Nokia Preparing to Announce 'Arrow' and 'Phi' WP8 Devices

[JMcEntegart]

A little more information on what we can expect from Nokia event taking place in less than two weeks' time.

Nokia Preparing to Announce 'Arrow' and 'Phi' WP8 Devices : Read more

 

[internetlad]

Still no love for Verizon eh?

 

[Guest]

Given that this is LESS THAN SIX MONTHS after the Lumia series hit the market, and that those devices *won't* support WP8, they should start off the presentation with a slide that reads, "EARLY ADOPTERS? FUCK YOU!"

 

[booyaah]

More like Verizon hates MS, or they have been in the back pocket of Google for a while.

Take your pick.

 

[Marcus52]

Microsoft/Nokia are stabbing themselves in the feet by not having a Verizon phone.

Also, gone are the days when non-contract service was a sign you were some kind of low-life (if that was ever true); unlocked phones should be provided by all manufacturers.

They need a screaming top-end phone, not just a "very good" one; if you aren't up there with the Galaxy S III, you are shooting for second place, at best.

 

[carnage9270]

Microsoft and AT&T have a partnership, so the other providers get screwed for a while. How does this partnership come about...Microsoft headquarters and AT&T headquarters are literally a mile apart in Redmond. Pretty stupid on Microsoft's part though. They want market share and sign exclusivity agreements...pro.

 

[teh_chem]

[citation][nom]shmung[/nom]why does t-mobile and verizon get the shit mid range devices the lumia 710 was great but it didn't have enough power and now t-mobile gets shafted again with the stupid arrow i was looking forward to a bigger screen but that one has the same 4 inch 480x800 awfulness that i wanted to avoid t-mobile and verizon are the only companies that work well around where i live att support sucks and sprint just doesnt get service why do they not think that a good phone with a 720p screen would work on these networks[/citation]
Protip: Periods aren't just for menstruating women.

On topic, I'm sure the handsets will trickle out to other providers. It's interesting to hear people criticizing Nokia for not rolling the phones out to other providers when an equally probable situation could be that the network doesn't want to take the chance on an unproven platform. It's a gamble, but I have high hopes that WP can be a good competitor in the mobile segment.

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]internetlad[/nom]Still no love for Verizon eh?[/citation]As a current Verizon Wireless customer, I can assure you that is entirely Verizon's fault.

Edit: To clarify I mean that if Verizon wanted more WP devices, there are multiple companies that would gladly build them one. Nokia is but one. I am hoping that WP8 will change that, eventually, and we'll finally see a decent modern WP device on Verizon. But make no mistake, the lack of WP devices on Verizon is not Microsoft or Nokia's desire.

 

[eddieroolz]

Cutting off compatibility with Windows Phone 7 was still the stupidest thing they could have done.

 

[CaedenV]

T-Mobile: I use to be a phone company too... until I took an arrow to the knee...

 

[CaedenV]

[citation][nom]eddieroolz[/nom]Cutting off compatibility with Windows Phone 7 was still the stupidest thing they could have done.[/citation]
why exactly? Most apps will still run on 7.8, the interface from 8 will move to 7.8, and 8 would run like crap, or physically not have the capability to run the new features on the older phones. They were upfront with the fact that there would be no upgrade option very early on (before lumia was released), so people knew what they were getting (or should have known what they were getting). I just don't see how some people find this to be an issue.

@article
Can't wait to hear more news, I have been waiting for a windows phone with SD card support for a few years now... it is the one feature I cannot live without, and I am neither mac or android compatible.

 

[belardo]

Most people off the street DO NOT KNOW that their months old phones are already orphaned. Yeah, MS/Nokia screwed their customers. Hence, the $50 value is all they are worth.

"Phi is said to be a successor the Lumia 800 and Lumia 900" - so, this is their low end?

 

[ojas]

Omg what if nokia takes an arrow to the knee?

 

[hetneo]

[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]Most people off the street DO NOT KNOW that their months old phones are already orphaned. Yeah, MS/Nokia screwed their customers. Hence, the $50 value is all they are worth."Phi is said to be a successor the Lumia 800 and Lumia 900" - so, this is their low end?[/citation]
Most of people on the street know that their phones will never get updates and don't expect them or can live without them. Lack of updates affects only whiny kids who were born after cellphone tech hit the markets back in the 90's. Suck it up, you got what you payed for.

 

[Bloob]

Given that WP phones are generally expected to be released mid-to-late october, but it being likely that Nokia is actually shipping phones earlier than that, it could be that ATT & TMobile just get a one month head start, seeing how they were the only ones supporting the earlier Lumias.

 

[epdm2be]

[citation][nom]CaedenV[/nom]why exactly? Most apps will still run on 7.8, the interface from 8 will move to 7.8, and 8 would run like crap, or physically not have the capability to run the new features on the older phones. They were upfront with the fact that there would be no upgrade option very early on (before lumia was released), so people knew what they were getting (or should have known what they were getting). I just don't see how some people find this to be an issue.@articleCan't wait to hear more news, I have been waiting for a windows phone with SD card support for a few years now... it is the one feature I cannot live without, and I am neither mac or android compatible.[/citation]

Why? Are you a goldfish? You seem to forget really quick. Microsoft screwed us first by cutting off support to/from Windows Mobile 6.5 with Windows Phone 7 and now they do it AGAIN with Windows Phone 8. MSFT is making a really good track record for themselves. Sure WP7 apps will run on 7,x but NOT the other way around! You can bet that soon devs will only program for WP8 and speed up the demise of WP7 and then MSFT just will shut down marketplace for WP7 (like they did with WM6.5 which was shut down in less than 6 months after WP7 came to market). While they could just kept the present marketplace as it is for the remaining WM-users (since e.g. belardo mentions ppl that most not even know that their device is defunkt).


Also there´s NO technical reason to drop support for the present WP7 devices (in fact prototype WP8 devices where in fact Lumia 800/900 phones so...). Especially since WP8 is supposed to support multiple cpu´s and multiple resolutions. It should be as versatile as their desktop counterpart yet it seems to be less versatile, supporting yet again only a subset of cpu´s etc...

But don't worry I´ll vote with my wallet! And will encourage others to do the same. F U MSFT and Nokia. You screwed me once but never again! Together with the turd that their future desktop OS is. MSFT will be "elopped" as well!

As for not being android and ios compatible. There´s more than Android (read: samsung) and Apple. I'm using Symbian for now which has the most ellaborate featureset but sadly hasn't got the appeal anymore. At an unbeatable price (except the 808) I reckon a Nokia 701 is the best allround device to have if you dislike clouds and enforced data-plans. I also look out for BB OS 10. I think technically QNX should be the most interesting OS to have on a smartphone and I'm curious to see what RIM has cooked up with it.

Plus there are the other small players. Nobody knows what those ex-meego/harmattan-guys are cooking up. And they surely don't need to sell billions of phones to get break-even (unlike the big Nokia, Samsung and Microsoft). I mean, let's be honest. Nokia still sells MORE phones worldwide then ANY other manufacturer, yet it isn´t enough to keep the company afloat??? This means either the shareholders/CEO's?owners are getting a way to big fee or they have a way too big infrastructure cost or taxes are way too high in finland regarding their revenue... but something is very wrong there!

 

[teh_chem]

[citation][nom]epdm2be[/nom]Why? Are you a goldfish? You seem to forget really quick. Microsoft screwed us first by cutting off support to/from Windows Mobile 6.5 with Windows Phone 7 and now they do it AGAIN with Windows Phone 8. MSFT is making a really good track record for themselves. Sure WP7 apps will run on 7,x but NOT the other way around! You can bet that soon devs will only program for WP8 and speed up the demise of WP7 and then MSFT just will shut down marketplace for WP7 (like they did with WM6.5 which was shut down in less than 6 months after WP7 came to market). While they could just kept the present marketplace as it is for the remaining WM-users (since e.g. belardo mentions ppl that most not even know that their device is defunkt).Also there´s NO technical reason to drop support for the present WP7 devices (in fact prototype WP8 devices where in fact Lumia 800/900 phones so...). Especially since WP8 is supposed to support multiple cpu´s and multiple resolutions. It should be as versatile as their desktop counterpart yet it seems to be less versatile, supporting yet again only a subset of cpu´s etc...But don't worry I´ll vote with my wallet! And will encourage others to do the same. F U MSFT and Nokia. You screwed me once but never again! Together with the turd that their future desktop OS is. MSFT will be "elopped" as well!As for not being android and ios compatible. There´s more than Android (read: samsung) and Apple. I'm using Symbian for now which has the most ellaborate featureset but sadly hasn't got the appeal anymore. At an unbeatable price (except the 808) I reckon a Nokia 701 is the best allround device to have if you dislike clouds and enforced data-plans. I also look out for BB OS 10. I think technically QNX should be the most interesting OS to have on a smartphone and I'm curious to see what RIM has cooked up with it.Plus there are the other small players. Nobody knows what those ex-meego/harmattan-guys are cooking up. And they surely don't need to sell billions of phones to get break-even (unlike the big Nokia, Samsung and Microsoft). I mean, let's be honest. Nokia still sells MORE phones worldwide then ANY other manufacturer, yet it isn´t enough to keep the company afloat??? This means either the shareholders/CEO's?owners are getting a way to big fee or they have a way too big infrastructure cost or taxes are way too high in finland regarding their revenue... but something is very wrong there![/citation]
The difference between now and then is Windows 8 is no longer a side-project OS on a subset of the devices that MS supports. It's much more ubiquitious, and hence will get much broader support. MS not supporting upgrades of pre-existing devices running 7.8 and older is no different than how Apple won't allow, say, 1st or 2nd gen ipod touches to update beyond iOS 4.0. No one can support a device indefinitely, it's just a sad timing situation where people got the newest thing and it's at the end of the update cycle. It doesn't mean MS (or developers) won't necessarily support those devices, they're just not upgradeable. And for good reason. MS hopes to fix the broken cycle of fragmentation and put a little bit of QC into devices. Android is a great alternative, but that's its biggest downside.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]epdm2be[/nom]Why? Are you a goldfish? You seem to forget really quick. Microsoft screwed us first by cutting off support to/from Windows Mobile 6.5 with Windows Phone 7 and now they do it AGAIN with Windows Phone 8. ~~ I also look out for BB OS 10. I think technically QNX should be the most interesting OS to have on a smartphone~~[/citation] Actually, its worse. MS made 6.5 devices (KIN 1 & 2) incompatible with WM 6.0... which was incompatible with 5.x.... MS has a good track record of burning their bridges on failed/old devices. Try getting drivers for a 2002 era MS joystick!

BB10 will most likely fail... Look, WP7 never hit above 2% market share... and as of now, BB is under 2% because they are selling out-dated devices that are about 2+ years old! BB devices are $30~50 now.
At best, BB10 can grow to 1~2% in a year or so... other than some business, the consumer market is past BB. They should have gone Android, included their OWN custom APPs and skin and be done with it.

Meego and others, those are just hobbyist Operating Systems (Check out Amiga OS and other old tech). The markets only has room for 2~4 standard players. Apple and Android are the two top secure ones. Everyone else is eating scraps.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]teh_chem[/nom]The difference between now and then is Windows 8 is no longer a side-project OS on a subset of the devices that MS supports. MS not supporting upgrades of pre-existing devices running 7.8 and older is no different than how Apple won't allow, say, 1st or 2nd gen ipod touches to update beyond iOS 4.0. No one can support a device indefinitely~~Android is a great alternative, but that's its biggest downside.[/citation] There is a SEVERE difference in supporting a 2002 product with a 2011 OS, no? My iPad1 won't be getting iOS6.0 and it doesn't matter - it'll be a 3 year old product when 6 comes out.
The Lumia 7~900 are current products. Their technology is a year out-of-date. MS has orphaned them because of how the OSes are completely different.

Most Android apps that runs on 2.x phones will run on 4.x phones. My phone went from 2.1>2.3, but it'll never run 4.x... its too old and doesn't have the required feature sets. Its also wearing out - as cell phones are such heavy use items - they only have a 2~4 year life span. (Dropping, battery wear, run-over, kicked, etc)

And yes, nobody has ANY business releasing any new products today that is sub Android 4.0. Yet, even Samsung has just released a new phone with 2.3?! (WTF?! Its a phone with a TV projector built in [10ft tall max]) since Android is open source, a developer can choose to use what they want. Those going with 2.x are doing so because they are using slower/lower end parts.

Microsoft has screwed WP7 owners, simple as that.

 

[belardo]

[citation][nom]Hetneo[/nom]Most of people on the street know that their phones will never get updates and don't expect them or can live without them. Lack of updates affects only whiny kids who were born after cellphone tech hit the markets back in the 90's. Suck it up, you got what you payed for.[/citation] Tech people know these things. Typical uses DO NOT. And yes, when updates fixes and enhances features - they are important. Going from Android 2.1 > 2.2 > 2.3 was a good step up each time. Wow, MS has gone from 7.0>7.5>7.8 for a reason.

When the developers for the weak WP7 dries up, those who have brand-new WP7 phones on American 2-yr contracts will have devices with nothing new. No new upgrades or whatever. That is getting screwed.
The 3000+ fart apps for WP7 are not going to do much good.

 

[Bloob]

What's all this about MS not supporting WP7 phones? They'll get 7.8 and at least the Lumias will get further updates, most likely other phones as well. Seeing how the APIs required for many apps and games will remain largely the same, most developers will choose to use the older APIs ( and maybe extend the WP8 version with WP8 specific features ), so there'll be plenty of apps coming.

Of course, I would have prefered them to bring WP8 for the older devices as well, but as I don't know why they didn't do it, I can't really comment on the validity of it. It's always a good idea to buy your devices based on what they are, and not on what they might become.

 

[hannibal]

WP8 just don't work well in those "old" Lumia type phones. They have so different hardware. So that is the reason. You could make WP8 to older machines too, but mots of the new programs would not run on older machines, because they would have so much worse hardware than the new real WP8 machines are, that it would useless.
It is allmost the same as installing windows 7 to old 486 with 4 MB memory... It may run it, but usefull???... Not!

 

[alextheblue]

[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]Actually, its worse. MS made 6.5 devices (KIN 1 & 2) incompatible with WM 6.0... which was incompatible with 5.x.... MS has a good track record of burning their bridges on failed/old devices.[/citation]You have no idea what you're talking about. Kin didn't run WM 6.5. Examples of a WM 6.5 device: Samsung Omnia II or an HTC HD2. Well-written software could run on quite a few versions. For example, Smartgear (the emulator) runs on WM2003, WM 5.x, and WM 6.x devices.

In fact, WP7 was the first version that would not run older software. They wanted a fresh start. WP8, on the other hand, will also run WP7 software. Furthermore, if the developers want, they can continue to target 7.x and 8. That's up to the developers, if it is worth the effort, not Microsoft.

I'd also like to note that the Marketplace for WM 6.x was trash. It was a hastily thrown-together effort. Microsoft didn't want to support it anymore, especially since near the end there was almost nothing being released on it that was worth a damn. The best way to get software for older WM 6.x and earlier devices is to just download the .cab off the net and install it. The Marketplace for WP7 is much better, and this will continue to improve with WP8.

 

[teh_chem]

[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]There is a SEVERE difference in supporting a 2002 product with a 2011 OS, no? My iPad1 won't be getting iOS6.0 and it doesn't matter - it'll be a 3 year old product when 6 comes out. The Lumia 7~900 are current products. Their technology is a year out-of-date. MS has orphaned them because of how the OSes are completely different.Most Android apps that runs on 2.x phones will run on 4.x phones. My phone went from 2.1>2.3, but it'll never run 4.x... its too old and doesn't have the required feature sets. Its also wearing out - as cell phones are such heavy use items - they only have a 2~4 year life span. (Dropping, battery wear, run-over, kicked, etc)And yes, nobody has ANY business releasing any new products today that is sub Android 4.0. Yet, even Samsung has just released a new phone with 2.3?! (WTF?! Its a phone with a TV projector built in [10ft tall max]) since Android is open source, a developer can choose to use what they want. Those going with 2.x are doing so because they are using slower/lower end parts.Microsoft has screwed WP7 owners, simple as that.[/citation]
2002 product? The first gen ipod touch came out in 2007 and the 2nd gen was out in 2008, so I really don't understand what you're talking about.

I'm curious what it is in windows 8 that windows 7.8 phone users won't get? MS is not abandoning support for 7.8, but they cannot deliver the performance and stability that will come with windows 8 phones if they have to consider the however many permutations of phone hardware that already exist. I'm so sick of half-functioning hardware, OS, and 3rd party apps. As a consumer looking for a better option, I'm happy for someone else to draw a line in the sand and have some standard. With Windows 8 supporting multi-core CPUs and 7.x did not (ergo 7.x and older phones were single-core), it makes no sense to roll out a more advanced OS to sub-standard hardware.

It was even detailed that a majority of the features that consumers would notice in Windows 8 would be added to 7.8. MS releasing a different OS on a different hardware platform doesn't immediately make the old OS non-functional.

And how many phone manufacturers and network providers honestly roll out Android updates? Unless you're using one of the few big-budget, big-name phones on the larger networks that has lots of support for the firmware and OS, chances are you don't get frequent--if any--OTA updates. Maybe one. IIRC mine got a 2.2 to 2.3 update, and that was WELL after 2.3 was in the wild for quite some time. Never got anything beyond that--probably because the hardware wasn't enough to support the newer OSs. How is Win 8 any different? Even if you bought a 2.3 phone just before ICS came out, if it lacks the fundamental hardware that allows ICS to do what it does, it makes no sense to even consider supporting that platform.

 

[belardo]

How is Win 8 any different? Even if you bought a 2.3 phone just before ICS came out, if it lacks the fundamental hardware that allows ICS

BECAUSE THE ANDROID APP WILL WORK ON a 2.3 or a 4.0 PHONE. Its not a totally alien kernal being used.. or more specifically, Android isn't a Desktop OS shoved into a cellphone. Making 7.8 look like 8.0 doesn't make it the same. My Android phone looks like WP7 with some enhancements over 8.0 even... doesn't make it a WP7/8 phone, does it?

While its not officially from Samsung, I can install ICS onto my Samsung GS1 phone - IF I WANT To. But I'm not bothering as I'm just going to get a new phone anyway. I expect it to be able to handle any version of Android 4.x and some or most of 5.x.




alextheblue : Yeah, you are right. But KinOS is still nothing more than a bastardized version of Windows CE 6.x which has many visual modern elements of 7.x as it was thrown together to be a semi-smart Phone OS to go into the market with iOS and Android. It took less than 2 months for MS to kill it... even thou (like WP7) it had some cool & slick functions. Look at WindowsCE 5.x/some Windows Phones in the past that look like Windows98.

Like Windows 8, Microsoft has been trying to tie phones to the desktop experience. And MS has constantly thrown their out-dated versions under a bus.