

All the vendors are guilty of it at some point or another, though lately, Asus appears to be following the guidelines the closest...

 

[Phaaze88]

I heard the ASUS VRM's weren't as robust as Gigabyte's and MSI's offering.

They really like to use doublers for some reason - doesn't mean they're not efficient though.
VRM design that's 'sufficient' VS the 'over-engineered' one.

To make matters safe, do you think I would have been better off with using the ASUS board for the 10700 (non-K) model?

Not really. You're informed about some of the motherboard shenanigans now - there are ways around them, but it requires a more manual approach...
Then again, that's not why most people purchase motherboards; they want the to work properly out of the box.

If there's one thing Asus has going for them, it's that they have the most user-friendly bios on their motherboards. Everything else though(IMO),

 

[arjun90]

Thanks, what are your thoughts on MSI and ASRock?

They really like to use doublers for some reason - doesn't mean they're not efficient though.
VRM design that's 'sufficient' VS the 'over-engineered' one.


Not really. You're informed about some of the motherboard shenanigans now - there are ways around them, but it requires a more manual approach...
Then again, that's not why most people purchase motherboards; they want the to work properly out of the box.

If there's one thing Asus has going for them, it's that they have the most user-friendly bios on their motherboards. Everything else though(IMO),

 

[Phaaze88]

Thanks, what are your thoughts on MSI and ASRock?

Msi is ok. I really like their dragon motif!
Asrock hasn't been so great as of late. They were a nice alternative to Asus, considering the people who started the company had broken off from Asus.
No need to watch all the videos, as they all make Asrock look bad.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgNEXpBrfg

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKiwDL3UrA

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iLS3poPn8o

I don't think Asrock even makes a cameo here...

Unrelated, but there's also the mess that is their X570 Taichi. The stock settings heavily violate the power reporting from the board, to the point that it makes the cpu perform better than most of the PBO profiles!

 

[arjun90]

If you had to choose between Gigabyte or MSI, who would it be?

Msi is ok. I really like their dragon motif!
Asrock hasn't been so great as of late. They were a nice alternative to Asus, considering the people who started the company had broken off from Asus.
No need to watch all the videos, as they all make Asrock look bad.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgNEXpBrfg

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmKiwDL3UrA

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iLS3poPn8o

I don't think Asrock even makes a cameo here...

Unrelated, but there's also the mess that is their X570 Taichi. The stock settings heavily violate the power reporting from the board, to the point that it makes the cpu perform better than most of the PBO profiles!

 

[Phaaze88]

Gigabyte.

 

[nguyencongthienvu]

Gigabyte.

Hi guy I have AIO Cooler Master Masterliquid ML360R RGB, is it good or I need update it and if update which best for cpu and my case Deepcool E-shield ? currently I found 2:
AIO NZXT Kraken X72
ASUS ROG STRIX LC 360 RGB

 

[Phaaze88]

Deepcool E-shield

Just in case you don't know: a 280/360mm AIO in the front will require you to remove the optical drive bay.

A)NZXT Kraken X72
-equipped with 3x AER P120 fans: https://www.nzxt.com/products/aer-p#product-spec
-6 year warranty
-OEM is Asetek
-NZXT CAM software required to control the unit

B)Cooler Master Masterliquid ML360R RGB
-equipped with 3x Masterfan MF120R ARGB fans: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/coolers/case-fan/masterfan-mf120r-argb/#Specifications
-2 year warranty
-pump and radiator are in-house design
-control software not required, but the one they do have is still in a beta state - last time I heard about it, at least.

C)Asus Rog Strix LC 360 RGB
-equipped with 3x 'ROG Designed A-RGB radiator fans' - whatever that means: https://www.asus.com/Cooling/ROG-STRIX-LC-360-RGB/specifications/
-5 year warranty
-OEM is Asetek
-Armoury Crate software not required to control the unit

The above are the primary differences between them.
Performance-wise, there's no discernible difference, save for the fans.

 

[nguyencongthienvu]

Just in case you don't know: a 280/360mm AIO in the front will require you to remove the optical drive bay.

A)NZXT Kraken X72
-equipped with 3x AER P120 fans: https://www.nzxt.com/products/aer-p#product-spec
-6 year warranty
-OEM is Asetek
-NZXT CAM software required to control the unit

B)Cooler Master Masterliquid ML360R RGB
-equipped with 3x Masterfan MF120R ARGB fans: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/coolers/case-fan/masterfan-mf120r-argb/#Specifications
-2 year warranty
-pump and radiator are in-house design
-control software not required, but the one they do have is still in a beta state - last time I heard about it, at least.

C)Asus Rog Strix LC 360 RGB
-equipped with 3x 'ROG Designed A-RGB radiator fans' - whatever that means: https://www.asus.com/Cooling/ROG-STRIX-LC-360-RGB/specifications/
-5 year warranty
-OEM is Asetek
-Armoury Crate software not required to control the unit

The above are the primary differences between them.
Performance-wise, there's no discernible difference, save for the fans.

Yes I have already removed optical drive bay, currently I use Cooler Master Masterliquid ML360R RGB, but don't know is it good for i9 10900k stock speed or not, some people said not and recomend me use NZXT Kraken X72

 

[Phaaze88]

Yes I have already removed optical drive bay, currently I use Cooler Master Masterliquid ML360R RGB, but don't know is it good for i9 10900k stock speed or not, some people said not and recomend me use NZXT Kraken X72

Oookay...
Did those people give you a legit reason why to use the Kraken X72 over the ML360R?
A typical 360mm AIO is good for some 350w of waste heat. The 10900K has a power limit of 250w on PL 2... so there's plenty of headroom with that cooler.
I already pointed out the biggest differences between the 2 coolers... what are those people getting at?

 

[nguyencongthienvu]

Oookay...
Did those people give you a legit reason why to use the Kraken X72 over the ML360R?
A typical 360mm AIO is good for some 350w of waste heat. The 10900K has a power limit of 250w on PL 2... so there's plenty of headroom with that cooler.
I already pointed out the biggest differences between the 2 coolers... what are those people getting at?

I got it, what do you think if I put AIO at front, 2 fan case top, 1 fan case back ?

 

[Phaaze88]

I got it, what do you think if I put AIO at front, 2 fan case top, 1 fan case back ?

Should be fine.