Nvidia Driver - Do I Even Need It?

[Cableaddict]

In my live-music (mobile) PC rigs, I use the simplest GPU's I can find. I don't need any kind of GPU power at all, and weight / heat are serious issues. So, all three rigs currently use the MSI NX8600GTS. It does the job just fine.

Recently I've been trying to get my HW buffer lower, in part but bringing down the DPC latency. My average latency is crazy-low, at about 9 us, but I get large spikes form the NVIDIA Windows Kernel ode Driver.

I have read that some versions of this driver are known to cause DPC latency problems, so naturally I'd like to try changing or removing it, hence this post:
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1: Do I even NEED this driver? Is it a generic driver, installed with Windows10, or is this the driver actually used by my MSI card? My device manager shows "NVIDIA 8400GS" and nothing that specifically says "MSI."

However, there is an "unknown device" listed, and I can't account for it, unless it's that MSI gpu. Could this be the MSI driver, even though it's not listed under "display Adapters?"
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2: If this is the correct driver, then how would I "upgrade" it? I went to the NVIDIA site, but did not even see MSI listed. I DO see various "Geforce" listings, so I clicked on "Geforce 8 series" and then "GeForce 8400." This took me to Win10 version 342 (slightly newer than what I have now.)

Is this the correct driver?
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3: Suppose I install the v. 342 driver, above, and my DPC spikes get WORSE. Hw can I get my CURRENT driver back?


-THX.

 

[skit75]

Give Nvidia's driver a try. If you are unhappy with the performance, MSI is likely hosting a driver for it on their website as well.

 

[Cableaddict]

Give Nvidia's driver a try. If you are unhappy with the performance, MSI is likely hosting a driver for it on their website as well.

Thanks, Skit.
- but this card is so old, the last version on the MSI site is for Windows7 ! I do see now that it is indeed an NVIDIA driver, so at least that question is answered.

I still want to know how to "save" the current driver, just in case.

Also: The old driver on the MSI site says "GeForce 8400 GS" - but there is no "GS" on the name in my device driver.
That driver had been installed automatically. Is it incorrect? Should this concern me?

(Maybe both drivers are actually identical?)

 

[RCFProd]

MSI doesn't make drivers for those graphics cards, they just redesign around the ''PCB'', mainly just designing their own cooling system and heatsink for the GPU. However the ''PCB'' remains 100% NVIDIA, and the drivers should be 100% NVIDIA. So you're going to need Nvidia drivers anyways.

 

[skit75]

I thought they used to repackage the Nvidia driver with some MSI specific interface stuff but maybe that all went away when they released Afterburner.

 

[Cableaddict]

Thanks, guys.

So again, can someone tell me how to "save" my current driver, just in case?

 

[skit75]

Go into Device Manager and look at your Display Adapter properties window. There should be a tab called version that says what version your are using right now then, try to find that version on the internet. That might be easier than trying to find the original install package on your HDD, especially if you bought an off the shelf rig with Windows installed already because then, the driver is embedded in the install image, somewhere.

 

[Cableaddict]

Go into Device Manager and look at your Display Adapter properties window. There should be a tab called version that says what version your are using right now then, try to find that version on the internet. That might be easier than trying to find the original install package on your HDD, especially if you bought an off the shelf rig with Windows installed already because then, the driver is embedded in the install image, somewhere.

Skit, your were right. I easily found the existing driver online & downloaded it. Thanks!

All set. I'm REALLY interested to see if there's a change in DPC activity, either way.

 

[Cableaddict]

Well, an interesting result.

With the newest driver, my overall DPC latency seems to have gone down just a hair. It was already incredibly low, so this was not really a gain, but at least it didn't go UP.


however, I am now getting more frequent, and MUCH longer hard pagefaults! - And these can cause very serious dropouts.

Ughh ....
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Still the biggest offender I have is the GraphicsX driver. Is that also something that must be running? Any way to find a more well-behaved version?

 

[bystander]

Does your system have an integrated GPU? For about the last 7 years, every CPU comes with a built in IGP unless an HEDT or server CPU. Though if you are using an 8400GS, you may be with a super old system. Sadly, Windows 10 would not be recommended on such an old system.

 

[Cableaddict]

Does your system have an integrated GPU? For about the last 7 years, every CPU comes with a built in IGP unless an HEDT or server CPU. Though if you are using an 8400GS, you may be with a super old system. Sadly, Windows 10 would not be recommended on such an old system.

No built in GPU, sadly for me. I wish it did, as I only require the most basic of grapics for my live audio system, and weight is a big factor. - Hence I use that passively-cooled MSI gpu.

It's not an old system. EVGA X99 micro. AFAIK, no X99 systems have built-in graphics, due to the current chipset.

So... does this mean anything in terms of that horrible Intel Graphics Driver ? The bloody thing has pagefault read-out that look like the Rocky Mountains.

 

[bystander]

Does your system have an integrated GPU? For about the last 7 years, every CPU comes with a built in IGP unless an HEDT or server CPU. Though if you are using an 8400GS, you may be with a super old system. Sadly, Windows 10 would not be recommended on such an old system.

No built in GPU, sadly for me. I wish it did, as I only require the most basic of grapics for my live audio system, and weight is a big factor. - Hence I use that passively-cooled MSI gpu.

It's not an old system. EVGA X99 micro. AFAIK, no X99 systems have built-in graphics, due to the current chipset.

So... does this mean anything in terms of that horrible Intel Graphics Driver ? The bloody thing has pagefault read-out that look like the Rocky Mountains.

If you can afford a nice X99 system, which is the HEDT systems I referred to, just buy some low end GPU to go with it, that is current. Like a GT 710. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487220&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Video+Card+-+Nvidia-_-N82E16814487220&gclid=Cj0KEQiAvNrBBRDe3IOwzLn6_O4BEiQAmbK-DlFRrEywyDjJQU36yWRhvQWu1SCBGX344MUpuZzYx3oaAkmi8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

There comes a point in every video cards life that support is dropped, or barely supported. You've come to that point with your 8400GS. The nice thing is that new GT 710 will use far less power.

 

[Cableaddict]

Does your system have an integrated GPU? For about the last 7 years, every CPU comes with a built in IGP unless an HEDT or server CPU. Though if you are using an 8400GS, you may be with a super old system. Sadly, Windows 10 would not be recommended on such an old system.

No built in GPU, sadly for me. I wish it did, as I only require the most basic of grapics for my live audio system, and weight is a big factor. - Hence I use that passively-cooled MSI gpu.

It's not an old system. EVGA X99 micro. AFAIK, no X99 systems have built-in graphics, due to the current chipset.

So... does this mean anything in terms of that horrible Intel Graphics Driver ? The bloody thing has pagefault read-out that look like the Rocky Mountains.

If you can afford a nice X99 system, which is the HEDT systems I referred to, just buy some low end GPU to go with it, that is current. Like a GT 710. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487220&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Video+Card+-+Nvidia-_-N82E16814487220&gclid=Cj0KEQiAvNrBBRDe3IOwzLn6_O4BEiQAmbK-DlFRrEywyDjJQU36yWRhvQWu1SCBGX344MUpuZzYx3oaAkmi8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

There comes a point in every video cards life that support is dropped, or barely supported. You've come to that point with your 8400GS. The nice thing is that new GT 710 will use far less power.

Bystander, while that's a nice little GPU for the money, but -
1: It won't fit in my mATX rig as it's too wide, and
2: My current MSI works just fine.

Assuming I did find a suitable, modern fan-less card (there must be a few) how exactly would this solve my current issue, which is that I'm getting huge pagefaults from both the CURRENT NVidia driver, and the current Intel Graphics Driver?

(Serious question, as I have no idea.)

 

[bystander]

They make other versions of the same card that are single slot (the pictures look like it's single slot, even if it says dual), and they even make them low profile. Just look for one. For example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127932&cm_re=gt_710_low_profile-_-14-127-932-_-Product

The brackets to make it low profile come with it.

As far as solving your issue, they problem you have is most likely rooted in the fact you have a 10 year old card. That is ancient by tech standards. We've had 3 or 4 new Windows versions since it was sold and the support is lacking, particularly with Windows 10.

Here is a fanless, low profile, single slot card. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127933&cm_re=gt_710_low_profile-_-14-127-933-_-Product

 

[Cableaddict]

OK, that gpu will fit, and it's cheap enough to just try. (Heck, it blows away my MSI, which coast $250 back in the day!) BUT I STILL WANT TO UNDERSTAND THIS, SO AGAIN:

How exactly would this solve my current issue, which is that I'm getting huge pagefaults from both the CURRENT NVidia driver, and the current Intel Graphics Driver?

I will still have those same drivers, no? - and It's the drivers causing the pagefaults, not the card.
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## Also: Why do I have both drivers in my system? There's no onboard graphics, and surely my card doesn't need both drivers to function. What exactly does the Intel Graphics Driver (the one causing the biggest pagefaults) do?



I really, REALLY want to understand this.

 

[bystander]

The most likely cause is that the GPU isn't properly supported in Windows 10, or with your current system platform. It's a GPU which is beyond support by Nvidia directly. They tweak drivers for older GPU's in a general purpose manner, and hope it works for all of them. They do not test them with GPU's like yours. They just hope they work. It's likely a support thing.

Of course you want to make sure your current Intel drivers are up to date, along with everything else on your system.

 

[Cableaddict]

quote: "The most likely cause is that the GPU isn't properly supported in Windows 10, "


I still don't understand, at all. The old GPU is working, so it clearly is "supported." So it's "the most likely cause" of WHAT? I don't know which question you are answering.

1: Why do I have 2 drivers?

2: Why do they both (especially the Intel driver) cause such massive pagefaults?

3: How exacty would buying a newer gpu help me, in any way?

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- Hope you have time to clarify. I seriously still don't have a clue.

 

[bystander]

1) Each device should only have 1 driver/Can only have one driver.
2) Every device requires one driver to function.
3) You came here on a new system, with an ancient GPU that is no longer supported by Nvidia. That doesn't mean it won't work, but it does mean that drivers for the GPU might not work correctly, because that don't support it any longer. That also does not mean it won't work in some ways, yet might become really buggy in others.

*) If you have a 2nd unknown device that is having issues, then try and solve that issue, and ignore the GPU.