News Not a Bug: Cyberpunk Deletes Idling Cars, Scared Crowds

[Admin]

New reports from players and other game devs are peeling apart Cyberpunk's NPC behavior, and it's looking to be surprisingly primitive.

Not a Bug: Cyberpunk Deletes Idling Cars, Scared Crowds : Read more

 

[ThatMouse]

A bummer for those playing this for its "open world."

 

[cryoburner]

So, given Cyberpunk's contemporaries, it’s easy to understand why some mistook this for a bug at first.

I would say that a crude, quickly thrown-together workaround for a bug, that still breaks immersion, can clearly be considered a bug itself. I'm sure that's not how the game's designers planned for NPCs to behave, as it looks clearly wrong, so the behavior is still "buggy", just in a different way from before.

 

[Jim90]

Welcome to the world of game development. Unfortunately, this is yet another indication that the developers have released the game in a significantly un-optimised state, though not sure if this behaviour is on all platforms...PC? That, or this rather crude and highly visible entity cull method was deliberate.

 

[escksu]

Welcome to the world of game development. Unfortunately, this is yet another indication that the developers have released the game in a significantly un-optimised state, though not sure if this behaviour is on all platforms...PC? That, or this rather crude and highly visible entity cull method was deliberate.

Hmm... Considering how long this game has been delayed, i am not sure what is the developer doing exactly...

 

[geogan]

Yeah, its not great is it. You look away or come back to same place and all people look different but are in same place doing the same thing. They could dedicate an entire CPU core or thread just to run some seperate AI program to handle background crowds and traffic properly - just hire an AI college graduate to do it as in independent project.

Does anyone else find also that the way the main character walks on PC is not natural? Its too fast, like he is doing a quick walking marathon or something. When some of the game characters are walking in front of him and tell you to follow them, it's hard to do, as he keeps walking faster and bumping into them. I keep having to "tap" the W key instead of holding it down to walk slowly and naturally. Did anyone test/tune this on PC keyboard controls at all? Any way to slow down the walk speed?

 

[cbruscato]

It's important to remember that a bug being widespread, or the bug having large impact on gameplay systems, does not make it intended. A recent example was that Alien: Isolation had completely disabled AI pathing, when a 1 was inadvertently flipped to a 0 in the games configuration. It is entirely possible that many things have been tuned or turned down to limit the processing power needed, because of how unoptimized its current state is. I've heard now from several games outlets that fixing bugs won't fix this game. That patches can't fix the stupid AI, driving physics, near silent NPCs, or teleporting cops. None of that is true, in fact, there may be voice lines for NPCs, or gameplay systems around NPCs, similar to Watch Dogs - that were disabled at the last minute. I've also heard people accuse them of not being able to playtest, when they were fully aware of most of the bugs out there, when the game shipped. Developers don't control release. Somewhere there is a backlog of bugs, long enough to justify 3 months of work, and 2 Patches, and they knew about that, the day the executives decided to ship it.

 

[rluker5]

I think the drivers are more realistic than GTAV. I see idiots like them on the road all of the time. The completely aware driver that lets the speeder through is the exception to the rule, most of the time they will block you and will totally stop if you ding their car. And lines like that build up all of the time with an open lane right next to it. Stupid, but true. You just have to drive more like in real life Guy stopped in front on his phone or something should put on his flashers though.

And the bulk of npcs haver always been filler in every game. They aren't online multiplayers or anything.

 

[AtrociKitty]

I've also heard people accuse them of not being able to playtest, when they were fully aware of most of the bugs out there, when the game shipped. Developers don't control release. Somewhere there is a backlog of bugs, long enough to justify 3 months of work, and 2 Patches, and they knew about that, the day the executives decided to ship it.

This might fly as an excuse for other games, but not for one that has been in development for at least 7 years.

 

[thepersonwithaface45]

This might fly as an excuse for other games, but not for one that has been in development for at least 7 years.

why not?

 

[kyzarvs]

why not?

Because simple stuff like the crowd and driver AI was done better in San Andreas, let alone GTA5?

 

[warezme]

These NPC's aren't all that different from the ones in Witcher 3 if you think about. They are just better looking and more diverse but behave the same. We didn't complain or just got used to them because the game was so in depth and had a good story for the main character. Besides there is always the take their clothes of mod at some point. I'm sure that will bring back all the haters back at some point.

 

[mwryder55]

Because simple stuff like the crowd and driver AI was done better in San Andreas, let alone GTA5?

But the game is not about driving or crowds, they are just part of the background.

 

[Giroro]

Last night I realized there was an "athleticism" skill bar with 0XP that, as far as I could figure, could only be leveled up by punching npcs.
What I learned, is that you can punch any number of non-enemy npc as many times as you want, and nothing bad will happen so long as they don't die. If you start punching an npc, they'll always cower and take it until you stop, and then they'll run away.
The weird part is, every other npc in the area reacts to you punching one npc one time in the exact same way as they react to a major shootout - which means most npcs will duck and cover... Which is very unrealistic, but I guess makes it a lot easier to walk around punching each and every one of them a dozen or so times to grind out the punching skill.
But is this really intended behavior? And also is there any other way to grind that skill? Because its hopeless to try punching actual enemies, and the xp builds up incredibly slowly.

 

[thepersonwithaface45]

Because simple stuff like the crowd and driver AI was done better in San Andreas, let alone GTA5?

you're comparing apples to oranges when it comes to developer

 

[Giroro]

But the game is not about driving or crowds, they are just part of the background.

If CDPR didn't want their customers to judge Cyberpunk as an open world game, then they shouldn't have spent years selling it as an open world game.

And it is an open world, the problem is it doesn't even fully meet the expectations of what was on the market 8 years ago when they would have been putting the engine together. It's like the problem Bethesda had with Fallout 76, the engine was in no way designed for that type of game, but nobody wanted to go back and start from scratch to "do it right". So bandaids were put onto bandaids, with every fix making future fixes exponentially harder until they wound up with a sticky mess.
Maybe they'll eventually get some major fixes in place for Cyberpunk to at least getbto the point where the npcs behave at least isn't actively distracting... But I have a feeling their backend is so messed up that it will take them several months, if not longer. Because as it stands in my experience playing, the game isn't even consistently able to recognized that a ragdolled enemy with 0hp is "dead". Something behind the scenes has got to be seriously tangled and overcomplicated for that kind of thing to slip through the cracks.
I hope the developers get the chance to go back and fundamentally rewrite the flawed systems before they start cranking out sequels. Or, I guess, before they add multiplayer in 2022.

 

[Giroro]

you're comparing apples to oranges when it comes to developer

If anything CDPR is more like Volition... Who made 2.5 open world games where you could beat up cyber-ninjas with a phallus and... Actually almost everything else Cyberpunk 2077 has, and more... Except for the depreciated RPG and loot systems.

 

[cbruscato]

This might fly as an excuse for other games, but not for one that has been in development for at least 7 years.

First of all I'd like to address some misconceptions. This game was not even conceptualized 7 years ago. It was merely announced in 2012, long before development actually began. Development of this game started in 2016, at the concept stage. Until then, everyone they had was working on the DLC for Witcher 3, and they explained this to investors. Second I'd like to confirm some of my early thoughts from CDPR directly, in reply to some others in this thread. This snippet was taken from the investor's call they held on Monday, and directly addresses the AI and NPC behavior as "bugs."

INVESTOR: Thank you very much for taking the time....The first would be this: are the patches purely focused on performance and fixing bugs, or are you also looking to improve the gameplay in some ways – for example, the AI has been criticized [muffled] the NPC behaviors.

CDPR: So, for the first question – whether we’re focusing just on technicalities or gameplay elements; things like AI – for example. To be honest – these are the same for us, from the production standpoint AI and NPC behavior fall within the general category of bugs, so if I can give you an answer – I think it does actually include that as well.

The entire AI system in this game is currently suffering from bugs, not lack of implementation - and CDPR has directly stated to investors that it will be addressed before February.

 

[MorganPike]

Looking for problems. I've played for 20hrs so far and I haven't noticed the vehicle and crowd issues you're talking about. Do they exist? I'm sure they do, but I'm busy following the story and completing quests, and having a lot of fun doing that I might add.

Do bugs exist? Sure they do, in quantity and they can be very irritating. I even have a broken quest. But I don't waste my time looking for trouble. Some people just want to look for things to complain about and nothing anyone ever says or does is ever going to change that.

I've even considered turning crowd density down because there are so many people in the way while I'm trying to run around getting things done. Not because of their behavior.

 

[kyzarvs]

you're comparing apples to oranges when it comes to developer

I'm comparing expectations of an open-world game. The developer is irrelevant to the expectation. If you've been building it up as an open-world immersive game, you get compared to others in the same category.

I'm actually re-running through San Andreas at the moment. Peds talk to each other and CJ and you have the option to reply, traffic flows, traffic crashes - drivers get out and argue with each other, sometimes the police intervene. If they do and there's a fight an ambulance or fire truck will show up. If you annoy another driver they may chase you. Events instigated by you and the AI resolve rather than just stopping.

None of that behaviour is required. But that is all content that helps make an environment feel alive - I have no dramas with the 15+ year old graphics, the immersion and the story is superb. I don't see anything wrong with expecting the same level of depth in a game that's released in 2020, regardless of who the developer is. Even Sleeping Dogs does it better and that's... 6 years old from memory?

 

[thepersonwithaface45]

I'm comparing expectations of an open-world game. The developer is irrelevant to the expectation. If you've been building it up as an open-world immersive game, you get compared to others in the same category.

I'm actually re-running through San Andreas at the moment. Peds talk to each other and CJ and you have the option to reply, traffic flows, traffic crashes - drivers get out and argue with each other, sometimes the police intervene. If they do and there's a fight an ambulance or fire truck will show up. If you annoy another driver they may chase you. Events instigated by you and the AI resolve rather than just stopping.

None of that behaviour is required. But that is all content that helps make an environment feel alive - I have no dramas with the 15+ year old graphics, the immersion and the story is superb. I don't see anything wrong with expecting the same level of depth in a game that's released in 2020, regardless of who the developer is. Even Sleeping Dogs does it better and that's... 6 years old from memory?

your expectations should be based off previous work cdpr has done, but you can base your expectations off other developers if you'd like. I learned my lesson with expectations with fallout 4 and borderlands 3.

 

[husker]

I read a really good book that was written 100 years ago. Then I read a really bad book that was written this year. Any questions?