Nvidia CEO On Intel's GPU, AMD Partnership, And Raja Koduri

[bit_user]

Intel and Microsoft are famous for abandoning technology.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I've been a PC builder with Intel/Microsoft builds for 20 years. I can only recall one time where I got abandoned in a build by Intel: when I went with a RAMBUS memory Pentium IV build. In a matter of six months, they introduced DDR memory support with a new chipset and I was left behind for a memory upgrade path.

And as one who has had every Windows OS starting with 3.11 buying a Compaq 486sx PC in 1992, I have never felt "abandoned" by them. Of course, I'm one of those who expects software to advance and accept the fact that an 8 year old OS is outdated.

That's the thing - you seem to be focusing on Intel PC business and as a user of Microsoft's OSes. Intel has done quite a bit outside of the PC realm, including things like communications processors, their cell phone SoC business, various workstation and mainframe processors, etc. that they've walked away from. Did you know they even had their own line of ARM CPUs (StrongARM) that they acquired from DEC?

Microsoft has gone through many software frameworks, APIs, embedded OSes, etc. that they've likewise dropped. I know a die-hard Windows programmer who got burned over, and over, and over again by Microsoft's shifting Windows Mobile strategy, back when it was still a going concern.

You guys can both be right, you know? He's just looking at these things from a different perspective than what you've seen and experienced.

 

[bit_user]

That douche is just advertising his own GPUs whenever gets the change. Hey Mr Huang, I won't be buying your chips, ever. I'd rather get Intel's GPUs if AMD dies.

Allow me to direct your attention to the beginning of the first sentence of the article:

Nvidia held its 3Q 2017 earnings call today ...

If a CEO can't even effectively pitch his company and his products to its investors, he should (and usually will) be replaced. Investor relations is literally the primary responsibility of a big company CEO.

That said, to call Huang bombastic occasionally verges on understatement.

 

[bit_user]

Huang prominently repeated the statement that "We are a one architecture company."

While that has nice sounding implications, it does mean a few other things:
* We are almost a one-size-fits-all company. If our tech doesn't work for you, you should reconsider what you're doing.
* We are in deep trouble if something else comes out and it can beat everything we have in the pipeline for the next 5 years, and what we have in the early stages for years beyond.

Perhaps you're interpreting "architecture" too narrowly. First, Tegra shows how well their GPUs can scale down to fit a low power envelope, and focusing on power efficiency has enabled their high-end GPUs to scale up to deliver impressive performance within desktop & server power/cooling constraints. Secondly, they have forked their GPUs with different features for different markets. In Pascal, they equipped the P100 with fast fp16 support, and the smaller GPUs with fast int8 support. Volta continued this trend by adding a tensor processing unit in the V100 that will almost surely be absent from their consumer GPUs, but will grace future models of their embedded GPUs.

So, even within this "one architecture" approach (and hey, what about Project Denver - doesn't that count as an architecture?), I think we can still see quite a bit of flexibility.

In large part, this is just a dig at Intel. Nvidia isn't realistically going to break into FPGAs or x86. The big question is really whether they're at risk of getting edged out of machine learning by purpose-built chips, and whether they can mount an adequate defense with features like their TPU. I think this is the question their investors are asking, and that's probably what he's speaking to.

 

[Rexer]

No worries. Competition helps the market and it's only better for us. The more companies the better. What worse is a monopoly and pricing jumps up or stays stagnantly high (aka Microsoft Winblows 10). Office aint no bargain, and with Comcast, Time Warner and Verison, we aint getting any deals from 'the only guy in town'.

 

[bit_user]

What worse is a monopoly and pricing jumps up or stays stagnantly high

Yeah, so I'm surprised nobody's talking about this figure:

Gross margins weighed in at 59.7%

Pretty high, for a semiconductor company. I imagine if Vega had really "brought the heat", in a more figurative than literal sense, we might've seen some serious price drops. That, and if mining weren't a thing.

 

[shrapnel_indie]

Huang prominently repeated the statement that "We are a one architecture company."

While that has nice sounding implications, it does mean a few other things:
* We are almost a one-size-fits-all company. If our tech doesn't work for you, you should reconsider what you're doing.
* We are in deep trouble if something else comes out and it can beat everything we have in the pipeline for the next 5 years, and what we have in the early stages for years beyond.

Perhaps you're interpreting "architecture" too narrowly. First, Tegra shows how well their GPUs can scale down to fit a low power envelope, and focusing on power efficiency has enabled their high-end GPUs to scale up to deliver impressive performance within desktop & server power/cooling constraints. Secondly, they have forked their GPUs with different features for different markets. In Pascal, they equipped the P100 with fast fp16 support, and the smaller GPUs with fast int8 support. Volta continued this trend by adding a tensor processing unit in the V100 that will almost surely be absent from their consumer GPUs, but will grace future models of their embedded GPUs.

So, even within this "one architecture" approach (and hey, what about Project Denver - doesn't that count as an architecture?), I think we can still see quite a bit of flexibility.

In large part, this is just a dig at Intel. Nvidia isn't realistically going to break into FPGAs or x86. The big question is really whether they're at risk of getting edged out of machine learning by purpose-built chips, and whether they can mount an adequate defense with features like their TPU. I think this is the question their investors are asking, and that's probably what he's speaking to.

You may be right. Tegra, the ARM processor itself though is a completely different architecture. I don't know who would have any x86 IP (or x64 for that matter) outside of Intel or AMD either. (used to have at least one other legit choice, but they disappeared before x64 Architecture became widespread: Cyrix). Also note that most of the others you mention are just variations of the current core architecture they are using or have coming down the pipeline (Volta, Pascal, Keplar, etc.)... I do have to say though, unless they have totally written off Tegra, saying they are a one architecture company is a bit of a misnomer.

 

[shrapnel_indie]

What worse is a monopoly and pricing jumps up or stays stagnantly high

Yeah, so I'm surprised nobody's talking about this figure:

Gross margins weighed in at 59.7%

Pretty high, for a semiconductor company. I imagine if Vega had really "brought the heat", in a more figurative than literal sense, we might've seen some serious price drops. That, and if mining weren't a thing.

I think mining has been the major factor this time around although Vega56 has made NVidia uncomfortable enough that they had no choice but to release the 1070Ti after making initial small price adjustments.

 

[sykozis]

You may be right. Tegra, the ARM processor itself though is a completely different architecture. I don't know who would have any x86 IP (or x64 for that matter) outside of Intel or AMD either. (used to have at least one other legit choice, but they disappeared before x64 Architecture became widespread: Cyrix). Also note that most of the others you mention are just variations of the current core architecture they are using or have coming down the pipeline (Volta, Pascal, Keplar, etc.)... I do have to say though, unless they have totally written off Tegra, saying they are a one architecture company is a bit of a misnomer.

VIA has an x86 license but they only compete in the embedded market. There are other companies as well, but none of them produce CPUs.

 

[bit_user]

You may be right. Tegra, the ARM processor itself though is a completely different architecture. I don't know who would have any x86 IP (or x64 for that matter) outside of Intel or AMD either. (used to have at least one other legit choice, but they disappeared before x64 Architecture became widespread: Cyrix). Also note that most of the others you mention are just variations of the current core architecture they are using or have coming down the pipeline (Volta, Pascal, Keplar, etc.)... I do have to say though, unless they have totally written off Tegra, saying they are a one architecture company is a bit of a misnomer.

I think we're saying basically the same thing. Their ARM cores are definitely a different architecture, but the rest of their GPUs are a single architecture lineage.

Anyway, Via is another x86 vendor, and it seems they're still around. I'm surprised nobody has snapped them up to capitalize on their x86 IP. Maybe being a Taiwanese company puts them out of reach of the big Chinese SEOs. According to this, they actually ended up with most of Cyrix (hmmm, and I had thought AMD got it...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Technologies

 

[bit_user]

I think mining has been the major factor this time around although Vega56 has made NVidia uncomfortable enough that they had no choice but to release the 1070Ti after making initial small price adjustments.

I don't know whether the 1070 Ti was released more for mining or to answer the Vega 56. Any thoughts?

 

[Rexer]

I think mining has been the major factor this time around although Vega56 has made NVidia uncomfortable enough that they had no choice but to release the 1070Ti after making initial small price adjustments.

I don't know whether the 1070 Ti was released more for mining or to answer the Vega 56. Any thoughts?

This fall I seen mining cards offered in '6 pk cnt, minimum buy of 2'. Somewhat depressing to say the least. Maybe they've been around but it's the first for me to see them in mining packs. When I think about it, I've only seen cards lower than 1070ti and 56 offered this way. Most likely because 1070ti is new release. 56 seems to be selling well. Just might be a new staple for mining.

 

[sykozis]

You may be right. Tegra, the ARM processor itself though is a completely different architecture. I don't know who would have any x86 IP (or x64 for that matter) outside of Intel or AMD either. (used to have at least one other legit choice, but they disappeared before x64 Architecture became widespread: Cyrix). Also note that most of the others you mention are just variations of the current core architecture they are using or have coming down the pipeline (Volta, Pascal, Keplar, etc.)... I do have to say though, unless they have totally written off Tegra, saying they are a one architecture company is a bit of a misnomer.

I think we're saying basically the same thing. Their ARM cores are definitely a different architecture, but the rest of their GPUs are a single architecture lineage.

Anyway, Via is another x86 vendor, and it seems they're still around. I'm surprised nobody has snapped them up to capitalize on their x86 IP. Maybe being a Taiwanese company puts them out of reach of the big Chinese SEOs. According to this, they actually ended up with most of Cyrix (hmmm, and I had thought AMD got it...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Technologies

VIA is still around but they specifically target the embedded market these days. They did initially attempt to remain in the consumer market, but failed to be competitive. Their embedded CPU's are reportedly very power friendly, but lack the kind of performance we see from products released by Intel and AMD. It's really sad. I think the market would have been better off had VIA been able to compete.

As for another company buying VIA's CPU division, I doubt we'll ever see that. It's my understanding that VIA's x86 license is non-transferable, but that information may be wrong. Being a chipset maker, VIA had an x86 license prior to the purchase of Cyrix.