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How about we remove the ability for these to occur?

Having a single 13 headed hydra in a level is bad enough...let alone an entire
pit popping up. I'm personally surprised with the amount of hydras I have seen
in Angband that Morgoth hasnt been displaced as ruler by Kavlax to tell you the
truth.

--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au>:
> How about we remove the ability for these to occur?

I second that.

The last levels have been like that:

hydra pit
hydra pit
quest: stronghold
hydra pit
quest: stronghold
[-repeat-]

Throw in some small vaults in the ordinary levels with the hydra pits.
If there's no vault in the level I leave immediately. Furthermore none
of these vaults gave me any useful drops[1].

> Having a single 13 headed hydra in a level is bad enough...let alone
> an entire pit popping up. I'm personally surprised with the amount
> of hydras I have seen in Angband that Morgoth hasnt been displaced
> as ruler by Kavlax to tell you the truth.


Ralf

[1] Not that I could complain about my equipment, but I only find it
in strongholds or get it as rewards. Last reward was Boots of
Feanor for clearing a demon stronghold at 2550ft. It's the first
time I get them! *biggest grin I ever had while playing *band*.
 
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Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au>:
> How about we remove the ability for these to occur?

I second that.

Level-scum is and was always off, the last levels have been like that:

hydra pit
hydra pit
quest: stronghold
hydra pit
quest: stronghold
[-repeat-]

Throw in some small vaults in the ordinary levels with the hydra pits.
If there's no vault in the level I leave immediately. Furthermore none
of these vaults gave me any useful drops[1].

> Having a single 13 headed hydra in a level is bad enough...let alone
> an entire pit popping up. I'm personally surprised with the amount
> of hydras I have seen in Angband that Morgoth hasnt been displaced
> as ruler by Kavlax to tell you the truth.


Ralf

[1] Not that I could complain about my equipment, but I only find it
in strongholds or get it as rewards. Last reward was Boots of
Feanor for clearing a demon stronghold at 2550ft. It's the first
time I get them! *biggest grin I ever had while playing *band*.
 
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"Ralf Arens" <ralfs_spam-sammlung@iei.tu-clausthal.de> wrote in message
news:20050413101420@ralf.my-fqdn.de...
> Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au>:
> > How about we remove the ability for these to occur?
>
> I second that.
>
> Level-scum is and was always off, the last levels have been like that:
>
> hydra pit
> hydra pit
> quest: stronghold
> hydra pit
> quest: stronghold
> [-repeat-]
>
> Throw in some small vaults in the ordinary levels with the hydra pits.
> If there's no vault in the level I leave immediately. Furthermore none
> of these vaults gave me any useful drops[1].
>

I think hydra quests are so common because there just aren't enough new
monsters at the lower levels to keep variety in the quests.

As for the pits/nests being so common, in theory they shouldn't be any much
more common than giant pits or dragon pits at the lower levels. But I have
heard from so many people that they are too common, I am starting to wonder
if there is some other factor involved. Maybe because there are more OOD
hydras, the level feeling is increased more for a hydra pit than the other
type of pit, and with autoscum on a hydra pit/nest is accepted more often
than the other ones..

I will look into it a little bit more, because I never intended for you all
to be drowning in hydras. I just wanted more variety in the deeper
monsters, but I tend to do it one letter at a time. For those not familiar
with the deeper levels of NPP, there is alot more variety of dragons as
well.

Here are segments of the code that selects the hydra pits/nests, btw:

/* Orc pit */
if ((whatpit <= 20) && (pitlevel <= 35))
{
if (one_in_(2)) return LEV_THEME_CREEPING_COIN;
else return LEV_THEME_ORC;
}

/*troll or ogre*/
else if ((whatpit <= 35) && (pitlevel <= 45))
{
if (one_in_(3)) return LEV_THEME_CAVE_DWELLER;
else if (one_in_(2)) return LEV_THEME_TROLL;
else return LEV_THEME_OGRE;
}
else if ((whatpit <= 50) && (p_ptr->depth <= 60))
{
/* Hound, youngdragon, or hydra pit */
if (one_in_(3)) return LEV_THEME_HOUND;
else if (one_in_(2)) return LEV_THEME_HYDRA;
else return LEV_THEME_DRAGON_YOUNG;
}

/* Giant pit */
else if ((whatpit <= 60) && (p_ptr->depth <= 80)) return LEV_THEME_GIANT;


And part of the next code.....

if ((whatnest <= 25) && (nestlevel <= 35))
{
/*coins, jelly, or kobolds/yeeks/orcs*/
if (one_in_(3)) return LEV_THEME_CREEPING_COIN;
else if (one_in_(2)) return LEV_THEME_JELLY;
else return LEV_THEME_ORC_NAGA_YEEK_KOBOLD;
}

/*hydras or young dragons*/
else if (whatnest <= 50)
{
if (one_in_(3)) return LEV_THEME_CAVE_DWELLER;
else if (one_in_(2)) return LEV_THEME_DRAGON_YOUNG;
else return LEV_THEME_HYDRA;
}

/*Animals or humanoids*/
else if (whatnest <=75)
{
if (one_in_(2)) return LEV_THEME_ANIMAL;
else return LEV_THEME_HUMANOID;
}

/*Monster nest (undead) */
else if (whatnest <=95) return LEV_THEME_UNDEAD;

/*Ancient Dragon Nest*/
else


They aren't intended to be that common.....

-Jeff
 
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On 2005-04-13 10:15:18, Ralf Arens <ralfs_spam-sammlung@iei.tu-clausthal.de>
wrote:

> Severoth :
> > How about we remove the ability for these to occur?
>
> I second that.
>
> Level-scum is and was always off, the last levels have been like that:
>
> hydra pit
> hydra pit
> quest: stronghold
> hydra pit
> quest: stronghold
> [-repeat-]
>
> Throw in some small vaults in the ordinary levels with the hydra pits.
> If there's no vault in the level I leave immediately. Furthermore none
> of these vaults gave me any useful drops[1].
>
> > Having a single 13 headed hydra in a level is bad enough...let alone
> > an entire pit popping up. I'm personally surprised with the amount
> > of hydras I have seen in Angband that Morgoth hasnt been displaced
> > as ruler by Kavlax to tell you the truth.
>
>
> Ralf
>
> [1] Not that I could complain about my equipment, but I only find it
> in strongholds or get it as rewards. Last reward was Boots of
> Feanor for clearing a demon stronghold at 2550ft. It's the first
> time I get them! *biggest grin I ever had while playing *band*.
>

Ahhh...damnit RNG has just balanced out some loving I have received with a very
nasty quest.

Kill 21 10 headed hydras...will give it a shot but only because my character has
+17 speed.



--
"Omnia mors aequat"
"Death levels all distinctions"
 
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>But I have heard from so many people that they are too common,
>I am starting to wonder if there is some other factor involved.
>Maybe because there are more OOD hydras, the level feeling is
>increased more for a hydra pit than the other type of pit, and
>with autoscum on a hydra pit/nest is accepted more often than the
>other ones..


Yup. Conditional probability of "good" given Hydra pit is near unity.
Conditional probability of good given 'd' pit is just the modest gain
of "given a pit." This effect will go away after dlev > 58, where
13-head Hydras are not considered OOD. Maybe I need to dive 12
levels...
 
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In article <aaqdnVPhyN2t3sDfRVn-iw@comcast.com>,
nppangband@spam.spam.spam.spam says...
>
> "Ralf Arens" <ralfs_spam-sammlung@iei.tu-clausthal.de> wrote in message
> news:20050413101420@ralf.my-fqdn.de...
> > Severoth <severoth@bigpond.net.au>:
> > > How about we remove the ability for these to occur?
> >
> > I second that.
> >
> > Level-scum is and was always off, the last levels have been like that:
> >
> > hydra pit
> > hydra pit
> > quest: stronghold
> > hydra pit
> > quest: stronghold
> > [-repeat-]
> >
> > Throw in some small vaults in the ordinary levels with the hydra pits.
> > If there's no vault in the level I leave immediately. Furthermore none
> > of these vaults gave me any useful drops[1].
> >
>
> I think hydra quests are so common because there just aren't enough new
> monsters at the lower levels to keep variety in the quests.
>
> As for the pits/nests being so common, in theory they shouldn't be any much
> more common than giant pits or dragon pits at the lower levels. But I have
> heard from so many people that they are too common, I am starting to wonder
> if there is some other factor involved. Maybe because there are more OOD
> hydras, the level feeling is increased more for a hydra pit than the other
> type of pit, and with autoscum on a hydra pit/nest is accepted more often
> than the other ones..
>
> I will look into it a little bit more, because I never intended for you all
> to be drowning in hydras. I just wanted more variety in the deeper
> monsters, but I tend to do it one letter at a time. For those not familiar
> with the deeper levels of NPP, there is alot more variety of dragons as
> well.

You might want to look at the pit (and special room) generation code
in Sangband (generate.c). It seems to offer pretty fine-grained control
over what sorts (and what frequencies) of pits are generated.

Larry
 
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Larry Bassel wrote:
> You might want to look at the pit (and special room) generation code
> in Sangband (generate.c). It seems to offer pretty fine-grained control
> over what sorts (and what frequencies) of pits are generated.

Autoscum seems to be the main problem here, and it will overrule any
fine-grained control by discarding the levels without hydra pits. ;)

--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
 
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Polarhound wrote:
> Severoth wrote:

>> On another note I found the ideal way to deal with Hydra pits.
>>
>> Just save up or Banishment scrolls you get. :)
>
> A few ?oSummon Pet could work wonders too.. Make them breathe on each
> other.

Those doesn't exist in NPP.

Timo Pietilä