[NPP] Iron shots breaking

magnate

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In another thread somebody posted that they had dived into the NPP
source and discovered that arrows break 35% of the time, bolts 25% and
shots only 10%.

I am less than halfway through clearing a creeping coin pit at 600'.
(On a side note, I have already killed 24 creeping sapphire gems, which
are 350' OoD and at +5 speed, which is a bit steep for a pit where
usually only the nine central baddies are more than 200' OoD.)

I have fired several hundred shots, and have lost all my ammo (I came
down with four stacks of less than 99). I haven't kept count exactly
but on quite a high sample rate I estimate shots are breaking about 20%
of the time, perhaps 25%.

Can somebody confirm or deny this discrepancy with the source?

CC
(P.S. Kelumen died and I can't download the bloody savefile in IE6 so I
won't be able to try the comp again until I get home next week, so I'm
trying a new hobbit rogue with quests)
 
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I'll tack the code on the end of this post. In summary, you are correct
that shots break more often than 10% -- it's 25%.

Arrows break 35% of the time.
Bolts and shots, 25%.

This is the exact same as Vanilla 3.0.5, by the way.

static int breakage_chance(const object_type *o_ptr)
{
/* Examine the item type */
switch (o_ptr->tval)
{
/* Always break */
case TV_FLASK:
case TV_POTION:
case TV_BOTTLE:
case TV_FOOD:
case TV_JUNK:
{
return (100);
}

/* Often break */
case TV_LITE:
case TV_SCROLL:
case TV_SKELETON:
{
return (50);
}

/* Sometimes break */
case TV_ARROW:
{
return (35);
}

/* Sometimes break */
case TV_WAND:
case TV_SHOT:
case TV_BOLT:
case TV_SPIKE:
{
return (25);
}
}

/* Rarely break */
return (10);
}
 
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magnate wrote:
> In another thread somebody posted that they had dived into the NPP
> source and discovered that arrows break 35% of the time, bolts 25% and
> shots only 10%.
>
> I am less than halfway through clearing a creeping coin pit at 600'.
> (On a side note, I have already killed 24 creeping sapphire gems, which
> are 350' OoD and at +5 speed, which is a bit steep for a pit where
> usually only the nine central baddies are more than 200' OoD.)
>
> I have fired several hundred shots, and have lost all my ammo (I came
> down with four stacks of less than 99). I haven't kept count exactly
> but on quite a high sample rate I estimate shots are breaking about 20%
> of the time, perhaps 25%.
>
> Can somebody confirm or deny this discrepancy with the source?

I don't have the source to look at, but I can confirm that it does FEEL
like a lot more than 10% is being lost.

Iron shot doesn't seem like the type of thing that would break so
easily. As opposed to arrows or bolts with are often part-wood and
fragile, iron shots are dense balls of metal. Thus, they shouldn't
really fall apart anywhere near as much.

Personally, I don't trust the percentages much for anything.. Not after
casting a 95% failure rate spell in Pos 20 times in a row successfully
then failing 15 times in a row on a 10% failure spell.
 
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Varios people write:
[ shot break 25% of the time ]

And you are correct, I was wrong. That doesn't mean I don't think it
should break less often, since it does less damage, and weighs more...
The power of wishful thinking, I guess.

Pretty clear that heavy xbow of shots is the way to go for anyone
except rangers. Unless you find Buckland, but not Haradrim.
 
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On 14 Apr 2005 04:51:27 -0700, magnate wrote:

(snip)
>(P.S. Kelumen died and I can't download the bloody savefile in IE6 so I
>won't be able to try the comp again until I get home next week, so I'm
>trying a new hobbit rogue with quests)

Hi magnate,

I can mail you a copy if you wish. Is the e-mail adress in the headers
real or a spam-catcher?

Best, Hugo
--
Your sig line (k) was stolen! (more)
There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)
 

magnate

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Hugo - thanks for your kind offer - the email address was valid many
years ago and I kept it as a spam black hole. Grateful if you could
email me a copy to chris dot carr at cmps dot gsi dot gov dot uk. (Have
spambots learned that form of address yet I wonder?)

Thanks.

CC
 

magnate

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Ralf Arens wrote:
> magnate <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk>:

> > I am less than halfway through clearing a creeping coin pit at
600'.

> Please let me know if you make it. I despaired on treasure pits as a
> low level char and don't take quests for them.

I did, but only just. I used up all my ammo, all my healing, all my
?PD, and would definitely not have managed it if I hadn't found a War
Hammer Of The Elements, which happened to be poison (giving rpois),
shortly before the quest.

Of the 95 coin piles at 600 feet, 27 were sapphire gems (950'), 15 were
opal gems (800'), 21 were mithril coins (650') - all of these were
tougher than me in one-on-one melee, even with rpois, let alone two- or
three-on-one. Of course they fell to my shots, but these ran out. The
pit was in a really awkward position, where I could only approach it
from the south, meaning I couldn't draw off 5 at a time from the east
or west. The sapphire gems were particularly deadly because of their
speed (and they hit hard!).

I can see why the pits are so tough, because I did end up 27k better
off, but for them to be doable by rogues sling ammo needs to be lighter
or break less often. A quiver would help too.

I went for a level quest next, and have arrived at 700' to find that I
have 267 ogres left to kill!! No idea how I'm going to do that with
only one trap and one shot per round. I have at least brought TONS of
ammo this time!

CC
 
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magnate <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk>:
[...]
> I am less than halfway through clearing a creeping coin pit at 600'.

Please let me know if you make it. I despaired on treasure pits as a
low level char and don't take quests for them.

[...]


Ralf
 
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On 15 Apr 2005 03:01:13 -0700, magnate wrote:

>Hugo - thanks for your kind offer - the email address was valid many
>years ago and I kept it as a spam black hole. Grateful if you could
>email me a copy to chris dot carr at cmps dot gsi dot gov dot uk. (Have
>spambots learned that form of address yet I wonder?)
>
>Thanks.
>
>CC

Hi CC,

You've got mail!

Best, Hugo
--
Your sig line (k) was stolen! (more)
There is a puff of smoke!

(Remove NO and SPAM to get my e-mail address)
 
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magnate <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk>:
> Ralf Arens wrote:
>> magnate <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk>:

>>> I am less than halfway through clearing a creeping coin pit at
>>> 600'.

>> Please let me know if you make it. I despaired on treasure pits as a
>> low level char and don't take quests for them.

> I did, but only just. I used up all my ammo, all my healing, all my
> ?PD, and would definitely not have managed it if I hadn't found a War
> Hammer Of The Elements, which happened to be poison (giving rpois),
> shortly before the quest.

OK, I never had rpois at such an early state in NPP. But I haven't
played many chars, approx. four.

[...]

> I can see why the pits are so tough, because I did end up 27k better
> off,

Is it really worth it? Find two or three good ego-weapons and you've
got the same. You probably won't get killed that easily or risk a
failed quest.

> but for them to be doable by rogues sling ammo needs to be lighter
> or break less often. A quiver would help too.

Would it be possible/easier or sensible for any other class?

> I went for a level quest next, and have arrived at 700' to find that I
> have 267 ogres left to kill!!

That's the usual amount. But it's hard that you've got ogres. I
started with minor demons, which can be dangerous because of tengus
which teleport you around, and lesser cave dwellers, i.e. orcs and
yeeks.

> No idea how I'm going to do that with only one trap

One trap should suffice, just dig your way backwards through the
dungeon and place it before you, everytime it is destroyed -> take
some wands of stone-to-mud with (or similar).

> and one shot per round. I have at least brought TONS of ammo this
> time!

Themed levels consist of one big room in the middle and smaller rooms
and passages around it. Many ways are blocked by rubble. My tactic is
too clear the passages and small rooms first. I try to remove as
little rubble as possible.

After I cleared everything but the big room I teleport there, teleport
some monsters out of it and teleport myself out of. Then I hunt down
the teleported monsters. [-repeat-]

So I usually take some rods of tele-other or wands of tele-other with
me.


HTH,
Ralf
 
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Ralf Arens <ralfs_spam-sammlung@iei.tu-clausthal.de> wrote:
>magnate <chrisc@dbass.demon.co.uk>:
[treasure pits]
>> but for them to be doable by rogues sling ammo needs to be lighter
>> or break less often. A quiver would help too.
>
>Would it be possible/easier or sensible for any other class?

HE Mages in NPP can do $ pits at 600', as long as you're paying *lots*
of attention. It needs liberal use of Detect Monster, followed with
Fire Bolt to actually kill them. It's an extremely time-consuming
process, of course.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
My roguelike games page (including my BSD-licenced roguelike) can be found at:
http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~mpread/roguelikes.html
Good riddance to the Pope.
 
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On 2005-04-14 08:38:19 -0700, Polarhound <Polarhound@comcast.net> said:

>
>
> Iron shot doesn't seem like the type of thing that would break so
> easily. As opposed to arrows or bolts with are often part-wood and
> fragile, iron shots are dense balls of metal. Thus, they shouldn't
> really fall apart anywhere near as much.
>


Iron shots may not "fall apart", but I would think it would be
reasonable (and realistic) that in a dimly lit dungeon a good amount
would disappear amidst the rubble. Dense balls of steel look a lot
like rocks!

And of course, all missle weapons stand a good chance of getting
lodged in the body (or ideally, the corpse) of their monster-target.

But if there's a petition to reduce the rate of spoilage with shots,
sign me up. Like someone said in another thread, reduced breakage
would even out the lack of frequency and added weight.

J. Bancock * JengBand